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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 187
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 June, 2018 - 03:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello - I know I posted this a little while ago, but it has disappeared from the list. I have established that the interior lights remain on due to a faulty switch in the driver's door. I think Paul (Yorke) described the procedure for testing/changing this item - would he be kind enough to repeat it please? Sorry - I don't understand why the topic has disappeared, it was only a few months ago ... oh, the car is a 1984 Spirit ECH 09680 ... thank you!
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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 188
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 June, 2018 - 03:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sod's Law again - it was only one month ago and I was looking too far down the list ... it was Paul, thanks. But I don't see any operating lever for the door switch. Exactly where should I be looking, please?
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2944
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 27 June, 2018 - 06:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

Have put the link to the original thread below just in case:

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17002/30974.html?1527427062

You may have to remove the door trim to access the switch mechanism - I have the Silver Spirit manuals on cdrom but they are 400Km away in Sydney. I should have a backup in storage here so will have a look shortly and respond accordingly.

.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2945
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 27 June, 2018 - 07:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

Have found a backup copy of the Silver Spirit parts list but do not have the manual at hand.

File MS8 has images of the door switches and MS 7 has other details you might find useful.

application/pdfMS 7
MS07.pdf (314.8 k)


application/pdfMS 8
MS08.pdf (232.5 k)


.
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 548
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 27 June, 2018 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rod, the switch is
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lucas-SMB421-34933-brake-light-switch-for-LAND-ROVER-TRIUMPH-CLASSIC-Mini/231279536628?epid=1450303914&hash=item35d955a9f4:g:KdkAAOSwBPFarjja

You need small hands to fit it ! My wife changed ours.
Mark
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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 189
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Thursday, 28 June, 2018 - 01:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello David and Mark, and thank you! I have ordered one, although I cannot see what Paul meant by an 'operating lever' - maybe a different model. I'll find out when it arrives - the total cost including delivery was only 6.99, so not bad ... it's a useful sort of switch anyway. I'm pretty sure we used to buy them for over-stroking brake chambers back in the late '60s for 1/4d (one shilling and four old pence). Time marches on ...
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2951
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 28 June, 2018 - 09:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

I think Paul might have been referring to Part number UD25304 on page 2 of MS08 or UD25475 on page 3, check your car chassis number against the numbers quoted in the top LH corner of the page. This appears to be a microswitch operating lever for a microswitch mounted on another module[door lock actuator??] located in the door cavity.

STOP PRESS

See front door locking parts for your chassis number in the Parts List below. I am positive this shows the location of the module shown in MS08.


application/pdfS31
S31.pdf (474.8 k)


.
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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 190
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Thursday, 28 June, 2018 - 05:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello David - to say I'm confused is to put it mildly. Drawings pop up all over the place, all purporting to be of the same thing and all totally different. The drawing I used says categorically that it is for all Silver Spirits from chassis # 01001 to 16970 (Echo is 09680), and it's nothing like your MS08 drawing. I'm going to have to wait for the switch to arrive and then take the door apart to see what's actually there. Probably find it's nothing like either drawing ... and the problem is just a loose connection ... that would be nice ...
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2954
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 28 June, 2018 - 06:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

This is typical RRMC practice as the Crewe Drawing Office could not keep the updating of the Parts Lists and associated diagrams coinciding with changes on the assembly line especially for the Shadow and Spirit models due to the frequent changes made to use new technology and improved components which were advancing and/or changing at a rapid rate. I know in the Shadow era, parts lists and catalogues could be up to 6 changes behind what was happening on the assembly line and do not get me started on wiring diagrams as these were even worse.

Your last two sentences encapsulate what will be required of you to get a solution to your problem.

.
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Nigel Coombe
Experienced User
Username: nigel_adelaide

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2017
Posted on Thursday, 12 July, 2018 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My drivers door central locking will lock all doors with the key but when try to unlock them with key just drivers door unlocks but can unlock all doors with Key in boot or passenger door. Have had a look inside drivers door but no obvious loose wires or connections .Any advice would be great never like removing door trims more than need to . 1988 Spirit.
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gordon le feuvre
Prolific User
Username: triumph

Post Number: 257
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Friday, 13 July, 2018 - 06:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nigel,the drivers door lock should work in two stages. 1st is to lock that door only, then put some more load on key as if trying to bend it! This "springiness" should activate CDL micro switch (one for lock, one for unlock) to lock/unlock other doors. If your car is doing this easily when locking, but not working when unlocking suggests a problem(adjustment)in lock/unlock micro switches which are activated by the actions described above. The micro switches -UD25610- are located just under the door lock, as illustrated in Bentley heritage site. hope this clarifies/helps.
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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 191
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 17 July, 2018 - 04:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello everyone, an update on this - we've had the door apart, a careful procedure as we didn't know what was held by clips and what was held by screws, a few of which are concealed. The mechanism were far more complex than indicated by the drawing I had, which also showed the wrong switch - the one I bought, of course. Despite the early chassis number (ECH 09680) the switch was of the micro-switch type, not the plunger type. It was faulty, and we couldn't adjust it in any way. It took an hour to strip the door - and 2 hours to put it back together. There's no room to work, and we had a job to find a short enough socket to be able to get the door handle nuts back on. Perhaps the driver's door had been damaged, and replaced with one from a later model?

We left the micro-switch disconnected, as we found all the interior and puddle lights etc: work perfectly on all the other three doors. I hardly ever need them anyway as I don't drive at night. I have left the battery switched on, as I want to know if it was indeed the interior lights draining the battery.

My thanks to all for the assistance and encouragement! David (Gore) you were right about the type of switch too! Still, no great loss thanks to Mark (Aldridge). And it might come in handy yet if the other 3 doors are original!
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gordon le feuvre
Prolific User
Username: triumph

Post Number: 258
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 17 July, 2018 - 07:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

as I said in my earlier post Bentley Heritage Parts site is run by factory and free. one can follow model, browse, and find OWN vin/chassis number from list. this "should" filter to correct part for "your" car. Through 53 years experience with R-R, it is worth going to end of particular section, and working backwards. especially relevant to Shadow & earlier model parts lists. for example it will say 9000 onwards, but if you scroll forwards to say, 13754 there will another change and again at 18723 and new part numbers. My dealer at best sold 40 units a year, and virtually every one that came through door was different from last. Imagine trying to keep manual up to date-nightmare.
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Roderick Waite
Prolific User
Username: rodwaite

Post Number: 208
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Friday, 25 January, 2019 - 07:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Another go at this - David, I've checked through the 'S31' pages you kindly posted, and my car is on the S31 - 004 - 04 illustration (3rd one down) chassis DCX 07494 to GCH 16930. However, the only item that resembles a micro-switch is at the top as Part No UB38219. Can you (or anyone!) confirm that this is indeed the switch that operates the interior lights please? Before I order the wrong thing again! Many thanks ...
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3121
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 25 January, 2019 - 02:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick,

Have you removed the original switch and does it have the name of the manufacturer and a part number on it?

The best solution I can think of is to try and get a match with the original or its equivalent from another manufacturer. This assumes, of course, another switch has not been fitted during the car's life - I would be removing the switch from the other door and "cross-checking" to see if they are identical. The passenger door switch is more likely to be an original as it would get far less use than the driver's door and accordingly have a longer life.

.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 2138
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 25 January, 2019 - 07:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi, Sorry to not be around. Glad you narrowed down the fault.

I'm on my phone so hopefully I've caught the gist of what you're after. ie which switch?

I am pretty much certain that the lock does not change and any of the micro switch types will work.

Dimensions are standard but manufacturers and design changed.

Did you find the lever that operates it.

If you hold the outside button in and move the catch slightly open and closed you may hear the micro switch click.

The lever is as thin and narrow as a single blade on a modern Gillette razor blade. Ie tiny.

(Other make razors are available) wink.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 2139
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 25 January, 2019 - 07:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ps. Save the plunger switch for the boot light or fuse box light.
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michael vass
Grand Master
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 523
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Saturday, 26 January, 2019 - 03:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Rod
hope your well!
The number I'm quite sure of the switch you need is ud25238
see this https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/courtesy-light-switch-ud25238u.html?___SID=U
(lever ud25304)
The price is a bit high that's listed so just get an equivalent and solder the wires ok, something like this https://www.jaycar.co.uk/spdt-125v-3a-sub-miniature-micro-switch-with-lever/p/SM1036
however check these too ok
ud 26225, ud26224 or
ud1650

Google those number to see what they look like and see what you think ok
Good luck
Mike
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Steve Emmott
Experienced User
Username: steve_e

Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2018
Posted on Saturday, 26 January, 2019 - 03:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Roderick, Check out this site for something similar as the original replacements are a ridiculous price.

https://uk.farnell.com/c/switches-relays/switches/microswitch-snap-action-switches
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michael vass
Grand Master
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 524
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Saturday, 26 January, 2019 - 03:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Steve Agreed, introcar are asking over 80 for this, even FS are only asking 27 ,no I would pay that for a switch.
Mike
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Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 109
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Saturday, 26 January, 2019 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The original microswitches are Bugler and they were bought by Honeywell. We use Honeywell here and are exact fit. The retaining rivets have to be drilled out and substitute small machine screws. Make sure to test prior to install. Most are SPDT configuration and slight bending of the lever is necessary. Google Honeywell microswitches. I can't find my link.
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Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Saturday, 26 January, 2019 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I used Honeywell311SM703-T subminiature lever switch. They were only a few dollars on ebay.
These are sometimes called "limit switches"
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2754
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 02:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I used something very similar to the Honeywell noted except with slide terminals, which made life easier, when I had a non-functioning door switch on LRK37110.

Virtually anything in this switch family of very similar size can be used if the necessary modifications for holding it in place are made.

This basic style appears to have been used by Crewe for decades.

Brian
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Steve Emmott
Experienced User
Username: steve_e

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2018
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 04:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It does need to be understood exactly what the switch function on the 3 wires performs.

SPDT means single pole double throw which would probably mean it has two feeds out probably one to door kerb light and other to interior header lights.

Some switches could look very similar with 3 connections but one could be a 'make' circuit and the other a 'break' circuit.

Obviously Robert is familiar with the electrical diagrams which should make it clear if it is an SPDT required.

Michael.... I also think you might find FS part is coded 'U' so the 27 is for a used part.

Some costs of parts while we are all grateful for the aftermarket suppliers making them available can be astonishing.

I had a leak on my '72 Shadow power steering pump 30 odd years ago and was quoted around 500 for a new pump. All the insides are the same as what Vauxhall(GM) used and Jaguar(E-Type)in the 60/70's and were made in USA at Saginaw, Detroit a whole town back then that survived on the auto industry. Hence the pump was named Saginaw.

Working with Ford in Michigan at the time I was fortunate to be taken for a visit to the company and picked up a new pump and a lifetime box of spare parts for $20 (USD)...........cost price of the pump to the UK auto industry back in the late 60's my purchasing colleagues were able to track back on the records and it was just $9 (USD)

The only differences in designs across the auto industry were the metal casing filler neck profile.

Rebuild kits now are available and they are very simple to rebuild providing no damage to the rotary vanes or scoring on the block.

Obviously message really is to always shop around and do the right thing checking on these helpful sites as for sure it will save the running costs
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2755
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 04:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well, if it's a SPDT switch (or relay) then by definition there's what's generally used as a hot input with two outputs: one energized the switch is open and the other energized when the switch is closed.

In the case of the door switches, most people get the hookup backwards initially as well, since when the plunger is pushed in, this activates the switch so that the "closed" terminal complete the circuit, and that's what you don't want when the switch is activated. And when the plunger is released when the door is opened the switch opens, too, so you want the "energized when open" terminal being the one that completes the circuit for the light to come on. (Or at least I tend to want it to be "backwards" in this case, since my mind always wants the "switch closed" to complete a circuit and "switch open" to break it. That, however, is not always the case.)

It seems that SPDT switches and relays get used very frequently where an SPST would make more sense. But they don't cost any more and all you have to do is know which terminal you're not connecting based on the conditions where the circuit is to be completed. There have been several Lucas SPDT relays I've happened upon where a rubber sleeve was fitted over the non-used terminal. Others were just left "hanging in the air," or the little rubber terminal covers came off over the course of decades.

Brian
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Steve Emmott
Experienced User
Username: steve_e

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2018
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 04:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree with what you are saying Brian but the key here is the fact the switch has a 3 wire connector.

Door light switches were very simple originally and just a single wire from the 'negative' required side of the lamp (assuming a negative earth car) which simply made it's circuit to earth when the plunger was released in effect it would be a NC (normally closed) designated switch whether direct or through a relay.

Seeing the connector has 3 wires would suggest a secondary circuit performing some function rather than just having utilised a common SPDT as a SPST so on working out the exact interior function of the replacement switch and how it needs wiring would require a need to look at the circuit diagrams for the car.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 2140
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 06:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Have a look at the wiring diagram before panicing.

The switches are made with three wires, so often one is just redundant.

The arm rest lights and door shut lights are not on a timer. I feel that was also true when they had the old Lucas switches.

(On phone ... no diagrams to hand )
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Steve Emmott
Experienced User
Username: steve_e

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2018
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 09:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For sure it is quite often you will see these microswitches with one connection not used as it allows a single switch to be used as a NO or NC condition as required by designers and results in reduced stock requirement at product manufacturers.

Simple to then have a look at the mating male connector on the harnesss to the door switch and see if it has two or three wires coming out of it.

I could understand for mass production reasons seeing an unused connection on a switch but I would doubt RR would make their bespoke harness with the additional wire if it was not required
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Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 111
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

On SY cars there are 2 wires with pig tails. You could always pull one of the switches and test with a DMM for circuit action. These are often called "limit switches" and have widespread use in machine applications hence the NC or NO with a common between them.
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michael vass
Grand Master
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 525
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Sunday, 27 January, 2019 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi the wiring diagrams I've looked at use only 2 wires.
I did a post before but it went lost on the annoying double post system
Mike

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