| Author | Message | ||
     Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 528 Registered: 4-2009 |
Do we know which Shadow is the oldest surviving one? I have the opportunity to buy chassis number 1295 and am wondering if I should consider it or not. It must be amongst the older Shadows out there; but I do wonder which Shadow is indeed the oldest one that we know of as a club? I am also running out of parking spaces and if I bring one more car to the house my wife will leave me. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1842 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, Your last sentence gives you your answer with regard to acquisition regardless of the answer to your initial question. Brian, Spouses of Those With the Collector's Impulse Unite!! [we need breathing space] | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 529 Registered: 4-2009 |
yeah - the wife rules ...... again...... | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1843 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, You fail to remember that you've sent me photographs of your garage. Somehow I think there's been more than a bit of give and take!! You don't fool me for one second! Brian | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1080 Registered: 5-2012 |
Omar If your wife leaves you, you can park your cars in the house as well.  Geoff | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1918 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, Your potential problem if you acquire another car reminds me of the differences between having a wife and a dog: "Difference between Dogs and Wives - Why Some Men Have Dogs And Not Wives: 1. The later you are, the more excited your dog is to see you. 2. Dogs don't notice if you call them by another dog's name. 3. Dogs like it if you leave a lot of things on the floor. 4. A dog's parents never visit. 5. Dogs agree that you have to raise your voice to get your point across. 6. You never have to wait for a dog; they're ready to go 24 hours a day. 7. Dogs find you amusing when you're drunk. 8. Dogs like to go hunting and fishing. 9. A dog will not wake you up at night to ask, “If I died, would you get another dog?” 10. If a dog has babies, you can put an ad in the paper and give them away. 11. A dog will let you put a studded collar on it without calling you a pervert. 12. If a dog smells another dog on you, they don't get mad. They just think it's interesting. 13. Dogs like to ride in the back of a car/pickup truck. And last, but not least: 14. If a dog leaves, it won't take half of your stuff." | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1919 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, Getting back on topic, the oldest surviving Shadow has always been a topic of interest particularly if the criteria is either pure age, still registered for road use or a static exhibit in a car collection/museum. If my memory is correct, the oldest Shadow documented is in the UK but I have no records to confirm this is the case. The 2015 edition of "Chassis Plate" details the current RROC[Australia] car register and lists SRH1076 as the earliest Shadow and CRH1344 as the earliest MPW derivative. The 2001 edition of Chassis Plate listed SRH1045 as the earliest Shadow however the current status and location of this car is not known to me. My preference for selection is still registered for road use as this is what the car was made for and this criteria also reflects the additional responsibilities placed on the owner for the car to be roadworthy and used when practicable. IMHO a "garage queen" or static exhibit is not as worthy of the same recognition as a car that is still in regular use. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 414 Registered: 2-2013 |
Omar, if you really must indulge yourself in investing in the weird ie the first ever Shadow then I suggest you call Barbara Weslake at Hunt House and ask her what the bribe fee is for looking that up. She must have the documentation. But there is a Shadow older than the First Shadow and that is the prototype Shadow and who knows where that is? In fact their could be quite a few first Shadows. I am not fooled by the wife leaving comment either. You simply can't have a collection your size and not have an understanding wife. You must surely be the Jay Leno of Dubai or close to it. That said, I was dumbfounded the other day when my dredging the net came up with this Professor type chap in Syria of all places living in a bombed out city and refusing to leave because he wants to stay and protect his classic car collection which was pictured in the street !! Classic car collecting perhaps is more addictive than opiates or nicotine !! | ||
| John Graham New User Username: john_graham Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2013 |
The early cars do certainly have their own charms. As the current keeper of SRH1076 I was amazed/horrified/curious about the list of modifications to this car before it actually left the factory. There were many modifications to various components plus rectification work all over the place. All this was revealed in the wealth of documents available in the vehicle's history file from the RREC. Teething problems, indeed. Should anyone know anything of this car's UK history, I would be delighted to hear about it. It was first registered ERG800D and was delivered to Aberdeen; quite possibly as a demonstrator. it would have certainly stood out. It has had a bit of a rough life but is still a runner and is on the way back to a level of regular use. Still much to do. Originally Astral Blue and Shell Grey, it is now an all-over dark blue that is probably close to Astral Blue. A fair bit of the paint has peeled off and is quite scruffy but the rust has not taken a hold anywhere that I have found so it must have left Scotland before too many winters in those parts. Interior is VM3244 blue/grey leather and in reasonable condition apart from some sunburn to the back of the rear seat and some split stitching. As for the notion of buying more cars, I have a friend that I ask about these things whern something tasty catches my eye. His response is typically "do it, do it" which is not always helpful. But when the significant other asks "do you want to buy it?", then you know you are in a lucky place. John Graham NSW Central Coast | ||
| John Graham New User Username: john_graham Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2013 |
... more on SRH1076. This car was registered RR-002 in Victoria for quite some years, so this might trigger some memories. Black and white plates, wide spaced characters. The Dutch gentleman that I bought it from in the Eastern Suburbs was not active in the Club as far as I know. The car still has RR-002 etched into its windows in the bottom corner. He opted to retain the plate and had been sniffing around a Spur/Spirit among the excellent offerings of Bob Chapman as a possible replacement. Omar, you would find that you would delight in the discovery of the little differences that distinguish early from late cars, or (I suspect) in cars produced some weeks apart from each other. Continuous improvement, they call it! John. | ||
| Mark Herbstreit Prolific User Username: mark_herbstreit Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2005 |
If you search this forum and elsewhere for Ben Crombie and SRH1011 you will find the oldest surviving Shadow in Australia. It would have to be in the top five oldest Shadows in the world. Unfortunately it has been extensively modified and could in no way be regarded as original. I don't begrudge the owners mods as they had begun before he acquired it. What is unfortunate is it happened to a car that could be historically significant. The car now plays a role in introducing the marque to a demographic who would otherwise not be interested. The oldest T series in Australia is SBH1187. Still in original unrestored condition and was in regular use the last time I saw it. Dash of SBH1187 below  | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 530 Registered: 4-2009 |
What a fascinating topic!! thanks for all the banter guys - I love our collective sense of humour. These original Shadows and Ts are truly superb cars. I think I will leave this particular car to someone else to enjoy though. for your information guys, the car is available on this link http://www.copart.com/us/Lot/17577066?searchId=127279458 Meanwhile I am debating the option of making friends with Harry Potter to see if he can convert women into dogs......... | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 682 Registered: 4-2009 |
Guys - why hasn't anyone bought SRX 1295 yet? It is still for sale and I can imagine this will be a truly worthwhile Shadow to own. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Prolific User Username: patrick_r Post Number: 248 Registered: 4-2016 |
Gents, Don't know if you saw the last entry I added into the thread "Drift Shadow" This is what I added about SRH1011 http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/20584.html?1463185819 Here are some images of it when it landed in Australia if you can't view the above link.   | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2016 |
As the present caretaker of Tootsie (SRX6816), which is nowhere near being historically significant, I have a definite opinion regarding modifications. To wit; as long as they are reversible (and the original parts are kept in case the next guy is a purist), they're perfectly OK. At least this is 'my' criteria and it pretty much holds true for many, many cars I have owned. While these have all moved on to new caretakers, they include my 1965 Lotus Elan, 1966 Maserati Sebring, 1969 Corvette (two different times), plus a 1973 DeTomaso Pantera. There is, however, one exception, which is Lulu. Basically, Lulu has been modified in many ways (to the point of being indistinguishable from her original form except to the experienced eye). Anyway, Tootsie will follow my usual rule because she is completely original except for tires, belts, hoses, one accumulator, alternator, and starter (and while the replacement starter is one of the lightweight high torque units, I have the original in a box). I am, however, considering an induction upgrade from the dual SU carburetors to a single Holley FI system after discovering Vlad has a car with a single Holley 4-barrel (and that it's an easy-ish install). Anyway, Holley call it a Sniper EFI, it's relatively inexpensive ($1250) but note, I'm merely pondering the notion (I'm not even hot to trot on it). More info here . . . Holley Sniper EFI: http://tinyurl.com/zdf85wx  | ||
| Alan Ford Frequent User Username: herne13 Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2016 |
Hi John, Phil Sproston has discussed that very EFI unit as a substitute of my '86 Bentley Turbo RL should my carburetor ever need replacing. I wont hesitate to go down that road should the need arise. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1460 Registered: 5-2012 |
John, My philosophy is the same. If I modify the car I always keep the original parts, so it can be changed back again. So far my move away from original is a Britishstarters starter motor. I have also removed from my car the HT lead channeling. Plus the addition of a temperature gauge. All the changes can be easily reversed should there ever be the need. I am interested in the non-standard alternator you have fitted to your car. My car was recently off the road for 2 weeks whilst I waited for some brushes for the alternator to be delivered from the UK. The wait was quite frustrating so I bought a 7127NC alternator locally to fit instead. In the event, there were other delays so I refitted the original repaired(ish) alternator, keeping the 7127NC for a rainy day. Did you fit your non-standard alternator yourself or was it already on the car. Do you know if it is also a 7127 GM alternator. Geoff | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2016 |
Non-standard alternator?!? I didn't know it was non-standard. It's a USA car and I would have wagered it's original. The dash says 'generator' but the thing sure looks like a Delco alternator to me.  - Wide angle view of the alternator unit  - Front pulley view - plastic cooling fan  - Cover attached to the rear of alternator  - CU of capacitor - radio noise suppressor? | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 900 Registered: 4-2009 |
The CAV alternator looks original to me apart form the fan. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1464 Registered: 5-2012 |
My apologies. When John said "she is completely original except for tires, belts, hoses, one accumulator, alternator, and starter" I took it to mean they had been replaced with substitute parts, rather than OEM parts fitted at some time after the car's manufacture. I guess if that criteria is used, no car can ever be truly original, as parts need replacing as they wear out. Geoff | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2016 |
Actually, Omar, I'm pretty certain the fan is original because Tootsie only has 17,000 miles and there's no record of work on the alternator. For what it's worth, she spent two stints in air conditioned storage (totaling nearly 4 decades) after her two previous owners passed away. The first stint in storage lasted 27 years and the second, lasted another 12 years. Both times because the respective widows didn't want to part with her. I've told Lynn to immediately sell the car after I pass or I'll come back and haunt her! Anyway, Tootsie almost looks like she came off the showroom floor (in effect because she's been in a time capsule). She has the typical old English car smell and yesterday I overheard Lynn (my long suffering wife, best friend, and possessed of a wicked sense of humor) laughingly telling a visiting girlfriend that Tootsie smells of leather, money, pussy, and old men. Only when she commented she was waiting for me to put Tootsie on the road to invite her out for date so we could try out the back seat did I realized she was having me on . . . she'd spied me coming down the hallway in a mirror! Meanwhile, because maintenance records don't indicate work on the alternator, I believe the fan is both OEM and contemporary with the alternator. What maintenance records 'do' indicate are things like points, plugs, and oil changes (sometimes with less than 150 miles in any given year). Ditto rubber components, e.g. hoses, belts, and tires - again with very few miles between intervals. This all leading me to believe they were being replaced due to calendar age and not because they had worn, or suffered failure. I've subsequently learned when the second owner retired and sold off his car collection, this was one of two cars he kept (the other being a 1967 3.4L Mk II, which I am presently contemplating acquiring). Anyway, once he decided to begin driving the car it promptly suffered a rash of brake failures (in a matter of a few months) and he died before the work was completed so back into storage went Tootsie. And as I now know from reading this forum, brake fluid is hygroscopic and thus, it should have been replaced semi-yearly (hence the brake failures due to corrosion). I've subsequently formed the opinion this was because of lack of knowledge instead of any attempt at economy. And I've also recently come to learn a lot more about Tootsie because I've made contact with the mechanic who actually cared for the car. Moreover, as he's gotten to know me, he's begun to open up both about his years servicing Tootsie and he's begun to regale me with stories about the owners (a colorful pair of characters). In fact, a budding friendship is developing - to the point tonight he sent me this photo of Rusty, the shop cat (and his pet) laying beneath Tootsie during the period in time they were replacing all the calipers. Speaking of which, and of special interest to me, these cars have two brake circuits and there's one set of calipers on the rear disks like normal plus two independent sets of calipers two each per front wheel - all are Girling manufacture - and all have been replaced with new (along with about two dozen rubber brake hoses) said work totaling a rather substantial sum for parts and labor.  - Rusty, Ken's shop cat contentedly posing beneath Tootsie | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 641 Registered: 4-2016 |
Gents. My car SRH12255 has the same alternator with the same fan as Johns. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 642 Registered: 4-2016 |
Geoff is right. Things do need replacement and judges would have to be pretty tough to knock a car with a replacement alternator. If that was the case, we couldn't even change our spark plugs. By design a car wears while doing what it was meant to do. Otherwise they wouldn't sell more cars | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1044 Registered: 9-2004 |
Judges and Judges with different ideas of originality etc etc. I have no time for any of the nonsence. Known some owners that have enterted with perfectly sound usable vehicles only to watch the judges pick up this that with the owner becoming as sick as a parrot. Use the cars and enjoy. As for the alternator it is not original and looking at the screw heads it looks as though it has been dismantled at some time. Who cares so long as it does its job. Nice to see an early car with the front self leveling still in place. | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2016 |
Silly me, I see in my original post (the one with a photo of an EFI) I listed the alternator as having been on a repair ticket. I don't know what I was smoking when I subsequently responded to Omar the alternator was original, oops! Anyway, Patrick sums up my views about using the car and enjoying. That's the point! One question, Patrick, how did you know the front self-leveling is still in place? I find it interesting how this car works. Lynn says the car has camel's blood running through it's veins because it kneels in front when I actuate the brakes after shutting it down the way a camel kneels for you to dismount. Each press of the pedal dips the car's nose a little bit until eventually it bottoms. And I know the rear self-leveling functions as well because I opened the truck, sat my fat ass on the edge, and the car raised back up to level. Pretty neat! | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 643 Registered: 4-2016 |
All good stuff. My car has the same alternator with the plastic fan. As Patrick says, As long as they work and are of an original spec, nothing wrong. Since Patrick picked it, he can explain the front levelling system to you John. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 644 Registered: 4-2016 |
Love your wife's description of your car interior John. I'm sure there are lots of us who would love to know what has gone on (and off) in these cars.  | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1046 Registered: 9-2004 |
The clue to the automatic front height control system is the feed pipes for the rams located through each of the top spring pot covers. This was deleted with the introduction of the compliant suspension. Shame as IMO could have been developed for elimination of more body roll. | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2016 |
I noticed it rolls like a boat when turning. I gather this is normal, eh? Have these ever been fitted with roll bars? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2300 Registered: 4-2003 |
John, Yes - there is a thread on this forum covering retro-fitting Turbo R front anti-roll bars to the Shadows from Richard Treacy. The front anti-roll bar was one of the key components of the Harvey Bailey upgrade option for the Shadows. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 650 Registered: 4-2016 |
John, I like the Queen Mary waftability, and when you master lining a corner up two corners before you get to the said corner, it's quite rewarding. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2301 Registered: 4-2003 |
Here are the links for the Turbo R anti-roll bar modification for the Shadows: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/10945.html?1301471803 http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17004/9918.html |
