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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 249
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 06:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all I have had an offer accepted that I made on a 1997 Turbo R I am traveling to Kent to collect it on Thursday 22nd its colour is racing green and it has 29600 miles on the clock and full service history. what are the pros and cons of owning such a car any tips or advice would be appreciated.

Richard.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.88
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

First bit of advice is to check the levels fill up the tank and enjoy the car.

Next bit is.
Allow the car to idle after the turbo has been used, before the engine is turned off.

Check the rust proofing and if concerned, wax oil it. Behind bumpers etc.

Oil things like door catches and anything else that moves.

This is because the average diyer and profession give little thought about all the other little bits and pieces on a car. Oil now before wear happens. Once a year is enough.

Then it's wheels off to check brakes and tyres.

Go though paper work and see when the fluids were last changed including gearbox steering and rear axle.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 250
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 19 January, 2015 - 07:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bob thank you for taking the time and having the interest in what another user is doing. I will post pictures when the new system becomes operative.

Richard.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.78
Posted on Tuesday, 20 January, 2015 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I looked forward to the photos.

I hope it proves to be a good car. No matter how much inspection is done its down to the gods now.

This could be the last car you will need to buy.

Forgot Important
Only use fully synthetic oil in the engine most turbo failures are caused by brg problems due to oil failure. Mineral oils can carborise and block the oil way in the turbo. With proper oil turbos can last very high miles.

Check out the acceleration from 30 to 70mph in second gear. This is where the torque really shows it's doesn't take long. There's no sudden turbo boost the car goes fast. These cars will cruise at 70 to 120mph till the tank runs dry. So 70 to 80mph on UK roads is easy running.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 86
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 23 January, 2015 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Congratulations Richard on the purchase of another car which of course is essential. I don't know if the car uses mineral oil or brake fluid in its brake system.You will locate the answer in this fine forum somewhere if you look. If its brake fluid, check your documentation and if it hasn't been changed in the last two years, then change it immediately. Check all the tyres for cracks and check how long they have been on the car. I had a 1969 Cadillac De Ville Sedan with Austrian made Semperents (sic) and at 110mph with the granny, mother and father in law the tyre exploded lucky on the rear. The tyres looked good but were not and in a Turbo R you are going to be a naughty chap sooner or later or you would have bought a Great Wall or some other nasty Asian paperbag like means of transport. So really the tyres are your seatbelt to the ground and once you leave the ground at high speed things can get ugly and the authorities have a bad habit of turning up at the wrong time especially as everybody has a mobile phone these days. Next rip up the rear seat and check for left over Uzi Machine guns, little plastic bags of white powers, cash and membership cards to the Hellfire Club. You never know whats under the back seat as I did find (on Bob's advice) a one cent coin under the rear seat of the Camargue. I did find a full live ammo clip from an M16 under the front seat of a 1969 Mustang Mach One I had years back but that's to be expected from any car imported from the USA. I would also have an extremely good look, feel and grab of all fuel lines and all flexible coolant lines. You don't want to be embarrassed by such unpredictable gremlins if you are in Brighton with some good looking lass 30 years your junior and the wife suspects you are not at the Born Again Christian Bible Study Conference in Dublin as promised. Precautions must be taken. Apart from that just enjoy the car and remember you are expected to drive it like Toad of Toad Hall passed the unwashed. Another essential item is the "My other car is a Rolls Royce" sticker for the rear windscreen. And please no photos of the tacho at 3700 RPM and the speedo at plus 140 mph ripping up the M1 because we just don't tolerate that type of behaviour in this forum for obvious but unstated reasons.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Grand Master
Username: lluís

Post Number: 326
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Friday, 23 January, 2015 - 06:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

My Continental R had 24000 miles in 13 years of existence in sunny California prior to me buying it... it's basically the same car as yours mechanically except for the intercooler set-up and boost control system.

I must STRESS: with such a low mileage in a 18 year old car check anything with rubber and plastic: tires as a matter of course but due to minimum use lots of hoses and o-rings will be perished or close too so brace yourself for some cheap but labour-intensive activity.

In my case by order of failing: o rings of the hydraulic pumps, rear spheres, fuel system high pressure "hot lines" in the vee. Would I have known, all would have been done when the o-rings were changed. Clear from the overhauling of the injection system in a parallel thread is that the coolant o-rings were half way.

Batteries of the seat memories may be close to death, in case inoperative try typing 4-3-3-4 or 3-4-4-3 in the memory system program to reset them (in my case it worked).

In case you notice a rough idle and a check engine at idle it is 99% a vacuum leak of the 16+16 elastic members (hoses, o rings, etc...) from the turbo to the inlet valves. Changed dramatically my idle refinement when I overhauled this.

The oil pan bolts get loose also, they are not as much as a pain to tighten as it seems with some modified spanners.

Strange thing is that die to asimmetric heating loads in these engines, the pan bolts in mine were loose on the right because of catalyser and turbo heat and the exhaust manifold gaskets half-shot on the left, so expect to find different things in different places.

Check and clean the PCV system, in particular the flame trap.

As a matter of course as stated by Bob UK, fluids et al, add spark plugs and cables. Consider that an invitation to do a major service (60000 mile in the booklet?)

I know it's annoying to do preventive maintenance, but now from experience, in case you open up the vee valley for o-rings of the pumps, which I think you might have to do sonner or later, ignore the low mileage and change all perishables. It's a few days satisfying work.

The turbo should perform phenomenal. At your OWN risk you may disconnect the solenoid pneumatic pipe to the waste gate to see ho the car performs at 0.7 bar (recirculation valve mechanical opening). It's not unsafe, but I would not give the car a 4500rpm in hot weather without knock-sensor controlled boost management. Anyway: in case your car performs much worse with the solenoid pipe connected, it means that the boost control system is due for maintenance (solenoids get dirty with recirculation oil, etc...) there is a thread describing what to do.
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 254
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 03 February, 2015 - 04:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all I have had the car home now for over a week and I am driving it at every opportunity its Vin number is SCBZP15C0VCH60128 I haven't got round to giving it a name yet it will have to be something Macho to suit its temperament have you got any suggestions.

Richard.
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James Feller
Grand Master
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 332
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 03 February, 2015 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

all great advice being given Richard.

I can only second most of it. WRT turbo performance it should be nice and brisk, seamless and pull like a locomotive.
hahah Lluis is indeed baiting you re removing the waste gate vacuum hoses.... if you are running top quality 98RON fuel ( and I HOPE NOTING ELSE!!!) and the system is clean then go for a quick unrestricted blast. If the system is function correctly you will have full boost by 2600rpms anyway. Only if something is wrong or not functioning correctly will the Knock Sensors restrict the boost. removing the Wastegate hoses you are bypassing the systems knock sensors which will step in and stop any dangerous pinging or misfiring.
A few of us some years ago now got 'down and dirty' with a our 'lazy' Turbos as it were and found a lot of hidden potential. There is a very in-depth section here on resurrection of the system, if indeed its a bit iffy.
Time, inactivity and irregular maintenance are the culprits of poor, lazy or lost performance wrt to Turbo R's.
Take your time and get to know the car for a few months and im sure it will reveal all sorts of 'interesting items and things' to you. I'm sure you will love it, they are wonderful old brutes, are great driving and cross continent cruisers and frankly have the most comfortable supportive seats of any car I've ever owned, driven or ridden in.

Cheerio

J
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James Feller
Grand Master
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 333
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 03 February, 2015 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

apologies and just to be clear I should have written the statement as below, knock sensors do NOT control pinging;

the KS will restrict boost by operating the waste gate and dump pressure, to base boost levels which will be about 3psi at best, if they DETECT any knock or pinging. They are a simple microphone after all and I had two that were replaced on my 89 Turbo located down under the baking red hot manifolds in the block ( ridiculous location really..) yours I think are up top in the Vee valley if Im not mistaken on the later cars...??

Some other Grand Master Bentley Turbo giants may care to correct or enlighten you further Richard.

:-)

J
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Grand Master
Username: lluís

Post Number: 333
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 03 February, 2015 - 06:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi,

Knock sensors are on both sides of the block. The originals are Lammerholms but you can directly swap for modern Bosch provided you machine an adaptor to bolt them.

I note that not much can go wrong by removing the waste gate control shortly, because whilst the knock sensors will tell the ECU to remove boost (by slow waste gate operation, which is now disconnected) they will also increase advance instantaneously. The second will have big influence is removing pinging.

Whilst it's at each own risk, Omar from the Gulf drove during years his turbo R in great heat without noticing that the wastegate was disconnected in case I recall properly.

Increasing the boost will nevertheless open up any weak seals in the intake, I know what I am saying which in my case caused vacuum leaks till I dismantled the intake and resealed everything. I am positive about the connection between increasing boost and the leaks. Now it's all fine and I operate the potentiometer of the Bosst control system to give a healthy 0.5 bar with the transient allowing blasts to 0.7 bar.

The recirculation valve will keep pressure at 0.7 bars in any case and the spring-loaded waste gate open anyway above 4000 rpm even without vacuum.

By the way Richard, your car uses a full Manifold Pressure Control system (which does not meter air) so I would NOT recommend teasing the boost signal like I did. In my earlier car you can tease the boost system without influencing the base program of the engine ECU.

I only know of a Turbo R that melted a piston at 1.1 Bar boost because the fueling got too lean (injectors cannot supply enough fuel).

The performance when the system works at full boost is really nothing short of scary, I mean it. Not many things that big go that fast...



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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1191
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 04 February, 2015 - 02:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

On the subject of the knock sensor, the original is a Lamerholm VP50, but it appears that Lamerholm has been bought out. If you try going to what was the Lamerholm website you're redirected to the IMC Group. Searches on the IMC website don't turn up the VP50 anywhere, nor any current products for automotive applications.

Are these now available only as NOS or has the equivalent product been taken over by someone else, much like Tyco took over the Bosch relay business?

Brian

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