| Author | Message | |||
     richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 548 Registered: 4-2012 |
Recently I have experienced the appearance of this warning sign on my 1997 Turbo R it never stays on for long periods usually overnight is long enough to get rid of it what would be a List of the most likely causes for these unwelcome visits. | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Grand Master Username: lluís Post Number: 407 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi Richard, Basically the Throttle Position Sensor and the Oxygen Sensor and the main candidates. Temperature Sensor (the 5V for the engine) might also be out of range. I changed them all when I did some maintenance and the nasty light went off. | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 555 Registered: 4-2012 |
Thank you Lluis Nice to hear from you if it becomes more regular I will change them (that is if I knew where to find them) Richard. | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 717 Registered: 4-2009 |
Bear Lluis, could the coils and the plugs not also cause this light to come on? what about the speed signal? Thanks Omar | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2002 Registered: 6-2009 |
Richard, I cannot recall at the moment either where you live or the original delivery market for your car. Does it have an OBD-II port? If so you can really narrow down your likely culprit(s) by checking the codes when the check engine light is illuminated. Transient codes like this are particularly frustrating during the period they remain transient. Certain ones are stored, even after the trigger is no longer present and the light no longer illuminated while others are not. Brian | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 557 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Brian I live in Northern Ireland, My car is a UK car Vin no 60128 and no I don't think it has an OBD11 Port if it does someone will know, An example of the fault happened today I was in the village of Hillsborough near where I live Stopped for some scones at the bakery started the car all lights out except the check engine one turned the car off waited a few seconds started the car again and all the lights went off, Its worse than a woman keeps changing its mind. Richard. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2003 Registered: 6-2009 |
Richard, I just looked again in IETIS and it is only US and Canadian spec cars that included a standard OBD-II port in addition to the Mastercheck port. But, the good news is, the wiring diagram shows that an OBD-II port is simply "grafted on" to the Mastercheck loom and uses only a few selected pin positions from the Mastercheck port. You can easily go to your local breaker yard and find any car that was equipped with OBD-II and remove the port from that car along with enough wire behind the port to make it easy to attach new pins. The Mastercheck port uses a now hard-to-find ITT-Canon connector, but you don't even need that. You can get the necessary pins (and I believe these on eBay are the same type that are used on the male side, which you can connect to the OBD-II port wires and carefully plug them in to the Mastercheck pin positions needed so that you can hook up a conventional OBD-II code reader. It took me forever to work out the attached from the wiring diagrams, but it applies directly to your car if you've got Zytek engine management, and I think you do. This raises a question: There appears to be some overlap in Zytek and Bosch engine managment systems. Is there any easy way to know definitively what engine management a given car is equipped with? I have plenty of experience with transient conditions that throw DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) some of which have very few engine stop-start cycles before being cleared if they don't recur. It's indeed frustrating, but that's why I obtained a code reader (and a bluetooth OBD-II dongle and OBD App for my smartphone) so that I can easily pull codes whenever necessary so that I can get some idea of what might be developing. Brian
| |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1571 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Richard, I would definitely recommend a mastercheck read before buying any parts just to try them out on the off chance. There are so many things that will throw the warning light on and some are really transient. Even low battery voltage can upset it sometimes. I know it's tricky where you are - maybe we can formulate a plan? If tempted to try and make a reader - Be very careful with the wiring and also with scan tools that aggressively scan all ports. Fried ECUs etc are never good  Brian - I'm sure similar diagrams are available - I've seen them somewhere, not sure if I saved them though. Sometimes it is quicker to knock up your own though. To find out what ecu (or any other part) a certain car uses - when you use Assist, Press VIN up the top. Put the cars vin number in. Next press PIN ENTRY and go to the parts diagram . . . it will show only parts for that vin. (If all goes well!) If you then press the APPLICABILITY button it will give other vehicles which has it fitted. Unfortunately it does applicability for the diagram not the part and you can't do it backwards. It's a shame you can't even copy and paste these. I ended up having to SNIP / PDF / OCR in the past. | |||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 553 Registered: 2-2013 |
Does anybody know the first year RR/B first started to install ECUs into their cars as I want to avoid buying one entirely. I have just realised that ECU avoidance could put me in a financial position where I could possible score a Mark III Lincoln for my collection having spotted the pricing of the ECUs at Flying Spares. | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1572 Registered: 6-2006 |
I guess you'll be getting a Cloud then . . . Coolant level on a Shadow is prossibly the first? About 86 with fuel injection for engine ones. Saying that though . . . I've only ever replaced about a dozen engine onrs. Most because of flooding.... the rest because of boost charger starting - probably the wrong way around. There's worse things to avoid. | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 313 Registered: 4-2015 |
Vladimir... I am with you on avoiding complications. For that very reason, I am particular to the pre-emission control early Shadows that avoid those EPA complications. My '66 Shadow Coupe CRX2541 has basically none, straight carbs, fewer electrical sensors and things to act up and diagnose, but that preference is just me. My brain never really adjusted to anything past the 6 cylinder Cloud Era anyway, but again, that is just a mental frailty I have to live with! In terms of mechanical simplicity and bullet proof reliability, and since Paul mentioned it, the Cloud Series, IMHO, has never been equalled. Forgive me for tempting you, especially given that you are probably still on the emotional rebound from having been jilted by that Black Spur! | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 559 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi thank you all for your contributions, it seems that in the long term the benefits of converting the Mastercheck system to OBD11 far out weigh keeping the system as is and I shall proceed along these lines I think I would be better obtaining an ITT cannon connecter as usual all help received will be much appreciated. Richard. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2004 Registered: 6-2009 |
Richard, If you can find the correct connector that would be very helpful. It's either that or use some technique to wire the OBD-II port permanently into the Mastercheck harness. It's quite a shame that OBD-II was only legally required in the USA and Canada beginning in 1996, as it became a de facto world standard not that long afterward. Brian | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 560 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Brian I suppose it was down to Money in the end, If you don't have to don't!! Richard. | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 719 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Richard, This conversion has already been covered in this forum. I know because we used my Continental R that has both connectors to establish which wire goes where. I cant remember which year we did this particular thread but it may have been 4 years ago. Thanks Omar | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 561 Registered: 4-2012 |
Thank you Omar I will have a look tomorrow ,This evening I had to do a bit of shopping took the Bentley (As one does) driving along nice and smoothly around 60mph got to this downhill straight and floored it wallah check engine light comes on magic. Richard. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2005 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, We also covered it, to some extent, a bit less than a year ago. I have at least one photo from you showing a Turbo R that is equipped with the Mastercheck port and the OBD-II port right next to it. This has triggered me to write the person who has done the most extensive work regarding putting an OBD-II port on to cars without one. As it happens there is a "hidden connector" that he found that "dead-ends" as far as anything being connected to it that is a part of this loom and can be used to directly graft on an OBD-II port without cutting in to the main Mastercheck loom, which is a big, big, big plus. I have also been told, if I'm understanding a quick message received today correctly, that he has confirmed that this graft works on both Zytek and Bosch Motronic ECUs. If this is true it is very, very good news as well. I think that any of these cars will only be able to give you powertrain (P-codes) and transmission codes, but it's the P-codes that are needed the most frequently and that have the fewest "manufacturer custom" codes since the specification itself for P-codes was so extensive. Brian | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2113 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard, The author was most likely Richard Treacy and I suggest you do searches using the keywords "OBD", "OBII" and "OB II" including setting the box headed "Look In" to "text of messages" and also repeat using "Richard Treacy" as key words and changing "Look In" to "names of authors" to reduce the number of probably irrelevant hits. It also helps under Search Options to change the Search Topic from "all topics" to "Spirit Series". | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2006 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, I started what turned into a long thread about just this topic in December 2014 that's entitled, Mastercheck Port & OBD-II - What do we collectively know?. The individual I alluded to who's done these grafts on multiple cars actually posted on that thread. There's also a thread from 2011 entitled, OBD-II, started by Lluís Gimeno-Fabra and on which Omar chimed in and another from that same year, started by the same person and with several other regulars here chiming in, entitled Master-Check Pin Out / ECU access. Brian | |||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 720 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Brian, You are absolutely right. Well done for either having a brilliant memory or at being really good with using the search facility on the forum. take care Omar | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Grand Master Username: lluís Post Number: 408 Registered: 8-2007 |
Hi... My apologies for slow writing. 52020 is in great shape but I have quite an active life lately meaning that I can post little. I indeed connected an elm 327 using the usual u and w ports that are there for the k and l lines of the 9141 protocol. There is not much complication really with these motronics. When the tps fries it's usually the idle position contact meaning that the infamous check engine goes out with 1% throttle opening... The oxygen sensor goes every 100 k and taking into account what it does it's nice to change it at50k or so. I find obsessed reading of obd dangerous... As with many mechanical systems one fault can be the root of the other. In any case as usual maintenance I would certainly advice you to take the complex manifold apart and clean it all. There are plenty of o rings sealing the ram pipes that will be hardened and leaking air. Tps and oxygen sensor are a breeze to change and certainly I would go for the spark plug cables and temperature sensors. I know how bad it sounds but in this sense a spurious obd signal to the check engine light is a blessing... It is probably telling you that it's time for a good maintenance. Omar my experience is that the coils are very reliable and when they fail the engine smoothness goes bonkers. ps we are in Burgundy and drove through Trier and Saarbrucken... What a marvel these cars are. After more than 120 km at speeds of 180 to 200 we arrived at a deadlock jam... No overheating no drama no nothing... | |||
| Jean-Pierre 'JP' Hilbert Prolific User Username: jphilbert Post Number: 149 Registered: 9-2013 |
Lluis, I hope you did not forget to fuel in Luxembourg ;) | |||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Grand Master Username: lluís Post Number: 409 Registered: 8-2007 |
Lol, I did :-) seriously | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 583 Registered: 4-2012 |
Update I bought a second hand Omitec Omiscan Diagnostic system on E bay and a Mastercheck plugin cable from Flying spares now all I have to do is learn how to use it (I am more of a spanner man) and of course the check engine light has disappeared I suppose the thought of me tinkering with it scared it into submission. Richard. | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 586 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi took the Scanner along with the car to a young friend of mine and he used my scanner to check my check engine fault a Po130 and a Po135 fault was found I have ordered an Oxygen sensor, after I fit it I will erase the codes would that be the right thing to do, or other. Richard. | |||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 1604 Registered: 6-2006 |
Yes Richard.  | |||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 605 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi fitted the o2 sensor today a bit of a fiddly job, Bosh LS3645 £72 00 on e bay the exact one that came out, seen some on e bay £200 + my car is 60128, why pay more, and yes the light is out. |
1997 & Later MY Zytek Mastercheck to OBD-II