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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 177
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 07 June, 2016 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

oes sd510
Hi all
Well yesterday I had my ac re oiled (Poe)and re gassed (r134a)and it was great for an hour or so then the compressor started rattling and stop cooling.
Any ideas why it would pack up?
It's a sd 510 , is there a better compressor I could replace it with, without changing the plumbing?
Cheers
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 666
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
first things first. We will assume the following and you tell us if these assumptions are right or wrong:
1- that the car previously had R134a gas in it.
2- That the oil used is compatible with the oil that was in the system previously.
3-That the oil you used this time is made for R134a gas
4- That the system was pressurised without overpressurising the system.
5- That the technician introduced gas into the system - not liquid (by inverting the bottle to allow liquid to flow straight in).

When we have answers to these we can proceed. however - its not looking good from what you describe. Has the receiver drier ever been replaced in your ownership?
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 310
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Michael, the compressor will rattle if the gas pressure falls and cooling will cease. There may be a leak somewhere, not necessarily the compressor. A similar problem has happened with my 1983 Mulsanne and a check with pressure gauges has revealed a loss of pressure overnight.
Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 178
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 01:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar and Mark
Thanks Mark that would be a good result, I'll get it checked.
Omar the system was empty, I'm quite sure it had r12 in it many moons ago.
I changed the dryer.
Poe oil that said suitable for r134a.
The technician was very careful only putting minimum gas in.
Thanks
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 667
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 03:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
Mark is of course right. make sure you have enough gas in it because there is a low pressure cut-off that stops the compressor from engaging if there is insufficient gas. This is in order to protect it from running when there is no gas in the system (and hence oil).
If you establish that the gas has escaped, its pointless just topping up the gas - cure the leak first.
Let us know when you establish the pressures at suction and discharge.
Thanks
Omar
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 179
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 05:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Both
I have borrowed a low side pressure guage and your dead right ! I get 0 psi when running that climbs to 55psi when engine stopped.
So all I need to do now is find a leak, hopefully better than shredded compressor throughout my system!
Many thanks I can sleep better tonight, well maybe.
Many thanks
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 668
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 05:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
When testing for leaks dont forget the (often overlooked) schraeder valves as they could well be the source of leaks. The hardest leaks to find are the compressor pulley seal and the evaporator. All other components are very easy.
Good luck.
Omar
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 180
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 06:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Omar
Thanks for the tips, I think I need some leak indicator to help find it as there are no signs of any oil deposits anywhere.
Thanks for the good wishes I'll need all the luck!
Cheers
Mike
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2063
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Michael,

The flexible hoses used for R12 A/C systems are prone to leakage if later used with R134A refrigerant as the R134A molecules are much smaller than the R12 molecules and accordingly are able to diffuse out of the flexible hoses. These leaks will not be evident from a dye test - been there and done that with my 4WD R12 system.

By coincidence, the 4WD was due for its annual road worthiness check last Monday and I was chatting to the owner and mentioned I was going to get him to replace the flexible hoses to stop the refrigerant loss and he mentioned a new LPG based refrigerant had just been approved for automotive use and was ideal for old R12 systems as it did not diffuse through the R12 hoses like R134A. He mentioned the type number which I think was R406 but cannot be certain however he informed me he was able to recharge the R12 system legally with this refrigerant.

Does anyone know more about this refrigerant substitution in R12 systems?
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Jim Walters
Frequent User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 84
Registered: 1-2014
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 04:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David, here in Canada it is called Duracool. It is available at most auto supply stores. I have used it for a few years now in both my own cars and clients. I have had no problems with it at all. It cools very well, much better than 134A. Doesn't leak out in R12 hoses.

SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2065
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 08 June, 2016 - 07:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your input - very happy I can get my A/C working again without the exorbitant expense of having R134-compatible hoses and associated swaged pipe fittings custom made and then having to pull half the engine bay apart to replace them.

Our winter season has just started very late and I will get the system regassed in late September ready for Summer. Only downside is I will no longer have my mobile sauna to keep my weight down!!!
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 181
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Thursday, 09 June, 2016 - 02:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All again
I need some info , a while ago someone said there are valves that block up in the system that can and should be removed and chucked, prefilled valves? for assembly line? and I can't find them.
It now appears I have no leak but the compressor is forming a vacuum on the low side, possibly a blockage somewhere?
Cheers
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 09 June, 2016 - 04:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Michael, that is interesting,. My wife has a 1988 Bentley 8 which the aircon does not work on and exhibits exactly the same fault that you describe.The gas quantities in this are correct, and there is no leak. We have not solved this one yet and thus please let me know your findings. The pressures are 170 psi high side and around 0 lowside with the engine at 1000 rpm RS24 gas( a direct substitute for r12).

Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 182
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Thursday, 09 June, 2016 - 07:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark & All
I have a strange problem with my aircon, there is enough gas but the compressor is being starved.
Does anybody know about the conical filter ,I think it's blocked , and how do I get to it?

http://www.flyingspares.com/shop/rol...ion-valve.html

Cheers
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 674
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 09 June, 2016 - 08:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It was Paul Yorke who highlighted the in-line non-return-valves.
These are often potential blockage points and could well be the source of your problems. The downside here is that you will have to lose the gas charge to get to them.
The way to find these is as follows: firstly there are several of them in the system and secondly, they vary in location form model to model. The aluminium pipes have connections at the ends of the pipes to connect to components. when you look at the connections there will be a strange connector that almost looks out of place if you were simply designing a method of connecting a pipe to another component. These strange little things (about 1"long) are the in line valves. take these off and throw away the internal parts to ensure you simply have a hollow connector when you are done with it. Then reconnect the system without the internal parts of the valves and hopefully you will have a system that no longer has blockages.
Good luck.
Omar
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 183
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Thursday, 09 June, 2016 - 08:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Omar
Thanks for the info, I will have to lose my gas I think, shame costs me about 60quid for the gas and petrol to get.
While I have it to bits I will remove them.
Cheers
Mike
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 184
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 10 June, 2016 - 02:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

hi Omar
Is this one of those connector with valve inside?
Many thanks
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 675
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 10 June, 2016 - 04:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes.
How many of these have you got?
Someone once explained that these valves were used during initial build to ensure certain sections remained under pressure as the components were being assembled. I am sure the absolute details will be volunteered by more informed people later on in this thread.
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 185
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 10 June, 2016 - 05:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Omar
I have found 2 so far , one by the Compressor and one on the front panel.
I will have to lose my gas and remove them.
Cheers
Mike
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 187
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Monday, 13 June, 2016 - 06:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All
Well I found the service valves( 8 off )and the conical filter, what a damn idiotic stupid place to put a stupid little filter that must block up regularly! (See pic 2)
It's in the pipe that joins the txv on the bulkhead almost impossible to get at and a real pain in the backside to get back in. (arrowed in pic 1)
Never doing that again I'll do without aircon first!
If your going to do it ,HIDE THE HAMMERS !
Cheers
Mike
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 683
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 13 June, 2016 - 05:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Michael,
When you get all these inserts out, your air conditioning will work like a dream.
Good job you persevered.
Take care.
Omar
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 188
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Monday, 13 June, 2016 - 07:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All again
Just noticed from 5000 series onwards the conical filter is not fitted ! I'm going to remove mine and throw it away!
Unless someone can tell me why earlier cars needed it?
Cheers
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 312
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, 13 June, 2016 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, The filter does not appear on the parts list pre chassis 24497 (my wifes car is 22684). Is the filter between the valve and the evaporator, or the pipe and the evaporator ? I wonder if it is fitted to later cars to cure a problem; and create another .
Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 189
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 01:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark
It is between the aluminium pipe and the valve (well it was on mine).
Quote "I wonder if it is fitted to later cars to cure a problem; and create another" , you could well be right.
The txv is a different number too but looks the same.
But your wifes car has the same symtoms so I'm sure there's a blockage somwhere.
Good luck
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 313
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 03:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, I guess that the TXV is blocked. I will start there.
Mark
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 686
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 03:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Mark,
what is a TXV?
Thanks
Omar
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 314
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 03:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar it is the expansion valve UR70281 on the library parts diagram .I bet the filter on the later cars is to cure a blockage issue on early cars.
Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 190
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 05:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Omar
It's this one on my car ok
http://www.flyingspares.com/shop/rolls-royce-spirit-spur-bentley-turbo-mulsanne/air-conditioning/fridge-pump/evaporator-expansion-valve/expansion-valve-ud73898p.html

I think it's the main part where liquid becomes gas.
best wishes
Mike
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 191
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 14 June, 2016 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark , Omar &All
I've added a picture ofn where the service valves are there are 2 in each connectoer ok
hope that helps
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 315
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 05:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike, thanks I will investigate our car and report back. how do the check valve innards come out ? Will probably be the end of the month before I get to it, but I have ordered a spanner I need which is missing from my set today!
Mark
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 249
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 07:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark...
Side topic...where is the "library parts diagram" you alluded to in your message of 14 June at 3:48? I would certainly like to find just that reference for research regarding all the problems I am having with my recent acquisition, SRK37338. Thank you.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2074
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 08:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

There is a Spirit Spare Parts manual in the Technical Library:

http://rrtechnical.info/sz/tsd6167/start.pdf

The list is in a PDF format for downloading.
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 316
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 09:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian, I was referring to the Rolls Royce and Bentley technical library .The parts lists show the assembly diagrams and part numbers.
http://rrtechnical.info/
I sympathise with the problems you are having, every car I have bought with a good service history has ended up having work redone due to less than acceptable repairs.
Mark
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 252
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark and David...
Thanks to both of you. This is embarassing, as apparently senility is creeping up on me. I would swear that in search of the parts manaul, that I specifically went to the "004" section of the library for pre-30,000 chassis, but did not see the part manual there...I swear! I just checked, and lo and behold, there it is! Now I would like to assert that someone is playing tricks on me, but will also have to accept that I previously looked right at it, and did not see it! Bad me! Now that I KNOW that it is there, next time I seek it, but cannot find it, I will take a nap and then try again later, when my brain and eyes are not fooling with me...!
Christian
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 192
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 15 June, 2016 - 07:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mark
They just push out some in and some out if you follow me ok
Cheers
Mike
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 203
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Friday, 24 June, 2016 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All
Well chuffed EVERYTHING works aircon seat memories , everything on the car works like new!
I'm a happy bunny
Thanks for all the help
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 320
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, 04 July, 2016 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike just stripped aircon system, blockage was at conical filter and the receiver /drier seems to be source of filth! I have ordered a new receiver /drier, but did you refit the filter ?
Mark
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michael vass
Prolific User
Username: mikebentleyturbo2

Post Number: 204
Registered: 7-2015
Posted on Monday, 04 July, 2016 - 03:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi mark
No I didn't and it's still working great.
It's up to you if you do but seems more trouble than it's worth.
Good luck
Mike
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, 09 July, 2016 - 09:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Mike, receiver /dryer fitted, regassed with RS24, Cold air at last ! Thanks for help everyone.
Mark

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