| Author | Message | ||
     Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 426 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Folks, I want to remove the dashboard from the '66 cadaver car but I can't find how to cut the Gordian knot. I'm sure that once I see a major point of attachment, I'll be able to deduce the rest. Where do I start? Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2025 Registered: 6-2009 |
Chris, Have you looked at Chapter S, specifically section S10 - Miscellaneous Trim? Here's the link to the second half of Chapter S, start at PDF page 43. If you're asking what I think you're asking that should get you rolling. Brian | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 333 Registered: 4-2015 |
Brian...or should I say "Brain"?...you are the undisputed expert and champion at finding prior posts and basically being organized and I seem to recall one post recently (past 6 months or so?) that went into details about the various screws and attachment points and especially the "hidden" ones...with photos as I recall...but regretably I cannot find it. Do you recall that post? I really need to print it out and keep with the service manual. Help? Thank you, Sir! | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1324 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Christian The post may have been one of mine, but it was written for the later SY1. http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/18380.html?1439780385 The interesting thing is Bill Coburn had already covered it in tee-one topics. It must be of some annoyance for him to see so many entries in this forum that he has already covered. http://rrtechnical.info/TeeOne/TO72.pdf It's on page 1010. There is also a really interesting article on page 1005 of this issue about the difficulty, historically, of obtaining manuals for RR cars. At the end of the article Bill announces, with no fanfare whatsoever, the release of the Workshop Manuals in the Technical Library. This is something that has been of immeasurable value to RR owners the world over. This was February 2008. There should be an annual world holiday to celebrate this. I love the picture of the battered Silver Cloud with the caption "maybe, just maybe if the manuals had been readily available ... " Thanks Bill. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2027 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, Thanks for jumping in. I seemed to have remembered this as being a thread in which you were active, but I couldn't come up with the correct combination of keywords for a search to let me narrow it down. I also thought that fascia removal along with other dash/console sections had been covered, more than once, in Tee-One Topics. Brian, who also thanks Bill Coburn and all those responsible for the work of scanning the vast library of technical materials on a daily basis. Even though I don't know who all of you are, you do, and your work is greatly appreciated. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 431 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Brian, I hadn't seen that. It is only the one page and I didn't recognize it. I skipped right over it. This was helpful. Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2029 Registered: 6-2009 |
Chris, Yeah, yeah, yeah. You and that other slug Christian were just waiting for me to do the work for you!! [I hope that emoticons are not necessary here to convey humorous intent.] Brian | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 335 Registered: 4-2015 |
Brian... Perhaps we should desist from humorous intent as too easily misunderstood. Your lot in life is being very adept at what you do and thus the rest of us tend to rely on that ability, but it does not deserve insult. Slug? I attempt to make it clear I appreciate your efforts and if you do not wish to help, then do not. Problem is that there is simply so much information...service manuals to 1000 pages with no convenient index, and Tee One Topics (which I love reading and appreciate) also is over 1000 pages. It often takes longer to find where something is discussed than to actually resolve the issue. Accessing the information is the stumbling block. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 432 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Christian, Relax! Brian was joking! He harbors no malice. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Brian's ability benefits us all. Chris. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2030 Registered: 6-2009 |
Christian, Obviously I was mistaken in assuming that the statement that an emoticon noting humor was not necessary. Get a sense of one. I have been nothing but helpful to you and would have thought this sort of obvious ribbing in humor would have been taken as such. I even went so far as to identify it as such. Brian | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2015 |
Obvious is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it was in jest, but it was hurtful just the same. In my business and personal relationships I have found it best to avoid any unpleasantness by simply avoiding such comments suffixed with a disclaimer since they leave the recipient of the comment wondering if it was the comment or the disclaimer that was in jest. and then transferring guilt by suggesting that the recipient get a sense of humor. One should not need that type of sense of humor if the comments were not made. Enough. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2032 Registered: 6-2009 |
Christian, Please feel free to steer clear of me going forward. I have been a well known smartass around many parts for a very long time. It's who I am and I have no intention of changing that for you. Nor should I have to. Get over yourself. Brian | ||
| ross kowalski Frequent User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2015 |
Chris, did you get the dash out? I am assuming you are pulling the vinyl dash top cover piece.? I pulled my 1970 dash recently, and they are probably the same. I installed a new speaker as the old one had a dried out cone. If I thought about it, I could maybe write down the procedure I followed / made up. | ||
| Chris Miller Grand Master Username: cjm51213 Post Number: 433 Registered: 5-2013 |
Hi Ross, I have a '72 and a '66 cadaver car. The '66 has a much more elegant interior, and several more gauges -- notably temperature and oil pressure, with room for a tach. I suspect that the dashboard attachments are the same, meaning I should be able to remove the dash from the '66 and install it in the '72. But I won't know until I have removed the '66 dashboard. This is complicated by the history of the '72, which is "SRH", but LHD, so somebody has already done a major dashboard modification, and left me some instrumentation bugs in the process. On the '66, I have successfully removed the "cap" and I have removed all the obvious attachments, but there are still a fair number hidden deep within the structure. This may not be possible to transplant as "a unit", and it may require decomposing the '66 cadaver car dashboard into "modules", which may actually be easier, if the "modules" on the '72 are similar enough. I'm going slowly and I may, at any time, decide it is not feasible. In direct response to your question, the two bolts at the extreme ends, well below eye-level, were "hidden" meaning I didn't know how to find them, although I could tell that they were there. A bit of contemplation in the driver's seat with a cold beer and I was able to find and remove them, because I knew where they had to be. The bigger problem for me will be removing the "cap" in the '72 without marring anything. The "cap" on the '66 was badly degraded and I only needed to worry about salvaging the skeleton. On the '72, I have a much more cosmetically perfect "cap" that I need to be sure is not damaged in the operation. The attachments are completely hidden and Geoff Wooton's post unlocks the secrets. I'm probably going to hear a lot of whining and complaining about, "Why?", but to head that off, it's my hobby car and I like the '66 interior better, so I'm going to do it if I can. Thanks for the help, Chris. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1345 Registered: 5-2012 |
Chris You won't hear me asking "why". I think the earlier dash is by far the best. I also believe this move away from originality will have no effect on the price should you ever wish to sell the car. It seems to me the later SY1 dashboards were put together quickly to satisfy the changing regulations in the US. I believe they had called for padded dashboards for safety reasons. Personally I'd prefer to drive with the earlier "dangerous" dash. As far as I am concerned, wearing a seatbelt more than mitigates the risk of injury from the earlier dash. I hope you don't have to abandon the project. Geoff | ||
| ross kowalski Frequent User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2015 |
Chris, Yeah the cap removal did have all kinds of fasteners hidden by the factory to keep the look "clean" When I dug into things, I just went slowly and remembered that the car was built by men with tools. No special anything, just accessible fasteners. The old hot rod saying about engine swaps always seems to prove true "everything fits everything". I guess it is just how much time and money you want to throw at it. I like the original interior a great deal more than the late one as well. If I had an early parts car I would really have the thing about this swap. | ||
| John Beech Experienced User Username: jbeech Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2016 |
So how about pictures Chris? Posts like these could be so very much more valuable with photos! For example, what's the early dash look like as compared to the later dash? You mention gauges, are they Smiths as well? And mention is made of lack of dash padding. What's it made of, painted steel, wood, leather over steel?!? John, thinking the quote about pictures being worth a thousand words is especially apropos. | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 425 Registered: 4-2015 |
John... Photos of the early dash, or portions thereof, occur in other threads, but since you asked, this will give you an idea. It is from my MPW Coupe (CRX24542) but is quite similar to that in the standard saloon of the same vintage, i.e. pre-1969 with the dash commonly referred to as the "chippendale dash" that is more generous in terms of wood and chrome projecting goodies.  | ||
| John Beech Frequent User Username: jbeech Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2016 |
Christian, It's very kind of you to post this photo. I agree this is a very, very handsome example. However, the padded portion above and below the wood look exactly like those above and below Tootsie's instrument panel (she's SRX6816, a 1969 model). What's obviously different about yours (as nearly as I can discern from the low resolution image you were allowed to upload) versus Tootsie's is you have instruments to display volts, oil pressure (or temperature, I cannot be certain) as well as water temperature. My panel is devoid of those and has warning lights instead. While lights are very useful because they'll let me know when disaster is upon me in time to advert it with prompt action, a gauge gives me information I can integrate with other factors, e.g. how far away I am from home (or a service station), how quickly the change is occurring, and of course, perhaps allow me to notice impending doom before the damage is catastrophic. Anyway, I'm unsure about modifying Tootsie's panel (I know Robert Noel has been unafraid of modifying his panel). This, not because of the work involved but because I am loathe to make a change that will affect her virginal status as an unaltered car (by and large anything goes if the new can be removed and the old remounted in it's place). New holes (or enlarged existing holes) in that lovely piece of wood don't qualify. I may, however, be able to discretely mount an adjunct instrument cluster within line of sight that won't detract. I will seriously ponder this because the value of engine instrumentation goes without saying. Last thing, what is an MPW Coupe? Photos would be nice! John, whose antique airplane is loaded with instruments and who is dismayed at the lack of basic information in Tootsie's panel. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 709 Registered: 4-2016 |
John, Christians MPW Shadow coup is quite magnificent. I look forward to seeing any images of it as well. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 710 Registered: 4-2016 |
Christian What is that mounted to your glove box/compartment lid? | ||
| John Beech Frequent User Username: jbeech Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2016 |
Yes, I'm sure it is magnificent, and I daresay photos would be lovely . . . but what does MPW mean? For example, I have seen James Young used in reference to some of these cars but MPW is terminology, which is new to me. | ||
| h_kelly Prolific User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 207 Registered: 3-2012 |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulliner_Park_Ward MPW.coach builder | ||
| John Beech Frequent User Username: jbeech Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2016 |
Aha, MPW explained. I have read about the Park Ward versions but had not made the connection. I hope Christian posts photos of his example. I once missed the opportunity to purchase a 1969 James Young located in Miami that, while customized to the point of distraction for some tastes, appealed to me so strongly I continue to carry a torch to this day (and kept photos). I made every effort to purchase her but someone in CA beat me to the punch (and to the best of my knowledge, it resides there to this day).  - Quartering front view of a unique turquoise flame job  - The business end of a vintage luxo-coupe with flames  - Gorgeous turquoise flames - detailed close up  - Sporting nice aluminum alloys for a great stance - anyone recognize them, or are they RR OEM, perhaps?  - Note the tasteful color-coordinated interior trim welting - seemingly based on original hides - implying the labor of disassembly and resewing.  - Some details unattended on this custom job In closing, while it's not an ideal car for many, I think it's pretty darn nice . . . and would (on some days) suit me perfectly! On others (most), Tootsie's elegant low key appearance really suits me far better. Nevertheless, I can only imagine the great personalities involved in creating this beautiful car. Not shy, eh? Finally, if anyone knows of its owner, or location, I'd love to learn more. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 712 Registered: 4-2016 |
Well John, It certainly is DIFFERENT! | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 426 Registered: 4-2015 |
Patrick... The item on the glove box door is a Heuer timepiece of the same era as the car. I know nothing about timepieces, or Heuer in particular, other than that they were apparently used by rally enthusiasts, however I cannot see what advantage they would provide that the dash mounted clock does not and it is thus rather redundant and to my uneducated mind, little more than a fashionable accessory.   John... While I believe that I have posted photos of the Mulliner-Park Ward Coupe somewhere, sometime in the past, I have no recollection where, or when, so include a sideview here. The MPW was relatively rare and a custom built, custom build RR, considering that most all RR were custom built anyway. Apparently only 200 or so were built and only a portion of those with the very early dashboard which is distinctly different from the "safety dashboard" mandated by the Nanny State beginning in 1969. The MPW designation was superceeded by "Corniche" in 1971 I believe.  . | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2323 Registered: 4-2003 |
Christian, You are correct, the MPW designation was used by R-R prior to the British Government nationalisation of Roll-Royce in 1971 after the RB211 jet engine fiasco. The car division was sold and the new owners adopted the Corniche nameplate for the 2 door Shadow derivatives shortly afterwards presumably for the US market where MPW had no cachet with prospective purchasers. If my memory is correct, the Corniche models were the most expensive regular production cars in the world at this time. Even today, their appearance still appeals and they stand out from the amorphous shape of present-day production cars designed in wind tunnels to provide best-possible fuel consumption. | ||
| John Beech Frequent User Username: jbeech Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2016 |
Christian, The dash is fantastic! Some detail photos of the lower portion would be very much appreciated. And I mean that in the literal sense because I would like to appreciate the details I can not see at present. Anyway, I just looked and see you're in CA so it's unlikely I'll ever see your car in person, but she's lovely (or is she a he?). Sorry but I name everything and were she mine, she'd be Rosé. John, who falls in love regularly . . . and has fallen hard for Rosé | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 716 Registered: 4-2016 |
Told you Christians car is quite magnificent John!  | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 717 Registered: 4-2016 |
Nice bit of kit Christian. A dual barrel 8 day timepiece by Heuer. These were made in the 60's to be fitted to instrument panels of race cars & aircraft. The standard instrument mount wouldn't look out of place in Vlads Camargue. Seems a bit far away for the diver to make use of it? Maybe for passenger use? | ||
| Stefan Ihnat Experienced User Username: stefan87 Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2017 |
Do not you know what screws are needed to hold the wood on the deck? I have Silver Shadow from 1974 and I am from Czech Republice. I have a problem here getting the screws in inch. Only metrics. I've been looking for ebay for several hours but I can not find the few screws anywhere. Thank you for tips. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2662 Registered: 4-2003 |
Stefan, Try searching for BA fasteners - this is a thread type widely used by R-R/B in their cars, clock makers and electronic equipment manufacturers plus the model engineering fraternity. A magazine for model engineers will have advertisements from suppliers of BA fasteners and taps and dies for making your own fasteners. "Model Engineer" magazine from the UK would be a good place to start: http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/ The home page has links to suppliers of fastener and threading tools. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1515 Registered: 5-2015 |
Stefen also Screw Fix of the UK. To make it worth while also order up the UNF sizes for future use. |
