| Author | Message | ||
     Kevin Deasy Experienced User Username: kevin1946 Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2017 |
I want to change my good 84 Spirit for a 1987 with ABS,this is because I drive a few hundred miles a week at 60 to 80 MPH I have found a good 1987 Bentley Torbo R with 109,000 miles 4 owners & a reasonable service history.Is this a lot of miles for a turbo R,do they give more trouble than a non turbo,Are they reliable,what problems do they give,how are they on fuel.ALL thoughts & opinions would be appreciated. Kevin Deasy | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1105 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Kevin, There will be a lot of advice offered from lots of people - here is mine: The 87 vs 84 gives you a more complex car with more to go wrong but all these benefits I think outweigh the disadvantages. The ABS and Fuel injection are in my opinion improvements that I prefer although others may not. The turbo is a sweet addition to help you smile a little more. There is less space for you to work in the engine compartment than what you have been used to but the difference is not such a big deal. The steering is heavier on the Turbo R than the Rolls too. Reliability is purely a function of the owner's competence with these cars. I would take the 87 Turbo over the 84 Spirit any day. | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 103 Registered: 6-2010 |
I don't really understand why people worry about mileage (myself included sadly!) as these cars were built to the highest standards and should be good for double, treble that mileage if maintained. In fact, I do know of one Turbo R of a similar vintage to the one you propose to buy with nearly 300K miles on the clock all with the same owner, who doesn't exactly baby the car! It is quite shabby in the body now (sits outside all year round) but mechanically sweet as ever, but it is maintained correctly. At that mileage she should be good to go so long as it has recent service history and not from years ago with nothing in the last 5 years. | ||
| Jean-Pierre 'JP' Hilbert Prolific User Username: jphilbert Post Number: 162 Registered: 9-2013 |
A friend of mine here in Luxembourg got his hands on a 1992 Turbo R in Spirit disguise. Spirit looks and Spirit suspension, Turbo R performance, and center console. It was a not-so-rare factory approved modification done by some renowned coachbuilder. Too late to wake up my dude now but if you want to pursue the idea of finding such a car, I'll fetch some details tomorrow! | ||
| Alan Ford Prolific User Username: herne13 Post Number: 151 Registered: 8-2016 |
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe its wrong to beef up a cars performance and then hinder it with smooth but somewhat spongy suspension. But I guess the owner disagrees with me as will others  It's ok guys I have my flameproof overalls on ;) | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 706 Registered: 4-2012 |
I agree with you Alan, it is what it is. Richard. | ||
| gary webb New User Username: webbgw Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2014 |
hi alan yes upgrade suspension and brakes gary | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1127 Registered: 4-2016 |
Alan, I've driven hard arsed sports type cars for ever. I think it's them that gave me a bad back. The soft, but progressive ride in SRH12255 is kind of fun. I find it refreshing powering out of a bend In a car that can handle like the Queen Mary without having to rev the crap out of an engine based on horse power. The massive creamy torque and actually man handling the big girls arse out of a nice bend is very rewarding to me. | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 164 Registered: 7-2012 |
Both the fuel injection system and ABS were lifted from well tried other makes and in my opinion have proven to be pretty reliable IF they are maintained and serviced. The Arnage Red Label has reputation for eating head gaskets but the '87 cars were not producing that much power. The fuel injection apparently gives better consumption than non turbo, only because there is so much power, it cannot be used if the car is driven very sensibly because at 70mph one needs to back off the throttle! Look at 0-60 and 60-90mph! Kevin, go for it. | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2016 |
So what year is considered the best for these series, something from the late 80s - which one? | ||
| Mark Luft Experienced User Username: bentleyman1993 Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2016 |
Kevin, I have a 93 Turbo R LWB, on the road i'm getting 17.5 mpg (US). This car has the 4 speed auto with 4th being overdrive. At 70 mph the engine is turning over at 1800 rpm. Starts on the button. The later cars topping 400 hp have been the most problematic with the head gaskets in my research. I found the cars from the 80's were much less expensive, I wanted the 4 speed trans. Good luck with your hunt. Mark | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1106 Registered: 4-2009 |
My 87 and 88 Spurs were very good cars indeed. Very little went wrong with them. My 90s cars that I have now have more things on them to go wrong but they are all turbocharged and lots more fun to enjoy. | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2016 |
When did the 4-speed overdrive come into play? And which models are coupes versus sedans? And when did engines become troublesome, mar, and are there ones to avoid like the plague (Red Label Arnage?!?) Sorry if my question are naive but I don't know very much about the Bentley variants as compared to what I've learned regarding Tootsie and her Series I Silver Shadow siblings. | ||
| Michael Hicks Prolific User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 130 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi I have had RR&B's from different Periods but must say my 1997 is the best it Ticks all the Box's and More there is a lot of chatter about Head Gaskets ECU braking Down and other Things yes things do happen but it happens to your BMW Your AUDI and every other cars with the 1997 if i want i can drive it as a car go on Holiday or just go to Lidl  | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1142 Registered: 4-2016 |
John, The end of 1991 saw the intro of the GM 4L80E 4 speed auto. This was for both Rolls Royce & Bentley. | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2016 |
When did the 'new' cars come into being? E.g. the ones with a BMW or Volkswagen engine? I read a bit on Wikipedia and came away confused. I wonder because I've seen newer Bentley motorcars that are downright affordable, e.g. <$50K range but have also heard horror stories about repair bills of $10-15k. Or like having to drop the engine from below to replace spark plugs - yikes! Also, that some cars have the Volkswagen W12 engine like was installed in the VW Phaeton (before having so much trouble they replaced it with an Audi V8 - and note, all this is hearsay so please don't take me behind the woodshed if I have the details wrong). Anyway, I'm a bit confused whether what I have heard is related to Rolls-Royce or Bentley, or both. The point of my asking is to learn more about where the demarcation line is between 'real' Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars, and the new ones. There seems to be a messy demarcation because I'm looking at a 2001 automobile and it seems to have an engine and body style like mid-1990 models, so what gives? Oh and quite frankly, this is merely academic curiosity right now because I am quite pleased with Tootsie, e.g. not looking seriously to buy anything else at present (Lynn's reading over my shoulder and raised an eyebrow and said "Humph", or something like that under her breath because she recently caught me eyeballing a listing for a 2001 Bentley Arnage RED that can be acquired for throw away money). Speaking of which, someone above has warned us about that specific car (unfortunately without sharing any details regarding why and what to look out for). Anyway, this car looks pretty darn nice and is reasonable money. FWIW, my definition of 'reasonable' revolves around my concept of a throwaway car, like a Honda Civic, e.g. $20-25K. Anything less than that and Lynn's pretty much OK with me buying on impulse while much more than that sees me thinking harder about it (and usually talking myself out of it). Also, while I paid a premium for Tootsie (based on prices for similar vintage cars), her superb condition and low mileage warranted the extra in my view so I will climb out on the branch if needs be because I believe in my core that nothing is quite so expensive as buying the cheapest example of what you really want. Added to which, the deal for Tootsie came about after a fair bit of looking (6 months) and at a time when I specifically wanted something relatively simple to own (e.g. pre-computer not so much mechanically-simple . . . there's a difference in my eyes). | ||
| Jeff Young Grand Master Username: jeyjey Post Number: 306 Registered: 10-2010 |
Hi John, The first were the Arnage (with BMW V8) and Silver Seraph (with BMW V12). Next came the split, with Ghost, Phantom, etc becoming all-BMW, and Arnage very shortly going back to the venerable 6-3/4 we all know and love (which soldiers on in the Mulsanne). Somewhere in there the Continental GT came out, which was all-VW, including the W12. So yes, messy. Cheers, Jeff | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1109 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dera John, Arnages and Seraphs are cheap now because they are relatively crap compared to the real RR and B cars of the earlier eras. For me the line is drawn at this point. Anything pre Arnage and Seraph is good - anything after is a concern. However I am very close to buying a Phantom - just as soon as I can assure myself that I can maintain the bugger myself. | ||
| gordon le feuvre Prolific User Username: triumph Post Number: 166 Registered: 7-2012 |
Was at launch of BMW powered Arnage at Crewe/Millbrook proving ground. Whilst on paper the BMW 4.4 had similar power/torque to last of "Crewe" cars(SZ), when actually driven, it had to be revved like a rally car to get it going. Someone at Crewe told me that the "old team" knew that this power unit would not be a success and that the chassis/body of the Arnage was designed in such a way that the faithful V8 could be retro fitted. This is of course what happened. Truth or fiction? Who said no substitute for cubes. So my view is the last of the lineage would be SZ 1997/8 That said, life moves on and we just got to get on with it. With the best will in the world, a SZ chassis does have it's limitations compared with later developments. | ||
| Jonas TRACHSEL Prolific User Username: jonas_trachsel Post Number: 116 Registered: 2-2005 |
Continental GT series: These are the ones where the W12 engine has to be dropped for servicing. VW pushed these cars briskly into the market, therefor many 2nd hand ones are around for little money. The 4.4 litre BMW engines are pretty bullet proof, but as has been said, somehow do not fit the character of a R-R. Arnage with 6.75 l V8: These have a bad reputation for head gasket failure and worn-out camshafts/tappets. I do not know how the spares situation is at the moment, but there was a period when there were simply no camshafts and tappets available even at the price of around $ 15'000 for parts alone. Head gasket failure mostly comes from thrashing these engines COLD. They must be warmed up carefully before enjoying their oomph. JoT | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1151 Registered: 4-2016 |
There are only 5 Seraphs in Australia. Quite a rare item here. | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 105 Registered: 6-2010 |
I agree with Omars comments above: anything post SZ range (Turbo R, Spirit etc) are just not the real deal. I could have had a 7 year newer continental gt for £500 less than my car (98 Brooklands R) cost but didn't even look at it. I have seen the problems with servicing on these later cars - £5K to change a starter motor - engine out, and complete front of car off to do so. If I wanted a VW (I really don't) then I would buy one and save an enormous amount of cash. I also believe (though I am often wrong)that the old V8 from 'our' cars was dropped a few years ago but it cost VW £300 million to get it to be 'legal' for them to resume using it when they dropped the BMW engine. Also, that V8 from BMW is not trouble free: it was also used in various Range Rovers of the time (plus Morgans) and the timing chains can give problems in higher mile examples - a friend of mine has a Range Rover with this engine and his just cost him £2500 to fix the chain. Of course, all of the above could be wrong/hearsay as I am quite unwell today/yesterday and in a sulky mood! | ||
| Jeff Young Grand Master Username: jeyjey Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2010 |
The Arnage 6.75 went to roller tappets and MLS head gaskets in 2007, which appear to have fixed both issues Jonas mentioned. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1110 Registered: 4-2009 |
The Seraph/Arnage are poorly built cars compared to our older era cars. Look at the relatively cheaper materials that make the interior (not leather components) and you will see that build quality is nothing like the older cars. You can buy Seraphs quite cheaply now - but dont do it. The disappointment will not be worth it. I personally think that they look dated already yet the older cars look classy. | ||
| Michael Hicks Prolific User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 131 Registered: 12-2011 |
We went to see a Arnage It was a 2003 car and the build Quality was Ruff (this was 2010) Then we went to a Bentley Dealer to look at £75000 car that was in the show room the wife looked at me at the and said to the sales man If this is the Best you have we wont bother it had done 20000 miles on Jersey all its short life i am still running | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2016 |
Folks, I guess I didn't make myself very clear. I was not only interested in knowing about the end of the 'original' Shadow-based cars (I understand the answer to be 1997/98), but I also have a passing interest in coupes, specifically. What's the best of that bunch? This, because I am quite taken by a photo of one of Omar's car. http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/24214.jpg Anyway, while I can readily see it's a Bentley (and is there an RR equivalent?), unfortunately I have no other clue regarding which model or year this represents. However, one thing is quite clear; friend Omar is quite obviously a man of very good taste. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1112 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear John, You are too kind. The Continental R is a very pretty car and is the one car that didnt have a Rolls-Royce equivalent. Its convertible sister is the Azure which also did not have a Rolls-Royce equivalent. Conversely Rolls-Royce also made post 95 Corniche which did not have a Bentley equivalent. The Continental R and Azure are the same car as the Turbo R but they wear sexier clothes. | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2016 |
Thanks for the explanation, Omar. I poked around to see what was available and the pickings were slim (and also more that throwaway money). This last detail means I cannot buy on a whim. Regardless, I stand by what I said regarding your taste (which upon further reflection, is impeccable). Now I lust after two of your cars instead of one! I'll patiently keep an eye on the market for an R or Azure so that next year, or even 20 years from now . . . | ||
| Jonas TRACHSEL Prolific User Username: jonas_trachsel Post Number: 120 Registered: 2-2005 |
David wrote: "I don't really understand why people worry about mileage (myself included sadly!) as these cars were built to the highest standards and should be good for double, treble that mileage if maintained." I absolutely agree with this statement. Point. But: stand a low mileage car (assume unused for a couple years) and a well maintained high mileage car of the same model/year side-by-side and compare the cost to bring each of these two up to a comparable, high standard. I bet the low mileage car costs less to refurbish mechanically than to bring the interior and the bodywork of the high mileage car to a near-show standard. David has said it already: a 300k miles car not only looks shabby, but does feel worn, even when mechanically well maintained. My twopence worth..... JoT | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1117 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear John, I drive the Continental R one day and the Azure the next day. I love both cars and they are identical in so many ways. If I had to give one of them up I would end up with only the Azure as this car is just amazing with the top down. When you get chicks talking to you at the lights always remember its not because you are George Clooney - It is because the car is sexy and your wallet may appear tempting to them. Jonas - the number of Rolls-Royces and Bentleys I have come across with faulty speedometers is frightening. Never believe what the speedos actually tell you. I have had several speedos on many cars fail and in fact one car had the old speedo in the boot as proof that the previous owner had changed it. I do take your point of lower mileage vs higher mileage cars where the mileages are a like for like comparison. | ||
| Alan Ford Prolific User Username: herne13 Post Number: 158 Registered: 8-2016 |
After reading Omar's delightful story of traffic lights and chicks is there someone here who can cut the top off of Benny? ;) | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 1118 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thats so funny Alan - love your sense of humour!! | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 214 Registered: 10-2016 |
Alan, Reference a photo of a black Roller with a tasteful (mild) chop in another thread. But that one was welded back on. Of course, if you plan to never drive in the rain, then carry on because a Sawzall is the preferred tool around here. Meanwhile, I'm with Omar on the virtues of a convertible and were it me, I too would rather the Azure. Speaking of convertibles, I had one when I met my bride nearly 40 years ago and have owned a few over the years - the most recent this 1969 Corvette. And while not a 10/10 show car, e.g. one that basically lived on a trailer as she was moved from show to show, mine was a very solid 8/10 in all respects with a mere 51k miles on the clock when I sold her. Nice car. Fun to drive for about 7 months of the year (October through April) before it begins to be too hot and muggy from 9AM until 9PM.  - 1969 350/350 - bag on the rack and a leisurely drive to Cedar Key for the weekend  - Not immaculate but a very nice driver - 100% original - and in really good condition  - Premium gas isn't optional - but much more relaxed than the 427 in my first Corvette Finally, with respect to young chickadies making nice at the stop light whilst driving a convertible; I'm a tremendous flirt and will smile and make nice right back! However, because I approach 59 in a few weeks and am under no illusions about my appearance, I too know what they're really smiling about. Nevertheless, my obvious charm notwithstanding, this old dog only sleeps at home! | ||
| Mark Luft Experienced User Username: bentleyman1993 Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2016 |
John, I'd much rather have a nice driver instead of a show car. Whatever it would be, I WANT TO DRIVE IT! And really, isn't that what cars were made to do? I helped a good friend restore his 64 Vett. Wonderful car but every time he drove it he was a nervous wreck. One day, while over at my house with his car, he yelled at the kids that were riding their bicycles on the sidewalk near his precious car. I sent him home. Your 69 looks great! I love the information on the center console. If it were a 69 Bentley, the horsepower and torque figures would just say "Adequate". | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 110 Registered: 6-2010 |
I have a nice saloon and a nice convertible, so there! Granted, the nice convertible is only a Mazda MX 5 and an elderly one at that but no one, man, woman or fish, smiles at me when I drive any of my cars. However, lots of people smile at the dogs in the car: back windows down and heads hanging out, drool and slobber sliding down the rear doors of my expensive paint job, Chester occasionally barking at some other dog as it has to walk to the park whereas he gets to ride in comfort, or, two dogs squabbling over who sits where in a two seater car and while they would both prefer to drive, they have to make do with the passenger seat though sometimes Chester stands on the passenger seat with his front paws on the dash top so he can look over the windscreen for the full 'wind in the ears' effect. Not a single woman has thrown herself at me in years! | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 751 Registered: 2-2013 |
I had a convertible Bentley SIII. It was right hand drive and I had bought it in Arizona with two aimed bullet holes right through the back windscreen/windshield. RR in OZ wanted $6000 for a replacement screen. It was a sedan so I chopped the roof off with an angle grinder in under an hour. It looked super cool. I completely and fully intended to avoid having to pay for an original and to eventually make it into a better convertible than what Crewe ever made with the roof disappearing below the body line. I then welded the roof back on. Then I sold it to another Soviet, a jeweller, and fled to Russia where apart from police bribes I drank the proceeds in under a month. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1180 Registered: 4-2016 |
This is my convertible with 21 inch wheels. People don't need to know its 92 years old when I tell them about it  I agree with John, just be nice right back at em!  | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1114 Registered: 9-2004 |
Patrick this one is the 1922 four ninety. Who cares about the year when you have a powerful motor ie overhead valves and RHD. The thing that I have not found out is the exhaust type heater pickup, is it for carb warming or maybe for a demisting of the screen.   | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1185 Registered: 4-2016 |
Nice 490 there Pat. 490 model as they were RRP of $490 when released. Very nice example mate. Below are some pics from mine. The pick up from the engine pipe is for my carby.  Does your carby have the round opening where mine has the steel heating duct attached? I have seen some with a pod type air filter just sticking out of the back of the carby. Below, you can just see where the steel heat pipe picks up from my engine pipe and goes around the back of the engine. Runs like a busted arse with this pipe off that's for sure.  Below shows a can with angled perforations underneath it to spin heavy items to the side of the can. This is the air cleaner, but there is no filter.  | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1115 Registered: 9-2004 |
Patrick that is one clean motor you have there. Thanks for the info looks like the carb on the roadster has been got at over the years, the carb is low[extended manifold] with the inlet so close to the starter! The carb heater pipe should be fitted and returned to how the setup is on yours. maybe the carb is incorrect as well going by yours. The engine on this 490 superior does not seem to have had the rocker cover. Is the distributor fitted on yours a Delco Remy type Thanks again for your help.  | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1192 Registered: 4-2016 |
Hi Patrick, It not to clean mate Your extended carby inlet is correct. The older ones are like this. When the model change to K happened there were quite a few mods. Does your compliance plate read Superior F? Also the earlier models did not have rocker covers either, so that is correct. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1116 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hi Patrick, the car number name plate I have removed the last few numbers but at the start of the number nine I know nothing about but the "B" is I think is what is needed. enclose a picture of the plate.  | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1193 Registered: 4-2016 |
Nice, Yes a Superior B Then F, then K (mine) then lastly V. Next was tha AA Capitol, then the last Chev 4was the AB National in 28. Seems all you are missing is the heat tube. The holes in your sleeved engine pipe are the inlet holes. At the moment she is just getting air from the carby opening? | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1322 Registered: 4-2016 |
Hi Patrick, How did you get on with your Chev? |
