| Author | Message | ||
     Justin Brooker Yet to post message Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2013 |
Good morning to all you Rolls Royce enthusiasts out there. I am writing to seek your learned opinions on a potential purchase of vehicle. I am twenty three and looking to buy my next vehicle. I had been quite fixated on either a mid 90's S Class or 7 Series. Recently however, I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman who owned a Rolls Royce. I had the privilege of going for a drive in his 1987 Silver Spirit and it was, without doubt, the most incredible vehicle I have ever driven. This has gotten me searching the market for suitable RR's. I have done much research and understand the importance of a COMPLETE pre purchase inspection beforehand. And being the meticulous OCD buyer I am, I will be purchasing one that is in immaculate condition inside and out only. My budget is, at maximum, $20,000 but the $15,000 mark would be better. I have been pleasantly surprised with what is available for that price. I have currently been looking at two - a 1985 Silver Spirit and a 1990 Silver Spirit II. Could people please advise me of the pro's and con's of both editions? I have heard many say that the II had large electronic changeovers from mechanical which has made them a nightmare maintenance-wise compared to the older ones, but others have counter claimed this and said many of the earlier issues were ironed out. The II certainly looks more modern and has extra things (like heated seats, which I LOVE) but I think I'd rather have the reliable model over the one with a few extra gadgets. I am also curious as to fuel. Now obviously 1985 and above will run on unleaded, as will the 1990. Is regular unleaded alright for either model, or do they both need 98RON? A few people who own them who I have spoken to only run regular, but I'm curious to hear others' views. Justin | ||
| David Thomas Experienced User Username: davidthomas Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Justin! Quite apart from any helpful advice others will offer you on here, as the Senior Vice-President of the Victoria/Tasmania Branch of the Rolls-Royce Owners' Club of Australia, I can put you in touch with members who can also provide you with valuable advice. Please email me at snr-v-president@rrocavictoria.org.au Cheers, David | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 96 Registered: 10-2008 |
Justin , my son was your age when he bought a very tired Spirit and had no regrets at all. I only run my cars on 97 Ron min fuel (Supergreen in the UK). My wife has a 1988 Bentley 8 with fuel injection and this is more economical on fuel compared to my 1982 Spirit which has carburretors and I think runs and performs better. The later cars with active ride are probably the most comfortable riding; problems can however be expensive if incurred. Provided you buy carefully, you will not regret your choice. Have fun. Mark | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2013 |
Justin, an early car with a carby as opposed to a later car with electronic fuel injection is in my opinion a better option. Electronic fuel injection defineately gives more power and economy but there are far more components containing microscopic circuits that can go at any time without any warning. When you have a Rolls you just can't walk away from it if it breaks down because the chance of vandalism is very high. These cars attract fools and nasty people who get very jealous and are highly prone to venting their own problems with life on anybody seen to be doing better than them. If you drive a Rolls, you are presumed wealthy regardless of the fact you may be holding down three jobs and have gone without your lunch to pay for the car to be serviced. Also, if you are a self help man the carby models are a lot easier to diagnois problems than the fuel injected models. But on all models with aluminum V8s don't buy it unless the seller can document changes in coolant at regular specified intervals unless you have another good engine up your sleeve to replace your engine with. You need to read up on this. A cast iron engine can be regularly abused by not having its inhibitor changed but that is certain death to an aluminum engine with steel liners. That aside, I think any presentable Rolls selling for under $40,000 is a good investment as long as you are going to love the car and maintain it. But I am prejudice. | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 286 Registered: 5-2008 |
all reasonable advice. The one question I have is 20K to 15K budget.......where in Australia are you hoping to find a good Spirit for 15-20K? You will have a great deal of trouble I suspect finding a good solid series 1 Spirit for 15K and forget a Spirit 2 for 20K or so....not possible unless of course its a tired and rotten UK or Hong Kong import that someone is desperate to off load in which case a prepurchase for sure! though this is advisable for any vehicle regardless of how good it looks. Justin I hope you find a good car but id be very surprised given the budget you have set for yourself. My advice to you is wait a year and save double that budget and buy a really good early Spirit for mid 30's...then you will enjoy the car, rather than the proposed alternative ie buying a 15K heap and regretting it everyday....... Good luck | ||
| A.R. Greenberg Experienced User Username: bergxu Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2012 |
Justin, Where in the world might you reside? Something tells me you're here in The Colonies, with a few of us, judging by your all-American love of heated seats  If you are indeed in the US, $15-20K is perfectly reasonable to expect to pay for what you are looking at. You ask a good question and have made good observations regarding the flip-flop between those who say early vs. late and vice-versa...and it can definitely become annoying. Basically, neither car will be *easy* to service, per-se, although the early cars will be *easier* in some ways. Personally, I like the Bosch CIS injection as it's the same exact system that Mercedes used on their cars from '76-'91 and is immensely reliable and simple and straightforward to diagnose in the (relatively unlikely) event of problems. Add to that, since the injection parts are shared with the more common brands, they can be purchased via several outlets, so you're not held hostage to Crewe dealers. In any case, don't be in a rush to buy the first one you see. There are many of them out there, so you can definitely afford to wait for the color combination and condition you want. Having owned 200+ cars in my lifetime, I can definitely say that it's worth the wait to get exactly what you want, so that when the first big bill comes along, you still find that you love the car rather than loathe it. Good luck and keep us posted on progress!! Aaron | ||
| Niclas Olovsson New User Username: nicce Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi! I have more or less the same issue as Justin, I have been looking for late Silver Shadow II's but stumbled upon a Silver Spirit II from 1990. Fuel injection and ABS units are apparently Bosch standard units with little troubles - but what I fear most is the active ride system! I have searched the forum a bit but does not seem to find any major horror stories... I was hoping to be able to do most of the service myself and basic electrics and hydraulics things I think I can deal with, but electronics is not really up my alley... | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2013 |
Hello to you all, Thank you so much for all your kind words and support and of course very useful advice. I have done quite a bit more research into these vehicles and I am absolutely convinced I wish to purchase one. I am in Australia for those of you who were wondering my whereabouts. As it currently stands, I have been looking at two models. The first is a 1985 Silver Spirit and the second a 1989 (the last of the Series I). The owner of the 1985 accepted AUD$20,000 as an offer and the 1989 owner has accepted an AUD$30,000 offer. Obviously as the facts stand, the 1989 is significantly more expensive. Both vehicles are in meticulous condition with full log books, extensive history and servicing at Rolls Royce specialists. I do prefer the 1989 aesthetics-wise. It is a gorgeous sort of…midnight ink blue over beige leather with cream coloured carpet and white lamb’s wool mats. I’ve always preferred light coloured carpet (shocking to keep clean but makes the ambience spacier). I tend to be very conservative with my tastes and always lean to elegant, so midnight blue over beige is the epitome of elegance to me. I understand it is the very last of the 20,000 series and I have been told a 1989 Series I is, essentially, the best car you can buy being the last of the “best series”. I understand significant reliability improvements with somewhat improved fuel economy. I understand the adage of Rolls Royce owners not being concerned with fuel to a point, however when 98RON (93 in the US equivalent) is at $1.60 per litre I don’t accept that there is no space for that consideration. The official Australian figures show a change from 25L/100km for a 1985 Spirit to 20L/100km for a 1989 (not sure of MPG equivalent) so there was obviously some improvement with the injection. So, in a nutshell, there are two immaculate vehicles both with 150,000km (100,000 miles) on the clock. Is it worth the extra $10,000 investment into the later 1989 model? I have read opinions here suggesting the earlier models with carburettors being more reliable, yet nearly everything I have read suggests the 20,000 series to be far superior. I will be using the vehicle as my every day vehicle, so some sort of moderate fuel improvement would be a consideration when purchasing – which would lean me to the 1989. But, $10,000 is a fair bit extra to be able to budget. People’s thoughts would be most appreciated. J | ||
| A.R. Greenberg Experienced User Username: bergxu Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2012 |
If you can comfortably stretch to the '89, I'd say go for it. The color & the injected spec would do it for me in a heartbeat. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 140 Registered: 5-2012 |
Justin As a Silver Shadow owner I cannot give an opinion on the relative merits of the two cars. However, I note that you have given a detailed description of the 89 Spirit and very little on the 85. That seems to be saying something to me  | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1256 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Justin, enjoy your dilemma; two very attractive cars to choose from and both apparently within your price range . Assuming everything else about both cars is acceptable to you, I would suggest making the decision based on the fuel and emission-control systems fitted to both cars. The introduction of emission controls in the '70/'80's put car manufacturers on a steep learning curve to improve fuel economy and driveability. Each new model/upgrade included improvements in these areas although occasional problems also showed up. On this basis, the 1989 vehicle would be the choice however you need to be aware of the reliability and maintenance requirements of the then-new fuel injection system fitted to this car compared to the traditional carburettors before making your final decision. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2013 |
Justin, there is only one choice to make and that is to get another job and/or fleece a relative and buy both of them because the chance of you being able to buy those cars in that condition in the future of say 10 years is just above nil. As these cars get older there is a chance the general public will wake up to the fact that the manufacturers of most makes have been providing plastic disposable transport for big bucks and laughing all the way to the bank at the consumers' expense. Quality in materials and practicality for repairs are two things most manufacturers today don't want to concern themselves with. The game now is to make it shiney, crap on about all its wizzbang technology, its greeness, get your loot out of your bank and into theirs and get the thing off the showroom floor fast then rip you hard on parts and servicing. Most are made by computers and robots, some of the designs are mechanical nightmares for mechanics, and really if you were doing the right thing by them you would only drive it 30,000 kilometers and come and buy the new one which is always touted as better etc. Thats why I think these old Rolls Royces are going to go into outer space price wise eventually. You could spend you money at this time on a lot worse things like buying land in this country which is presently at an idiotic level the result being that a lot of young people are getting mortgages with no hope of ever getting out of debt ever. Of course you are taking a gamble because you are buying something that is going to make a lot of other young people bitter, nasty and often violently vandalistic. I do hope that you have had somebody who really knows RR/B check these vehicles out from top to bottom and it is well worthwhile to take your time and look at the car very carefully outside, inside, underside and side side. Look at every panel for scratches, dents. Rust more that not comes from the inside and only appears on the outside after the metal has been holed. Eyeball every inch of leather. And remember, you can never know all the faults of a car until you have driven it for a couple of months but if they are checked out thoroughly you reduce the amount of disappointment coming your way. Your last post shows that you have already decided on the later model and that's fine but be ready for the unsuspected electronic glitch. The computerized fuel injected model has good quality components but in this country's climate you can't expect any electrical component to last forever and 2013 minus 1989 is 24 years. The 89 is more efficient and green and cheaper to run fuel expense wise and that's where it stops. Carbys have problems too but have nothing like the complexity of electronic fuel injection and in my opinion nothing like the unreliability. Scan tools rarely point directly at the problem. I have seen many a qualified mechanic go almost insane trying to diagnois a glitch with all the right equipment. Anyone who thinks it simple should try making a living at it! Adequate servicing is a must and if you are going to go an authorised RR dealer for servicing cash up big time and never let a general run of mill place service it unless the mechanic/proprietor has a love for these cars. Again good luck and keep us posted on your adventure. | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 293 Registered: 5-2008 |
all day all night and twice on sunday go the 89 car. No question! Ive had an 86 Spirit and while yes wonderful though it was I always thought it was 'underpowered' like the carby cars and it did not have ABS. The reason it felt underpowered was all the pollution gear chocking and smothering its fairly ho hum 220HP. It did have the early Bosch FI and I never had a days problem with the older style Jettronic FI system. The carby SZ cars are really now at a point that as an everyday car....as you said it would be for you, can be annoying as fine tuning will have to be done to the SU's regularly. As you are no mechainc this will become tiresome for someone who just wants to get in the car, turn the key and drive. Not to mention the 89 will have ABS which is a godsend on these massive levianthans! the motronic engine management system on the 89 car is bulletproof and provided no ham fisted idiot has mucked around with it, it will go forever with little need to touch it. I cannot recommend a 20K series car enough! I would certainly have it inspected as you know little about these cars and having someone who does could save you time, heartache and MONEY!!! Good Luck and hopefully wonderful RR enjoyment. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2013 |
I doubt that the 89 will go forever but the carby model defineately will. SU carbys are very misunderstood and have a grey cloud over them because people ignore the basics. Even though you are not a mechanic Justin, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to tune them and you have to be half a rocket scientist to diagnois a fault in the 89 model. All you need to tune the SUs is a carby synchroniser - figure a few hundred dollars. Apart from worn butterfly shafts there is not much to go wrong in a SU carby and the butterfly shafts can be easily bushed and replaced. Another problem with them is people either fill up the oil in the top too much or don't keep the oil at the right level. 89 requires a scan tool for diagnosis. Snap on used to sell scan tools for 10,000 dollars but the prices have come down. Scan tools are small computers that are about as user friendly as pre graphic user interface computers. Electronic units do have a shelf life, they are made of plastic and wear out or get cooked by engine heat. It will be very interesting to see where you are going to buy a computer for that model in 20 years time if it goes and they can go. They have intergrated circuits containing numerous microscopic transistors that are not able to be repaired. Actually, it would be interesting to find out exactly where the components inside the computers were made in the first place. Yes you can always get another computer off a wreck but that computer is going to be the same age as the one you replaced. Then you've got crank angle sensor, cam angle sensor, throttle position switch, air mass sensor, 8 injectors and pile of other sensors and wizz bang technology, wiring like a spagetti factory and numerous electrical contacts and plastic insulators which will be out lived by any SU carby. As for ABS great idea however you have a pile of relays to run it all which can go wrong and again a pile of sensors that bring up the lovely little red light on the dash inducing paranoia into the driver although the brakes still work. If you drive your RR like it should be driven you have really no need for ABS at all. RR has been criticised for being slow to adapt the wizzbang technology of Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes. I see that criticism as journalistic masturbation. Crewe was wise. It knew the people who purchased the product didn't want unreliability and that's why Clouds never had disc brakes until the bugs were all sorted out. Mercedes brakes squealed like a banshee after little use and their early electronic fuel injection was as lunatical as it was unreliable. I did the first part of my trade with a MB dealership, a big one. The 600 limo used mechanical fuel injection as did the 300 Sel 6.3 which was one hell of a tyre burner. MB also knew that their more expensive models should not be a guinnea pig experiment like the 3.5 electronic fuel injection was. Also, you have to consider where you are going to drive your RR. If you are going to drive it outside a major city forget the beautiful alloy wheels. A small pot hole will bend them at great expense. Steel rims are the only thing for country driving in Australia. I had a 7 Series BMW and every rim was bent after a few countryside runs. I also had and now still have a 420G Jaguar original with the etype engine which has 3 SU carbys that never went out of tune over many years. I also had a XJS V12 which nicely without any warning broke down savagely in a large Sydney shopping centre on a Friday afternoon, in the carpark. Oh just the nice little electical unit mounted on the rocker cover failed to function. You don't have to be a mechanic for keep a Cloud, Shadow, Spirit or Spur (carby version)on the road at an economic cost and you will wish you were a mechanic and a bloody good one when your 89 fails to proceed. Time will tell the story about just how reliable the RR electronic fuel injection is in twenty years time. By that time a Cloud will have doubled in money and there will be a roaring trade in China for electronic fuel injection components and they will come in a shiny packet but don't think they will be made in Germany and expect to buy a hand full until you get one that functions. Go for the 85! | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2013 |
Wow. Well this has become an interesting debate from you all! Very interesting to read the arguments in favour of the 1985 and also the 1989. Really I just want the one that is going to be the least headache. All of them are in immaculate condition so that’s neither here nor there, but it sounds from what’s being said that some of you think the earlier one will be easier to maintain not having the fuel injection yet others seem to think the 20,000 will be more reliable. The latter is what I have heard on a more regular basis. What does everyone here think about the II Series? Don’t see many about and way out of my budget for now. Just out of curiosity. Are they reliable? An electric nightmare some say. A good friend of mine who I have made off this site has one and I think he said his runs pretty well. I’ll be interested to continue reading the dialogue on here as to your thoughts. All of your comments are assisting and I appreciate what each of you is able to bring to the table. =) | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Justin I'm very much in Vladimir's carburettor camp. It's true that the injected 89 model will give better performance and fuel economy. However, the most I will spend on my carburetted Silver Shadow is the cost of two re-conditioning kits for the carbs. 60 dollars each. Compare that with a replacement ecu at $2000, injectors $100 each, lambda sensors $300 to $600, all the sensors Vladimir listed "crank angle sensor, cam angle sensor, throttle position switch, air mass sensor, 8 injectors and pile of other sensors and wizz bang technology." Then there's the medical bills for the panic attack when the engine check light comes on. All this for 3 mpg extra. Performance wise, all Rolls Royces' are more than "adequate." My 40 year old Shadow easily keeps up with modern day traffic. I often pull away from the lights using moderate acceleration to find the other cars in my rear view mirror. Bear in mind, an 85 Spirit will be much livelier than a 74 Shadow. I guess it's really down to yourself and what your requirements are. There are many who will totally disagree with what I have just written. The parts on the injected models may be expensive, but they are very reliable and unlikely to need replacing very often. If you are going to have your car serviced by a local specialist then I doubt it will be any more expensive to run that a Mercedes, Jaguar or BMW. If you are planning to service it yourself, then costs will be much, much lower. One thing we are losing sight of here, whatever your preference, is there is no other car like a Rolls Royce, They really are very special. When that Rolls is sitting in your garage you're going to be thinking; this is a seriously cool car. I think we can all agree on that. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 142 Registered: 5-2012 |
James - I have to take issue with your comment that the 86 Spirit is "underpowered." I have just taken a peek at your details and find your new car is a Turbo R. No wonder you find the 86 model to be underpowered. It doesn't have a whacking great turbo charger bolted onto it. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2803 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well, carburettors. If you must. Fine for an enthusiast, and whilst vastly inferior to an average injection system I must say that they are quite acceptable albeit suboptimal on my '54 and '72 Bentleys. Unfortunately the last carburettor SZ cars had become, well, rather slow and temperametal, and even the 1985 fuel injected SZs as sold here were barely better. The 20k SZ injected cars speak for themselves as the engine performance and the reliability of the fuel systems markedly improved across the range. Regardless, I would never own a variant of a vehicle without ABS unless it were impossible to have ABS in the series, so a pre-20,000 SZ was always out of the question for me once 1987 rolled in. On top of the ABS and FI, the 20k SZs have so many vast improvements over the earlier SZs that it is hard to quantify them. Before even mentioning the interiors and graceful features, have a look at the suspension, hydraulics, drivetrain, cooling and so on. Crewe did a fantastic job on the 20K SZ cars to transform them from 1960s cars to 1990s cars. RT. ps: given that most of the Bentley Turbos I have seen have the turbos disabled (disused for a long time, the controls become sticky - see the posts on this Forum about this) the power increase due to the 20K FI is no co-incidence. Carburettor SZs are, as JF noted, rather pedestrian. The early FI export cars fall a bit short with their early Bosch systems, whilst at least the later Bosch systems on the 20k naturally-aspirated SZs with the upgraded K-Jetronic started to perform at a reasonable level. The Turbos’ KE2 and KE3 Motronic systems are on par with eachother, and are different from those of the non-turbo systems in adjusting the mixtures to suit boost conditions. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 315 Registered: 6-2009 |
One thing that is critically important is knowing what you really want out of the car you're buying. The following is not a criticism, but an observation based upon my own likes/wants/needs versus those of others, which are equally legitimate. I will never, ever understand the need for ultra-high performance turbocharged cars when we're talking about the Crewe era RR/Bentley cars. It may be different depending on where in the world they were delivered, but here in the US it's impossible to drive an ultra-high performance car on the public roadways in a way that exploits its abilities legally. In addition, most of these cars are not driven much at all, and more's the pity. I knew that I always wanted a conventional luxury car and the performance (or lack thereof) that went with it. This works for me. My purchase of a 1978 Silver Shadow II was not only my first foray into cars from Crewe but also the first car I ever owned that was not fuel injected. Like Geoff and Vladimir I am eternally grateful that this is the case from the point of view that I have to do the vast majority of maintenance myself. It's a *lot* harder to diagnose issues with FI (or at least it is to me), particularly if the car in question is of the pre-OBD era, when compared to dealing with somewhat similar misbehavior issues in carburetted cars. So, in the final analysis: - know what your driving wants and needs are - know what your likely maintenance situation will be and what limits that may impose - buy accordingly Brian | ||
| James Feller Prolific User Username: james_feller Post Number: 298 Registered: 5-2008 |
Wow Vladimir...seems you are most certainly against the later cars but your argument does not seem valid to me given Justin's stated requirements for his purchase. I totally disagree with you WRT to carbys being 'easy to tune' and the older cars being much more reliable than the 'whizz bang' newer ones. There is nothing whizz bang about an 89 Rolls Royce from an electronic mechanical perspective. Its all very old simple designed mechanical fuel injection. Sure it has a computer brain running it built thankfully by Bosch. Its the same system on virtually all big large capacity engined German cars of the day so its reliablity in general is without question. I've owned and run many cars over my 20 years of driving as im sure you have, but inparticular, much newer Crewe cars than yours Vladimir. As a forum contributor my advice for Justin is sound given what he wants the car for. The later 20+ series cars in my expirence are far better in pure reliablity terms and practicality terms than the earlier SZ's. Remember it will be Justins ONLY car and needs to be a daily driver. It wont be a 'hobbie' 2nd, 3rd or 4th car in his garage, like they are for most making comments here, that he can tinker with on a sunny day if he feels like it...This car has to start every day and cope with everyday needs. Frankly I wouldn't buy either a 24 or 29 year old Crewe car for this task at all! Im lucky I could afford to have both my Crewe toys side by side in the garage and enjoy them on a whim as my daily driver was of course german!.... but Justin has his heart set on a Roller for the this task. Look Justin, I dont wish to create ongoing boring tit for tat debate as frankly its irrelevant, either car by and large will do the job if both are good solid cars and check out. You must be prepared that things will and do go wrong on all old cars, let alone old Crewe cars. A warning to you Justin, please don't think you are going to have either car serviced for $60 bucks and you will just keep the tank full of fuel...... take it from me as someone who has run these cars for almost a decade now....budget on 1-2K per year for servicing items as a starting point. I'm not including reg, fuel, insurance or major either.... 1-2K is about what I spend on normal wear and tear items for these cars each year. Thats not bad actually either, things will fall off, break and need attention. My cars are both low klms immaculate examples and still they do need stuff Justin..... they are not 'cheap' cars to run, thought some owners are very CHEAP with their cars. Sure, both cars you can do DIY stuff on but there are somethings you will have to seek quailfied mechanical help with. I stand however behind the later cars as being a much more sound investment as RT points out. So many significant changes and vast improvements were made to make the later cars much much better from 87' onwards that its impossible to list here but have a read in the tech library Justin. Oh and Geoff, of course the Turbo is much more powerful than the Rolls and makes it feel pedestrian...you better believe it! However the the point im making was I always felt dissappointed by the usable top end in the Rolls...thats why the Bentley won my heart if you get my drift. Franky, i doubt i'll ever buy another old generation Rolls Royce again...Ive always said once you have driven and owned Turbo Charged Crewe machines...you will never be satisfied or want their naturally aspirated counterparts again....my goodness they are the business!!! Take care and hopefully a wonderful new car you will have soon Justin. J | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2013 |
Don't get me wrong James, I think the 89 is a fine vehicle indeed and one day I might get one but I will never trust it not to break down. You can get a carby, strip and overhaul it and know that it is not going to cause you grief for quite some time. You can't do that with electronic items. They are unpredictable even if Bosch made them. You can test them but you can never predict when they are going to stop working. I live in a very small place, population 12, you would not even call it a town. Each way is a road just under 100 miles long, and half of it is dirt. You can't play russian roulette with car maintenance here. If you make it to either adjoining town even with a common make of vehicle the chances of the repair shop having the part you want is almost nil and the price you pay if they have the part is always crazy. I always carry a spare battery, alternator, distributor, ignition coil along with all belts and hoses. The RAC does a thriving trade here because there is the tow bill first which if you are not a member is going to be dick nasty. (Oh yeah and if its a holiday you won't be getting towed either )Then there is the wait for parts. What breaks down here? You got it - late model cars, stacks of them and the cause is overwelmingly electrical. Coil packs - they fail, crank angle sensors - they fail. Relays - they fail. My point is simply this, if you want to increase reliability you decrease the amount of electrical components the vehicle runs. If the Camargue had an electronic fuel injected engine (and the late models did) I would yank it out and convert it to carby. You can get a replacement panel for an 89 RR but try that for a Camargue and you will be on a very long and expensive journey indeed. But whats worse - breaking down in Sydney traffic or breaking down in the middle of nowhere. Well with a RR of any make I would rather break down here than in Sydney where you have a festering ongoing crime wave and tens of thousands of people really doing life hard. You may not notice that sitting down at the Rocks in a trendy overpriced cafe sipping down a coffee latte and glinting at your Rolls parked in a nice street whilst a battalion of Police patrol up and down to keep the drunken and drugged riff raff at bay, but when the mongrel fails to proceed along the highway amongst the insidious traffic the horror of the situation decends. You have two horrors really, if its day time you have the traffic and fact that you are responsible for the inconvience of hundreds of other motorists (I think you can actually feel the hatred coming from each car after the honking dies down) then you have the night time nightmare. Oh looky, a Roller with a lovely mascot lets rip it off, oh no, it's not there, hey boys nice grill lets remodel it with our Doc Martins! I am not sure which is the greater horror. But that aside, there is no doubt, the 89 is more efficient and powerful but reliable? Well I don't buy it but at least whatever Justin is buying he's not tossing his loot away on a late model common car that was destined to proceed directly to the scrap heap from the day it was placed in the showroom and in that we are both of the same side of the fence. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2012 |
Vladimir I do enjoy the humour in your posts. I'm afraid yanking out an electronic fuel injector system and replacing it with carbs is a step too far, even for a carby man like myself. The point I would make about going back to a carbureted system with ignition points is that I am surprised at how well such an antiquated system actually performs. I fully accept the modern systems are vastly superior. With hundred mile roads either side of your town, what a fantastic reason to buy a Turbo R. You could have real fun on those roads, without any risk to other road users. I'd like to repeat what Brian said in an earlier post "here in the US it's impossible to drive an ultra-high performance car on the public roadways in a way that exploits its abilities legally." I should add that here in the US the police rigidly enforce speed limits. My two "non daily drivers" before I bought the Rolls were a Jaguar XJ8 followed by an XKR. I found driving both cars to be very frustrating here. Even the XJ8 would easily cruise at well over 100 mph, but do that too often here in the US, they will stop you. I know in the UK everyone ignores the national 70 mph limit and drives at 95mph - maybe it's the same in Australia. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Grand Master Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 395 Registered: 5-2007 |
I think the most important thing to re-emphasise here is the need to have the cars thouroughly inspected. Justin if you haven't already done so take up David's advice above and contact him; he'll know who the best RR mechanics are nearest the cars. I had 2 other cars inspected before I bought the third and it was the smartest $1500 I ever spent. The three inspections meant I ended up with the mechanically most reliable car and I had a good idea of what needed to be done in the future. It is easy to be seduced by the beauty of these cars but, like any used car, the beauty (and the problems) are more than skin deep. The experienced mechanics know exactly what to look for. Good Luck Jeff | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2013 |
Yes in my warped and crazy opinion Jeffrey is spot on. $1500 seems to be a lunatical amount to spend on getting cars inspected but if you take the risk of not spending that type of loot before you buy, unless you know these cars, you may find yourself crying in your sleep. Unfortuneately, a lot of RR drivers just drive them until they stop, then get them cheaply repaired and drop them onto the market looking for young players, suckers, the trusting, well basically they just want their loot back. So I agree with Jeffrey that this is the most important thing by far. THESE CARS ARE VERY SEDUCTIVE and whether they are worse than the opposite sex or not I don't know but they defineately get 2nd place if not equal footing. Actually, Geoff, it is possible to hit 120mph from my gate to the edge of the bitumen before the dirt road starts and it is possibly possible to hit 200 mph on many roads in Australia however if you are caught jail time is assured. Here, the authorities have learnt well from the USA so under the guise of safety the government really ramps up the revenue collecting from the motorist big time. In our Northern Territory we used to have a more liberal government and just like Nevada in the past we had an unlimited speed limit. I took advantage of that and used to cruise in my 74 Fleetwood at 120mph no problems. However, then we had the Cannonball Run and some twit of a Japanese Gentlemen, a dentist, arrived with a Ferrari F40 and during the race managed to kill himself and a pile of other people. Eventally, our politicians who will do anything for a vote decided that we all must be treated like children and that speed kills and now we have police virtually popping out of our cupboards with a ticket book. We have speed cameras, we have over the hill radar, we have mobile phones so that if you are speeding plently of concerned paranoid people (and we have at least 10 million of them I'm sure) can call the emergency number and dob you in. In fact you can call our police for "suspicious behaviour" depending on just what any fool thinks in suspicious. The police are now into our computers and into our phones and what the media being our great protector of moral values is not saying is that our police are now investigating false information as 70 percent of their workload. Well that can't be true because a policeman told me that. Indeed. I don't know about the UK but I can tell you in Russia you can still speed. Yes the police will indicate that they would like to have a chat and they will empty their short barrelled Klashnikovs right through your back window if you try to outrun them, but they are jolly fellows and a $5 tip was okay when I was there in 2000. A lot was okay about Russia. I was passed on the highway between Moscow and Samara by a black Mercedes going at least 160 mph and about 20 kilometers down the road here was the driver having a laugh with the local traffic cops. Here he would be handcuffed, bent over his car and possibly maced so rest assured Australia is following the US example in many ways. We can't have guns to protect ourselves let alone our property like the US, but we have a lovely system where we can call up the police when we are getting raped, mugged, murdered in our own homes and the police will come to our aid - yes - eventually. And all will be well. Of course, I will one day buy a Bentley, a very fast one, hopefully before they ban anything in this country faster than a skateboard or more dangerous than a plastic fork and legislate all fun things out of life unless it is green and or politically correct. I think it is morally unsound not to have a Bentley if you have a RR and vice versa. But she who must be obeyed has plans for a gigantic mansion and sadly my Bentley aspirations will have to be put on hold as at present I am not suicidal. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Vladimir It's the same in Europe as well, green and politically correct. Strange that in the UK they are not enforcing motorway speed limits though, quite an anomoly. Last time I visited the routine was just the same, get off the plane, get the hire car, remember to drive on the left, onto the motorway, 95mph all the way, usually in a stream of traffic doing the same speed. There are loads of speed cameras' but they just don't seem to turn them on. I have never had a ticket. Interestingly, in the most recent series of Top Gear, a UK motoring television programme, the hosts were joking about the "95 MPH" speed limit, so it still applies, for the time being that is. Also I read an article in a spoof UK newspaper called the Daily Mash entitled "Britain has a motorway speed limit, claims minister" this joke article went on to say " TRANSPORT Secretary Justine Greening believes there is currently some sort of legal limit to how fast Britons can go on the motorway, it has emerged. Greening made the claim, which has shocked UK drivers, during a debate about whether this apparent top speed should be raised from its alleged current level of 70mph to some other purely hypothetical level" and so on. I found it quite amusing as there is an element of truth in it. Not for much longer I fear. | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2013 |
Dear all, Thank you for all your help. It is very much appreciated. I absolutely agree with you Vladimir and admire your cynicism and dry outlook. I am 23 and have the cynicism and crabbiness of a 70 year old man. God knows what an arsehole I will be at 70! We have sold our souls to political correctness now; it's quite depressing. I am sick of the nanny state, environmentalists and do gooders controlling the state of affairs in Australia. They represent a small proportion of the population yet have been so successful in indoctrinating and manipulating people with their warped notions of the world. They now seem to control the debate in this country and that is not alright with me. So, owning an RR will be a big fat middle finger to the lot of them. I have carefully cross examined the arguments in favour of the earlier model and the ones for the later. It seems from what has been said, that cost-wise the 1985 with the carburetors would be a safer bet. I do prefer the colour combination of the 1989 with a slightly more modern looking interior BUT what I want, as far as this is possible with an RR, is minimal inconvenience with less things to break. Any fool knows that mechanicals are much more reliable than electrics, so based on that the 1985 would be a winner hands down. I'd rather budget an extra set amount for the fuel the earlier one would use over the later, than have to fork out a massive wad for injection repairs. The earlier one is also $10,000 cheaper which will be a significant savings to my hip pocket. I am still deliberating between the two, but all your advice has been most helpful. I think I do agree with whoever it was who said regardless of which car you choose, it will be awesome sitting and looking at it in the garage. =) J | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2809 Registered: 4-2003 |
Justin, You are forgetting an imperative. ABS. To me, that ruled out any SZ vehicle before 1987/20k. Add to that the improved reliability of the (mechanical) fuel injection of all 20k+ cars and there is little to consider, apart from going for a later airbag vehicle. Sure, many Australian-delivered pre-20k cars have fuel injection, albeit impoverished, or worse, carburettors, but there are so many other mechanical improvements in the 20k cars which tip the balance even more heavily. RT. | ||
| Carl Heydon Experienced User Username: car Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2004 |
Hi Richard I'm a bit surprised you would exclude so many wonderful cars before 20k just because they lack ABS. I personally don't feel a need for ABS and have experienced where it has encouraged people into very poor driving habits. Then add to the equation that some ABS units are failing and there are NO replacements available and no parts to rebuild. Having recently needed to find one for SCAZNOOA9JCH23812, I was offered a used one for $2500 that “looked OK”. Someone will need to step forward and rebuild these or it will eventually put all the SZ 20ks off the road. | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2013 |
Hi Carl Tell me a bit more about this ABS System and the benefits of having it over an earlier model that doesn't have it. As I say - I am in two minds. Do I spend the extra $10,000 on the later model or don't I? Anyway we will see what happens. J | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2810 Registered: 4-2003 |
Carl, Justin, ABS is the single most notable safety feature introduced after seat belts, and is really an essential since the late 1980s. Alright, some may argue that seat belts are silly, but I cannot be convinced of any argument against seat belts. Next are airbags. I suggest that no one would buy a new car these days without ABS, seat belts and at least five airbags, therefore no new vehicles are on offer in Australia these days without all those. My father had inertia reel seat belts fitted to my 1954 R-Type in the early 1970s for obvious reasons. Sadly, an ABS retrofit is seriously difficult to implement on a SY or early SZ and I have not heard of any retrofits. Quite honestly, the spares availability issue does not wash. Spares are available, ECUS and sensors off the shelf at reasonable prices in the extremely unlikely event that they are required, and for 20k SZs they are becoming easier to source and more favourably priced source from now on. Put an otherwise-identical ABS SZ against a non-ABS SZ and $10,000 justifies the difference alone. RT. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2012 |
I was not intending to comment as so much of this is down to our own personal subjective opinions, however, in the interests of adding to the gaiety of this forum here goes; no offence intended to anyone. I suggest Justin reads the report from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration which found no overall difference in ABS v non-ABS accidents. http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Light+Vehicle+Antilock+Brake+Systems+(ABS)+Research+Program The report states " A number of statistical analyses of accident databases have been performed during the last three years. These analyses suggest that the introduction of ABS does not seem to have reduced the number of automobile accidents where they were expected to be effective" The detailed breakdown shows accidents involving some categories of vehicles have improved whereas others are far worse. The report does seem to be biased in favour of ABS insofar as it will publish actual percentage figures for categories of accident that show a significant improvement but then mentions these figures are cancelled out by other categories, without giving the precise figures. Further on down the report it states "Accident studies show increased involvement of ABS-equipped vehicles in single-vehicle accidents", again, no figures given but they must be well over 20% in order to cancel out the 24% improvement for other categories. Anyway, there's plenty in this report to fuel our own personal prejudices whether for or "against" ABS. I personally am with Carl in this debate. There is no substitute for knowing and driving within your car's limitations. Unlike seat belts, where the evidence for their contribution to road safety is absolutely overwhelming and incontrovertible, ABS sits at the margins. In fact, statistically speaking you are safer in a non-ABS car. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 150 Registered: 5-2012 |
This forum seems to object to the inclusion of ( ) in the URL. If you are interested in looking at the NHTSA report, you will need to copy and paste it. | ||
| Carl Heydon Experienced User Username: car Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2004 |
Please Richard, if you know of new modulators existing, tell me where. I would love to be wrong. It would even encourage me to own a SZ. Exactly 1 year ago I tried everywhere I could think of to buy a new ABS modulator. I was quoted $4500 from Bentley Parts but nil stock. None of the other admirable suppliers were able to help with new. The owner managed to find one from a damaged car so I fitted that. I spoke to several RR & B specialists who had seen a few leaking. Anecdotally, the Jaguar Mob are importing used units from UK for the same reason. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 323 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, Not trying to steal your thunder, just seeing if one or two tricks might work for URLs with parenthesis: 1. Masking with Clickable Text and using escaping for parenthesis NHTSA Antilock Brake Systems Research 2. Only escaping the parenthesis [open paren is %28 and close paren is %29]: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Light+Vehicle+Antilock+Brake+Systems+%28ABS%29+Research+Program Brian | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2012 |
Brian Now I know why I occassionally see a %nn in a URL Geoff. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2812 Registered: 4-2003 |
NHTSA ? Well, it is located in a part of the world where seat belts were scorned for decades after they were compulsory here in Australia. A land where some States are today, under new legislation, handing out handguns to school teachers. I rather suspect that helmets for cyclists, and even motorcyclists, are not compulsory. You can talk yourself into anything if you try. Sure, ABS may increase collisions sometimes: being rear-ended in slowing traffic by some clown who has a car without ABS would be annoying. If you look at the studies by ADAC and TÜV in Germany, the case for ABS is overwhelming. RT. ps: rogue characters including spaces in URLs are not shown as spaces, but are represented by filling the gaps with characters like %nn | ||
| Neville Davies Experienced User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2006 |
In 1960's I attended a course at a new skid-school opened in the UK. by a Dutch racing driver called Rob Slotemaker.The tuition car was equipped with controllable brake solenoids on each wheel in order to create various conditions on the skid-pan all fairly new in those days.Among the "tricks" taught was steering around a hazard whilst braking this was only possible by short stabs on the brake pedal and steering at the same time one without the other causing the vehicle to skid into the hazard.I guess this was the for runner of A.B.S. and it certainly worked. Nev | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1503 Registered: 4-2003 |
For what it is worth, since ABS arrived when 'newbies' arrive with their car, I always cart them down our street to a dirt pan and get them to stand on the brake pedal at a reasonable speed to experience the effect of the modulator having its design fit and applying and releasing brakes. This, as users know comes through as a hammering under your braking foot and there have been apparently numerous drivers who in fright at the sensation have actually taken their foot off the brake pedal and met the body of conflict - unbraked. I still do this with ABS cars if I have them on a dirt road or during a rain storm. This gives me some indication that the system is working. One other foible of the system is the sensors at the wheels which are magnetic getting crudded up with iron filings and then stop 'sensing! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2813 Registered: 4-2003 |
By the way, Bill, I loved those beautifully parallel skid marks and tyre smoke on Hindmarsh Drive when I was following your Silver Spur (no ABS) by coincidence not so long ago. Yep, the red traffic light went unnoticed. For those horrified, it was no fault of Bill's as red is the silliest colour chosen by mankind as a warning. Like me, and over 5% of males and 0,25% of females, Bill is colourblind, and red lights look black in broad daylight. ABS works the brakes harder but avoids the skid. Nice is to have steering response in an emergency stop. Sure, the first experience with the ABS pulsating pedal effect is a novelty, but surely no driver these days has not driven a vehicle without as it has been the norm since around 1990 and available since 1982. RT. | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2013 |
Dear all, Quite fascinating how posts can go off on such tangents! Very interesting to read all the feedback on ABS. It certainly sounds like it is a significant safety feature on the later ones. Question regarding sound systems in these cars. Are they likely to be of high quality? Both the cars I am looking in have the original systems. Whilst the owners of both tell me they are excellent, I am 23 and judge sound through Gen Y ears - that being incredibly high quality. Very few of us don't have speakers that aren't surround sound with subwoofers and HiFi etc. I've been given a quote for $1500 for a new head unit and speakers and a subwoofer that goes under the seat. I said I don't want some ugly sparkly thing as it is an elegant car and it can hide under the seat. Just for the extra concert hall deep echoey bass as I listen to a lot of classical. For those of you who own these cars, would the original speakers be good enough to provide this deep eery concert hall echo or would I need to be looking at investing in a new in car sound system to achieve this sort of experience? J | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2814 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well, Justin, We all like good sound systems too. Loud and clear ones. Mind you, the cars I see with most under-20s driving around seem to have such overpowered sound systems that deafness due to levels of over 100dB will make them deaf within weeks by OH&S standards. At a leisurely 80dB (still above the OH&S warning level for continuous), achieved in my cars easily, you can hit the air horns on a Turbo R and not hear them, and an emergency vehicle’s siren is inaudible even with the windows down. My Conti R has its original 10-speaker top-range Alpine system which was not exactly cheap stuff. It includes a remote control front and back, has a proper CD changer of the era, but sadly no DVD or USB ports. Annoyingly, being Australian-delivered, it lacks RDS and TDR. It has twin power amplifiers in the luggage compartment. Its speakers are quite up to the mark, but there is always room for improvement. I am possibly going to replace its speakers with new upgrades, and that will be at a price of over $4,000 if I am to see any improvement. I would need to spend about the same on the head and amplifiers to see any improvement overall, so maybe a DIM port for the USB will suffice. It sounds better, but only marginally better, than the modest 6-speaker 220 watt Pioneer in my Turbo R, but even the 4-speaker Clarion in my T-Series has really good sound even with its tacked-on CD changer. Subwoofers ? Well, whenever I have them I turn them to a very low level as they seem, to me at least, to spoil the fidelity. My R-Type has its original single-speaker valve radio in perfect working condition, and its fully-concealed Pioneer two-speaker system does a great job. Only on that 1954 car can I really say that the original speaker is quaint but not for modern usage. Crewe cars never have rubbish sound systems. RT. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 324 Registered: 6-2009 |
Richard Treacy wrote: NHTSA ? Well, it is located in a part of the world where seat belts were scorned for decades after they were compulsory here in Australia. A land where some States are today, under new legislation, handing out handguns to school teachers. I rather suspect that helmets for cyclists, and even motorcyclists, are not compulsory. You can talk yourself into anything if you try. Say what you will, Richard, but it wasn't the US government that was scornful of safety improvements, but the auto industry and the "If you make me do any little thing I don't want to do you're infringing upon my freedom!! group. Seatbelts would still not be compulsory safety equipment, nor would ABS and stability control, were it not for government mandates. Motorcycle helmet laws are handled by each state and in the majority they are compulsory (though many of the above mentioned constantly fight them). I know of no states where bicycle helmets are compulsory, but they are strongly recommended everywhere. Also, NHTSA's research is used the world over, so they must do something right. Brian, who constantly hangs his head in perplexed shame at the anti-science, anti-education, anti-government rubes in my country who don't know the difference between liberty and license | ||
| Leho Proos Experienced User Username: lehoproos Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2006 |
Brian Do not be overly concerned regarding Richard's comments on the US character. Those comments are fatuous in that the cited criteria are in no way correlated to the capability of ABS to affect accident occurrences. The logic employed is akin to asking 'If they can put a man on the moon, why can't they cure the common cold?' I think that it would be better if we kept the logic pertinent to the topic. Leho | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 159 Registered: 6-2005 |
When I was living in Boston in the 1980's the Massachusetts State brought in a law making car seat belts compulsory. However in a state referendum in November 1986 the law was repealed with a peoples vote of 53 to 47 percent. Enough said. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Grand Master Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 398 Registered: 5-2007 |
Mind you - in the 1970s downunder Crewe was forced to strip the chrome off the gear-shift lever on the steering column - and the little chrome bezel above the PRNDL decal - in case sunlight bouncing off the shine distracted the driver! I've quietly restored mine from donor parts (shh "but it's always been there officer") Nowadays people have cinema screens and a telephone exchange in the dash to prevent the sunlight glinting in their eyes... Anything that helps with saving someone's life and limb is a good thing for me but sometimes it's a case of, to stretch an acronym from the IT world, a PICNIC; problem in chair not in computer. And there's not much anyone can do about that except assume that half the drivers sharing the road aren't always on the same page of the learner's manual as the rest of us. | ||
| Brian Crump Prolific User Username: brian_crump Post Number: 127 Registered: 2-2007 |
Justin, As the owner of a Spirit II, I have to say it is one of the most reliable cars I own. Everything works and keeps working. It is different from an earlier Spirit but each is a fine car so whichever you choose will probably work out well. One of the things I value in Sydney traffic is the ABS which does work and is very useful when being attacked by people with poor driving skills. The ABS comes into its own on wet and greasy roads and although I have cars without it, I appreciate the added security it gives. Generation Y ears are designed the same way as my ears and even built from the same material but you may find it useful to replace the speakers which tend to deteriorate over time. I renewed mine about 6 years ago and the cones were starting to tear so new ones were a significant improvement. A Bach cantata sounds again like it should. You may well find a woofer adds nothing to the base which should be clear and concise. I wish you all the best whichever Spirit you buy but please be aware that unless you do your own mechanical work there will be times when your wallet will grow a little lighter.... My advice would be to search slowly for the car you are passionate about - perhaps join the RROCA and go on a Drive and Be Driven day so you can experience the whole variety of Rolls-Royce and Bentley models. You may even end up falling in love with a MkVI - quite usable as an every day car. Regards, Brian Crump | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2815 Registered: 4-2003 |
To their credit, the NHTSA did, on the subject which must by nature be reported conservatively, summarised in 1998-2000:
Whilst less emphatic than the equivalent reports by the German ADAC, the above excerpt to me reads as a cautious endorsement of ABS, particularly in the last sentence. I would suggest that those benefits are in the situations where the greatest injury and damage can me minimised. RT. | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2013 |
Okay guys, think I've got it re. the ABS. What are the panel's views on models that are not Australian delivered? Seems to be three 'bunches' I have observed; Australian, England or Hong Kong/Singapore. I have heard about the issues with English imports rusting due to salt thrown on the roads to dissolve the snow and Asian models being low mileage but hard wearing engines due to large times idleing in traffic. Were an exemplary import to materialise, is it an instant no go or not? Also, service history - many do not have it. Would you consider this an issue? | ||
| Brian Crump Prolific User Username: brian_crump Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2007 |
Justin - a large can of worms that has just fallen off the shelf! And, they have spilled across the Internet..... You are going to get a variety of responses but there is no real answer to your question because it is a matter of judging the merit of each example. Yes, some cars from the UK can be rusty but many are not; some cars from HK may have low mileage but possibly many hours of work and some have been kept in tip-top condition and housed in atmosphere controlled garages; some cars from Japan and Singapore have also been kept in the manner to which they should and some have been abused. Imagine doing a 10,000 k service every 2 or 3 years and you get the picture of the potential for a sludge build up in the engine.... Service history? How brave are you? Do you like to take risks? On the other hand a full service record is no guarantee - it is just one of a range of factors to be considered. You will very rarely buy a second hand car that has no issues. Like all mechanical devices there must be wear and tear and there must be the possibility of a component failing. You need to have confidence in your own judgement and in a pre-sale inspection. Then you need to be ready to rectify issues as they arise and surely they will. Last weekend I sold one of my Concours winning cars. It was 34 years old and had been serviced every 3000 ks since new. That is, 100 services plus a few more -and yet, on the day of delivery the air-conditioning failed! Yes, it had been serviced the week before but nothing showed as wrong. Be prepared and take the plunge. Every car has a price. You will either pay it up front or you will pay it in catch up as you go. Personally, the most significant of any criteria is passion - it must be a car I want and the rest can be brought up to speed. Good luck with the can of worms. They won't go back into the tin! Regards, Brian Crump | ||
| Justin Brooker New User Username: jsb1990 Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2013 |
Thank you Brian. Yes I think that's pretty obvious. There are two Australian delivered fully booked/history examples I am deliberating between. I just have to try and get some finances in order and then I'll bite the bullet. I think that sums up most of my questions really so I'd like to thank the panel for all your assistance of late. My current car is on the market for sale and pending its successful sale, will be making appropriate plans from there. I hope that sometime soon I will be able to post some new photos on this forum. =)) J | ||
| Lawrence Heasman Frequent User Username: lheasman Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2008 |
Hi Justin, Re your concerns on the 20 - 25 litres per 100km at the current cost of petrol have you thought of having an LPG conversion to run it duel fuel? Chapmans in Melbourne did my 89 Spur and it has been great, no lack of power and the 50 litre doghnut tank in the boot is good for 200kms. I think there is still a government rebate available too. | ||
| fireflyer Unregistered guest Posted From: 92.162.67.64 |
Hi Justin, when I researched a Spirit purchase, I looked at items like exhaust systems, fuel injection vs carbs. turbo or non turbo. and others to be sure, and I came out in favour of the early Spirit without the complications. This has come down to an 81 Spirit with a fairly scattered maintenance history but confirmed by annual Mot checks. I dont have worries about the carbs, I find them easy to tune, I read the colour of the plugs and check the exhausts for unburnt residues. A normal exhaust system is far easier to maintain and or replace than a catalyser with the complications of the emission controls Go for a Spirit 1 ! (Message approved by david_gore) |
