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KC Saayman
Experienced User
Username: kc_saayman

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, 08 November, 2004 - 20:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all

I was watching a friend park his 74 Shadow, and noticed that the rear wheel moved backwards and forwards when he shifted from Drive to Reverse, almost like the rear axle is loose. What should I advise him to do?

Regards

KC
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 420
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 08 November, 2004 - 22:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Don't drive it, and have the suspension mounts checked pronto. There is some movement allowed, and it is damped by the so called Brillo bushes. Also check for cracks in the suspension crossmember. Check that the final drive crossmember has been modified and that there is a boot floor plate while you're at it.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 47
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 05:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not teaching any one to suck eggs.
Just to refresh on the premature wear of the items stated, the main causes are the gearbox pressures set to high.
Then the idle speed to high through mainly sticking linkage etc.
Of course there can be more serious probs like the drive shaft trunions worn.
When replaced do check the above items for piece of mind.
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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.64
Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 08:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Perhaps it is also worth looking at the forward cross member (from which the trailing arms pivot) as I know of two instances where longtitudinal splits developed, following sustained or long distance TOWING. One case involved a horse trailer/box, the other, one of those cumbersome, gaudy, "gypsy" like, caravans, which impose undue stress upon Shadow drive lines (not to mention other normal road users) as they sway and bounce along the highways and byways en route to Butlins or wherever.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 422
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 20:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

John: quite correct. That's the rear suspension crossmember you refer to, as opposed to the final drive crossmember.

RT.
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 103
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 21:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi John,
I am always suprised that anyone would ever contemplate towing anything substantial with a Shadow,since there is nothing suitably strong enough to connect a tow bar to.
In my opinion the design of the rear end of the car does not suit any type of towing attachment.
If you must take you accomodation with you, buy a proper mobile home.
A caravan on my Rolls-Royce ... I should jolly well say not.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 423
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 09 November, 2004 - 22:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Towing or towed: an interesting issue.

Crewe had several lively discussions with the German authorities on this. German standards call for a front and rear towing point so cars can be safely removed from the Autobahn or icy mountain roads in an emergency. Crewe firmly declined. Something about "Sir, our cars never need towing.". In the end, Crewe agreed that the cars may be towed from the centre mount of the lower front suspension wishbones, but from nowhere else. A statement was issued to satisfy the authorities.

When I flatbedded my Turbo R to the garage to replace the torque converter some months ago (I didn't want to drive it with a broken sprag, although it would probably have been safe to do so), the driver looked up his generic towing handbook for all makes of car, and there it was: how to disconnect the driveshaft for long routes or damaged transmissions, how to select neutral and remove the selector fuse and all. He found the towing point specified for Silver Shadows and later cars. He needed that to winch the car onto the truck.

Crewe did succumb a little: they redesigned the spare wheel securing system for the German market as an olive branch. The Germans insisted that the spare could come out if the owner didn't secure it properly, causing havoc at speed.

As for towing: perhaps with extensive strengthening it would be OK. Not for me: I rather sponge accommodation from friends or stay at cheap and cheerfuls. Those essential modifications, and the cost of a caravan, would finance quite a few overnights thank you. And I far prefer the balance, performance and rear vision of the cars au naturelle.

RT.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 48
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 10 November, 2004 - 06:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Horse box towing only a fool would do that with the forward and aft movment of horses with a SS.

However towing a Bessacarr or Van Royce caravan being well balanced outfits are of no strain on the rear suspension or the steel monocoque structure with the tow bar fitted correctly,also the RR GM hydramatic 400 auto box is bullet proof if again maintaned corectly.

As for not being a suitable towing vehicle,the shadow is with every thing correctly maintained and with the self leveling running on 363 fluid[of course] most suitable for towing caravans, boats, gliders and broken down cars vans on a "A"frame etc.

It is far more reliable than the Range Rovers that are broken down on the hard shoulders with the confirmed air displacers popped with travellers horse boxs and ordinary caravans on tow,however there are many Range Rovers stationary in most strange positions[with most unusual looks on the owners faces] with no towed vehicles on behind at all.
The Classic is favourite i am informed.



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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 104
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 10 November, 2004 - 21:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I can well understand Crewes insistence that the cars should not be towed from the rear,since there is nothing suitable to connect a rope or chain to.

Fitting a tow bar to these cars has been known to stretch the body from the rear wheel arches(opening up rear door gaps) and on some(rusty UK Imports)actually pop out the rear screen.

Also I believe fitting a frame/structure strong enough to tow a substantial weight could compromise the designed deformation rate in the event of an accident in a similar manor to bull bars fitted to the front of some 4WD vehicles.

During my last visit to the UK I saw a Shadow towing a caravan,the driver appeared to be an undesirable type,it seemed he did not care for the campsite in the village provided for budget accommodation, but preferred to stay with some other travellers on what appeared to be a disused building site on the outskirts of the village, unfashionably close to the motorway.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 49
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 11 November, 2004 - 05:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert yet another alarmist posting.

Reference a Silver Shadow cannot towed from the rear,with a tow bar fitted and recomended by Crewe
it certanly can and even if it is a convertable.

If in the unlikly event disaster was to occur through the missed detection of the mountings,now that is unlikly as it has been brought to the attention of all.

Thank you to all concerned.

For your info,the rear of car can be suspended by the tow hitch.

There is no problem with the monocoque structure as Pressed Steel Bodys over engineered it,as was the Jaguar M1.
However you are correct in stateing the week point being above the wheel arch in a rear end shunt but no different to any other monocoque construted car.

Of course there are rusty cars about and it appears that you have all of them for what ever reason!
There are i am told mamy excellent UK cars running in other parts of OZ and of course they are unknown to you for whatever reason.

Robert when in the Uk do not plan your trips to the seedy undesirable places for there are many up market quality places to stay unless you have an atraction to the above.

And now to the one of the causes of the original posting as i stated geabox pressures to high causing harsh gearchanges,as this is a topic of interest,regarding possible high pressure mods to the gearbox that have been carried out and recomended by some folk maybe you would like to excersise your thoughts and keep to the topic.
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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.209
Posted on Wednesday, 10 November, 2004 - 17:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Fore and aft movement" (of the horses) IN the horse box?. Who said anything about horses being present THEREIN?. If one reviews my post, it will be noted that I refer to the towing (by S/Shadow) of no more than horseboxes, so once again it would appear that some people make assumptions in their frantic rush to "judgement". As my old headmaster was wont to say.. "when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME" . Britains best export (Range Rovers) failing to proceed?. No more or less than any other car, provided they are maintained and serviced by people who know what they are doing. In any event, you can bet (beyond a Shadow of doubt) that none are "parked" kerbside, due to fractured pitman arms, detached final drive sub-assemblies or even "cooked" engines (A$20K cylinder block??) courtesy the curious omission of a (basic) coolant temperature gauge.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 50
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 12 November, 2004 - 04:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

J.G.Dare.
Of stated horrible letter fame.

Ref your Professinal venimous posting of 11/9
quote "one case involved a horse trailer/box"
You are now saying that horse trailer/box are now being used empty or for some other purpose than what the trailer box was constructed for.

I am sure your remarks will be of great interest to the authoritys.

As i have said before your professinal words are clever but most of the time contain nothing more than pifal.

One thing is for sure while you are occupied answering to these postings others are left alone to deal with the many interesting topics of which are not hyjacked but your most of the time RUBBISH.
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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.177
Posted on Friday, 12 November, 2004 - 07:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh Patrick, DO let me allay your concerns lest you "report" matters to our "authorities"! The Shadow owner referred to, was a MANUFACTURER of horse boxes and when delivering them (new) to certain country estates/areas, elected to arrive in Crewes finest with the box following majestically at the rear. Although this impressed many buyers, the Shadow rear cross member eventually failed in protest due, no doubt, to unacceptable stress levels. That aside, methinks that perhaps you need another holiday, preferably sooner than later. Forget U.Ks gloomy skies/winter blues etc., and consider a visit to AUSTRALIA!. Hire the "von Royce" out to Onslow and whilst he is at Southend, YOU can be enjoying some invigorating fresh air and an abundance of healthy sunshine at this time of the year. Come and see a fine array of motor cars (of the type/condition which Englishmen regularly come here to buy for re-export!) and visit a highly respected "R-R" specialist workshop where you will see a "Dyno" (Dynonometer) and even learn how it works. Inspect locally made, Shadow front (vented) brake discs/rotors which are better (and cheaper) than the originals. Take a pair back home; a special price just for you!. View many fine parts suitable for your car, being parts which have been exported beyond the seas and observe a test jig to check dimensions and alignment of the Shadow diff. cross member suppport. Bring your member with you for a free measure and report!.It might also be an opportune time for you to share (and demonstrate) your "higher" levels of shop floor/bench experience and expertise. I feel confident that such a gesture would be of considerable interest to those among us who aspire to enrich our current resevoirs of "R-R" related technical knowledge and competence. Dont worry about the expense of the trip, for its only money and in any event, if you WIN the yet to be held, "Time/Mess" oil filter change competition (cartridge versus "spin on" type) you could have a few pennies left over. I might even supply a "Filter-Mag" gratis, for good measure!. When may we expect you to favour us with your presence?

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 13 November, 2004 - 05:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

J.G.Dare.
Of confirmed Horrible letter fame.

Well done in stateing that the horse box was indeed empty confirming my above causes of the failing rear crossmember and the resilient metal mounts[brillo type]and most likly not stated in the manuals!
Gearbox pressure to high,idle speed to high etc.

May i also thank you for confirming and agreeing with me that there are many fine examples in Australia apart from a RR specialist in Melbourne who appears to have dealings with all the rubbish from the Uk for whatever reason as you say there are many FINE EXAMPLES IN OZ.

As for the fine examples imported to the UK from oz,it is nice to know that they are back and cherished on the Uk's highways and byways and of course traveling to places of outstanding historical beauty with others of excellence.

May i thank you for your invite but alas i am of to the States, car booked,fly out to collect RR and the beautiful Airstream caravan,no prob with pitman arm or diff noise or failing rear suspension as all stated above points have been addressed in the maintence,Maybe another day.


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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.195
Posted on Saturday, 13 November, 2004 - 08:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick, How disappointing (but hardly suprising) to learn that you are "unable" to accept the hospitable offer which has been extended to you. We could have even collected you upon arrival (with your cross member) in an appropriate car; all things being considered. I do understand why you are not confident about winning the oil filter (change) competition, to cover visitation expenses etc. Ergo, if you can spare a few pounds to pay Heathrow to Melbourne, I do believe that after sharing your vast "R-R" knowledge with us, incl.of course, some practical workshop/bench repair procedures to demonstrate your towering technical prowess, many appreciative observers would be more than willing to contribute toward the cost of your returning you. I know that I would.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 13 November, 2004 - 08:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

J.G.Dare.
Of confirmed horrible letter fame.

Interesting i think not.

No technical practical content here from you.

Back to your Range Rover forum me thinks,silly me they have rumbled you.

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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.234
Posted on Saturday, 13 November, 2004 - 10:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you Patrick. Speaking of other forums, I have often noted your readily recognizable contributions to the "Swammelstein" (European) site,together of course with your learned offerings to this forum. Being an Englishman or Irishman, do you patriotically contribute with like enthusiasm (composition notwithstanding) to sites in your own country/region, eg the R.R.E.C?. IF so, could you recommend that site to others who seek to expand their knowledge base, or if you DONT regularly post to say, the R.R.E.C,(and/or the RROC/USA)forums, do you have valid reasons for not doing so?

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Prolific User
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 59
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 16 November, 2004 - 05:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

J.G.Dare.

Of confirmed horrible letter fame.

Again RUBBISH of no technical content.
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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.249
Posted on Tuesday, 16 November, 2004 - 10:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick. I have been discussing your intended caravan/trailer holiday with a friend in the U.S and he has asked if you could indicate the actual mounting points (at the rear of your car) where you intend to affix and secure your tow bar, or "trailer hitch" as they appear to be known in the U.S. Upon canvassing the various risks/problems associated with towing, my friend (also a Shadow owner) enquired as to the type of unit you propose to tow and upon providing a general description (based on your previous advice) he then asked if you had the "one slice" or "two slice" version. Being somewhat taken back, I was obliged to ask what he meant, at which time he said that a certain type of U.S "trailer" (being of "rounded" proportions and of shiny Aluminium) was commonly referred to (in the U.S) as a TOASTER (reminiscent of Aunt Mauds old General Electric "pop up" one) hence the "one slice/two slice" reference to casually indicate the SIZE of the unit. He added that you probably wont have any rear mount/cross member problems with the smaller "econo" unit, but if you haul the "two slice" model, you might be stretching things (the rear door gaps) a little more that you might have anticipated. I hope you find his input of assistance and will let him know the mount points as soon as you are able to indicate them to us.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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r c brooks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 4.30.43.230
Posted on Monday, 21 February, 2005 - 21:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Posted 20 February 2005 07:52 PM
I decided to change my transmission and differential oil to synthetic. The book calls for 90 weight diff oil. All I could find was Mobil 1 75W90. Will this be satisfactory

(Message approved by david_gore)
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John Dare
Grand Master
Username: jgdare

Post Number: 194
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 22 February, 2005 - 16:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you RC. I use "Amsoil" synthetic (I believe it to be 75/90) in my R-type "Bentley" DIFFERENTIAL, doing so to allow its "thinner" viscosity to basically "get everywhere", where traditional oils may have more difficulty doing so. Although I have had assorted doomsayers tell of much gloom, plus the "inevitability" of rampant leakage (from the pinion seal) due to its viscosity, all appears to be well after 4 years. I have however, continued to use the normal "Dextron" type fluid in the AUTO. transmission, although some people prefer to use "speciality" type auto. trans. fluids of a known proprietory brand.
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R C Brooks
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 4.30.43.230
Posted on Tuesday, 22 February, 2005 - 17:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you, J0hn. The reason I asked was: some 18 years ago I bought a new 318 cu inch Dodge PU. After a 1000 mile break-in, I changed all the oils to Amsoil synthetic. After about 10,000 miles, the rear end became very noisy and remained so until I traded for a motor home at about 60,000 miles. I must admit that the PU was always overloaded with a slide in camper. I still use Synthetic in all my engines with excellent results including my '80 SWII. LRL40634 Cheers, Ralph

(Message approved by david_gore)