| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 184 Registered: 4-2003 |
Having changed out my torque converter yesterday, I took my Turbo R for a good run this morning. I'm very pleased with the reult. After some miles, the speedo started to flicker a little, then go to zero and back up to double speed. Home I drove. Mindful that an exchange sender costs around £320 - what a disgraceful ripoff - I took the sender from the transmission in minutes and opened it up in seconds. To my disbelief, the tiny circuit board inside the transducer / sender is not even laquered when manufactured. I find this incredible, and hope that a conspiracy theory does not apply. Needless to say for an electronic device in a hostile environment, there was corrosion around the solder joints, so I cleaned that off with an instrument screwdriver, laquered the board and reinstalled it. Now it functions perfectly. So, within 15 minutes I had saved myself around £320 in parts alone. Note that there are after-market senders available for a fraction of the price: I fitted one to our T-Series to drive an electronic cruise control as the original mechanical cruise controls are rubbish. How many unfortunate people must have stumped up huge bills for such a pathetic piece of finishing upon manufacture when they may have cleaned the sender up, and laquered it to give it a chance of long term survival ? Replacement senders are available at: http://www.magsensors.com/ Can someone confirm that the senders are 16 pulse/revolution units on SSII cars onwards ? I want to buy one of these as a spare. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.212 |
320 pounds stg.(exchange!) for a R-R transducer/sender (presumably "genuine") the internal components of which were not even laquered?. Dare to Compare with electronic components (many of) in Toyotas Lexus (400/430 series)- quote; "the quality of these components is among the best on the planet and many will outlast the vehicle"; unquote. Source; 2004 edition of "The Dog & Lemon Guide" at page 873,column 1, see my introduction of this book in the post of May 20th under the General heading in this forum. Does this mean that I/We should all rush out and buy cars made by a company which originally manufactured knitting machines?. Of course not. But is DOES invite comment from those among us who tirelessly labour under the illusion (as perpetuated in the mystique and folklore nurtured by bistro "experts" and/or port fortified, indoctrinated fireside "worshippers") that R-R cars are perfect and by inference so too are their constituent parts. I can even recall someone promoting (on more than ONE occasion!) such parts as SUPERLATIVE. Hhhmmm. SUPERLATIVE; 1)"superior to all others" 2) "most eminent" 3) "raised above others to the highest degree". Really?. Tell THAT to the previous poster who described the household repair of his (unlaquered) transducer/sender! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 188 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ahem, the original sender is made by VDO in Germany. Please burn your book. Iconoclastic rubbish is only created to irritate us. The book's author waxes eloquent about Volkswagens but forgot a few details. Those old VW beetles have no features - not even a fuel gauge. Call that reliability ? Easy, as there is practically nothing to be reliable or not. They all have positively dangerous "handling" and a heater from the exhaust pipe. When the exhaust corrodes through every two years, the passengers are gassed with carbon monoxide. Try a front end collision with only a flimsy tank full of petrol to protect you. Thank goodness the transaxles were cheap to repair too as they needed that often, and thank goodness they are air cooled so you can't easily tell if a few head gaskets, actually aluminimum washers, are burned through and blown. As for the 1500/1600 notchbacks, wagons (Variant) and those ghastly fastbacks: even the windscreen washers are so cheap that they use the spare tyre pressure to squirt the liquid, ensuring that you will have a flat spare tyre unless you pump it up regularly. The 1500/1600 notchback etc series ruined VW. The banks were calling for liquidation, but only the Betriebsrat (works councils or unions) saved VW through their mighty power in Germany. When Chevrolet developed the basic concept into a half decent car, the Corvair, Ralph Nader made his sensation, now largely discredited, by naming it "unsafe at any speed" and it died in its boots. Only Subaru finally managed to get it right. The Passat put VW on the respirator before they rusted into the pavement, and finally the Golf saved them. It's ironic that first BMW, then VW, were both bankrupt basket cases in the 1960s. | ||
| Jon Rothwell New User Username: jon_rothwell Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2004 |
Reminds me of a beetle I "fixed" (for a customer) a couple of years ago. It had failed it's roadworthy because the speedo and washer didn't work. The spare tyre was almost flat and the "government approved" workshop had tested the speedo by running the car with its back end jacked up, (the speedo ran off one of the front wheels). One phone call fixed the problem, but I hope I never have to take the Rolls to "qualified" turkeys like that. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, Jon. I must admit that one common quality a Beetle and a Silver anything before the Seraph has, despite noted shortcoming, over a Lexus is repairability. If anything fails, albeit rarely I admit, on a Lexus, there is a very expensive module thrown into the bin and a new one fitted in the hope that the problem is solved. Usually the car has to be trucked to a Blue Ribbon service shop as it has stopped dead in its tracks. Failure modes are usually multiple and terminal. In an RR/B, we first try to find the source of the problem and then repair it, but usually after we have driven home and parked the car in the garage. The trouble with the newly trained-mechanics is that they are not trained as mechanics at all, but that's the fault of the industry, not theirs. They are taught Lego. Throw the bits away and replace them until the car works again. So far so good if the modules are cheap, but Lexus modules are crazy expensive. A friend with an 8 year-old top-of-the-range Lexus LS400 here in Zürich had spent over CHF 18,000 or AUD20,000 on an electrical fault which recurred again and again and stranded him on the Autobahn with his family too many times. New ECU's, new software downloads, modules etc. Finally I said "give us a look mate", and my Swiss friend thought I was stark raving mad until I found and showed him a corroded power terminal on the firewall. In 5 minutes the problem was solved permanently. AMAG Lexus in Zürich did refund him half the charges based on my report as a chartered electrical engineer, but how do you measure reliability in this type of problem ? If a central lock is "as reliable as a politician" at least you can use the key until you clean the mud out of it. I have only heard differentials on Shadows etc actually whine, or to be audible at all when the radio is turned on, when they are really clapped out, but at least you can still drive home. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.250 |
Ahem. I thought the original "complaint" concerned the perceived quality of the(unlaquered) transducer/sender at 320 pnds EXCHANGE given that the equivalent part for a "Falcon" is approx 50 pnds OUTRIGHT. In any event, if VDO did manufacture the part for R-R, it would have been to R-Rs specification (and to an agreed price) with the retail price to the hapless (captive!) customer being set or controlled by R-R. Previous Federal Govt. enquiries into spare parts pricing in Australia have basically confirmed the obvious, for as one witness unashamedly declared "we charge what the market will bear". Ergo, if you are a R-R owner, it is presumed that you WILL pay the listed price when the need arises, the only difference being that you will on exchange ( for the part under discussion) pay over SIX times the price of an equivalent part (outright sale) for a another car, said part also probably being made by VDO/Siemens, whatever!. The suggestion that the consumer auto bible "Dogs & Lemons" be burned, reminds me of the purges in the 30s which sought to deny the TRUTH (untenable as it was) to those impressionable souls, who had been mesmerised and indoctrinated by years of credos and dogma as carefully nurtured by those whose own interests were so ably served. The book is based not on prejudice, hearsay, nor "expert" fireside summation, but upon irrefutable empirical data compiled upon research conducted by recognized consumer/industry groups who survey customer satisfaction/incidence and nature of warranty claims etc. This explains why,in the preface, the publishers INVITE aggrieved auto mnfrs. to sue and to date they have spectacularly failed to do so, presumably because they (all) KNOW that the TRUTH will prevail upon the HARD evidence. In my post, I did not assert that a 1970 VW as opulent or "better" than a Shadow of the same era (at one TENTH of the price it could hardly BE so!) but sought to suggest that anyone looking at EITHER car on the used market should avoid anything that has not been fully (or substantially) rebuilt/refurbished given the age (34 years!) of the cars and the fact that many parts will be worn out and due (if not overdue) for replacement. VW doesnt handle very well? Er.. nor does a 1970 Shadow. My VW had a fuel gauge but many Shadows lacked a reliable temperature gauge (hence my separate mechanical capill. type, as installed ) and only the early Shadows featured an oil pressure gauge. Minor details, not to be challenged given the sanctity of "The Factory"!. I didnt get "gassed"; never rebuilt my transaxle (nor the similar one in my current "Porsche" 356!) and cannot recall VW Beetles (or 356s) being involved in wholesale fires after collisions, any more than I can recall Shadows exploding after rear end damage given the relatively exposed and large (100L) tank. A novel means of maintaining washer pressure via the spare tire (to enable a 1/10 price relative to R-R) seems decidedly immaterial when compared to the "unofficial" factory modification of reducing seepage/loss of oil at the rear main brg. scroll type seal(V8 eng.) by suggesting a lower sump oil level and "regraduating" the dipstick to suit the revised "recommended" operational level!. I can keep going FOREVER!. Unions "saved" VW in Germany? AS did the British Govt. which attempted to save R-R and in the end VW bought the company anyway so it surely IS time for everyone to come out of denial mode and GET OVER IT and MOVE ON!. As for the legendary reliability of the venerable VW Beetle, especially the engine (the tracked "Snow-Cats" sent by Australia to Antartica, circa 1959, used VW derived "Porsche 356" engines) such an undeniable characteristic was not lost upon TENS of MILLIONS of owners or (see prev. post) erstwhile R-R chief engineer, H.Grylls, who apparently had a Rover (company car) but upon his retirement bought a Beetle, noting the similarity of quality standards. I guess HE would KNOW wouldnt he?. If anyone has real doubts about reliability of VWs ( I suspect Continental GT owners dont!) simply look at how many times VWs (Beetles) have come home in around Australia RELIABILITY (see ENDURANCE!) trials (Outright FIRST as I recall, in 1957) and/or London-Sydney Marathons (Hillman Hunter) where the only S/Shadow failed to finish (FTF) having deposited its rear end somewhere en route, doubtless BEFORE it had time to break its pitman arm resulting in ILOC - Immeadiate Loss of control. Playing "boy racer" on Autobahns is one thing (watch those 2 piece "swaged" construction front discs!) but the Australian outback provides a more insightful and practical outcome in the REAL world!. Look at the Factory front cross member mods. to the R-R/B cars of the early 50s as a result of local FIELD experience being the HARD evidence and FACTUAL data upon which the "Dogs & Lemons" book was published. As for the Lexus owner who allegedly spent A$20K at an authorised dealer who was unable to locate high resistance occasioned by nothing more than a corroded terminal (only to have the problem solved by non factory trained person who went "straight to the problem" in only 5 mins???) must surely be the exception to the rule, if not a "miracle". Perhaps not unlike the Bentley (early 90s I believe) owner who had a active ride malfunction identified by an overseas dealer, only to be told that they didnt know the exact cause of the symptom, let alone the corrective remedy. An unsolved "mystery" as it were, offering little cheer to the disillusioned owner. Shadow and Spirits (many of) exhibit the infamous rear axle (diff.) drone/hum noise,typically on "drive" at 75-80K, this being noted by hundred of owners, many of whom recall the total ABSENCE of this phenomena in "lesser"/NON "superlative" cars. Yes..like VW (Transaxles with all the extra bits!) and Toyotas; Camry OR Lexus, take your pick for OUTSTANDING overall RELIABILITY as TRIED and PROVEN! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2003 |
What an exotic file dump that was, mostly drivel. I shall spell out my original message in as few syllables as possible as it may help someone: -------------------------------------------- If your speedo pulser is dodgy, clean and laquer its circuit board. -------------------------------------------- Oh, and if you test a car for purchase and it is one of the very few and neglected ones with a back axle drone, walk away. There are plenty of better ones out there for sale. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.40 |
Sounds good if you are mechanically/electrically oriented but few owners are boy genuises in this regard, the majority probably not even knowing what the pulser does, let alone where it is located and how to "fix" it etc. Not suprising, given the cost of these cars new, buyers/owners not anticipating D.I.Y "band-aid/patchquilt" running repair operations to various control sensors/units etc. Dare to Compare with a 1990 "Honda" Accord which I have, now showing 172K kms and apart from tires/batteries and general service items has ONLY required 1/ repair radiator leak. 2/ replace cam timing belt (at prescribed interval) 3/ replace ignition switch. 4/ replace oxygen sensor. I can verify all of this through Robert Lane Honda in Brighton should anyone doubt or wish to challenge. Now who can boast of such reliability from a late 80s/early 90s R-R/B (esp. the Turbo variant!) over a similar time frame/kms etc?. I havent had to pull my pulser out to "fix" it (its operating just FINE thank you!) nor have I had to fix my torque converter. But then, as stated in previous posts, thats Japanese QUALITY and RELIABILITY for you, see general commentary on Japanese electronics (ESPECIALLY Toyotas!) at page 958 in the auto consumer "bible" titled "The Dog and Lemon Guide" as based upon empirical (HARD) data garnered from owner/field surveys in the real world. I quote therefrom; "ECU problems on Toyotas are rare simply because Toyota builds their computers right in the first place". Hhmmm. I think I can understand that, including a passing reference to the "rugged" electronics generally found in Japanese cars. If they can/could do it, whats the problem with the "Best" car/s in the world? As for humming differentials in Shadows/Spirits, a review of various R-R web forums will reveal that such a problem is common and not suggestive of lack of maintenence or abuse etc. Indeed some learned soul even implied that after 100K kms/miles (whatever) the crown wheel/pinion would "bed in", this tending to suggest that the "quality" of the steel was SO good that a long "running in" process was required. I mentioned this to various qualified R-R/B technicians (with a combined century of experience) and they havent stopped laughing since!. Still, I remain the eternal optimist and as my well maintained Shadow has now started into its next 100k I will be patient and keep on listening and listening and listening. |
