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David Turner
New User
Username: silver_spur

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, 10 October, 2008 - 07:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

2005 phantom each time the car is started i get a service reminder message display on the dash, The car is fully serviced but as i am a 12 hour drive to my nearest dealer. Is there a way that i can reset this my self
Thanks dave
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 792
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 11 October, 2008 - 04:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,
Is it a Canadian spec car or a European spec, re the Block exemption rule.
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David Turner
New User
Username: silver_spur

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, 11 October, 2008 - 07:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick
The car was originaly a US california car now residing in Canada
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 793
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Sunday, 12 October, 2008 - 05:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David, sorry cannot help with the USA spec car, maybe somone in the States can help on any procedure that will reset the service dash display without going to the main dealers.
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David Turner
New User
Username: silver_spur

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, 13 October, 2008 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

thanks anyway Patrick
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StevenBrown
Frequent User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 11 March, 2010 - 02:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not 100% sure but most shops have OBD2 scan tools and should be able to reset. Can/U.S cars are usually the same except for day time running lights for Canada and annoying Kilometers! Both countries believe (not 100%) have Generic codes that are required by law that like most things are the same between the two. And believe service lights are generic codes. So a BMW dealer or independent European car shop might be of help! Replying in case someone else is looking for solution to same problem...............

(Message edited by stevenbrown on 11 March 2010)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 831
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 04 January, 2011 - 04:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Euro 5 compliance legislation now means that independent workshops here in the UK can carry out work on all the latest generation of cars and commercials.
Autologic now supply diagnostic software to rival the RR main dealers with engines,transmissions,chassis dynamic systems,safety systems,audio entertainment systems and body systems and provide complete coding and programming capabilities.
The Phantom, Phantom drophead coupe Phantom coupe and Ghost are now covered by the software.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1291
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 04 January, 2011 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

To a bum amateur such as I, this whole area is fundamental to the survival of the newer cars. We had this nonsense under the old company regime that only dealers could possibly work on Rolls-Royce and Bentleys - one of the myths fostered by some of our clubs to this day along with petit mots such as 'failing to proceed'. Such mantra is designed solely to enhance the snob value of the vehicles which sadly to my observation is the major reason for ownership, at least with post-war cars.

These owners seem fall into three categories.
1. Those who can afford the cars and afford to maintain them.
2. Those who can't (see one above) and after the first major bill flog the car off to some backstreet car yard and spend the rest of their life describing to the great unwashed how lucky they were to escape penury and what bastards the Factory were for conning them into such a purchase, and
3. Those who can't afford them but sell the services of their wife and children and/or themselves to avoid starvation. This allows them to enjoy the remarkable, amazing and fascinating world of mechanical assemblies known as Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars.

I believe that the last group is the end-hope for our vehicles, particularly the post-war cars. Cars I note are know being 'parted' (another little bon mot) actually wrecked for bits in the UK having been sentenced as 'being no longer economical to maintain'. The sooner enthusiasts realise that you can easily spend 4 hours fitting a part that cost $5, the sooner lovers of the Marque will roll up their sleeves and find out how to fix their cars rather than destroy them! (Climbs down off hobby horse).

(Deep beaths). As I understand history, the Factory along with many other makers would not release technical manuals to other than dealers. Many Service Bulletins were headed 'Strictly confidential' largely in the hope of heading off the growing tribe of litigants! But come the seventies the US Congress passed an act that any car sold in their country had to lodge a workshop manual in the Library of Congress! It was the beginning of the end for the technical cabal and some hope for owners striving to keep their cars on the road. It is a pity Wiki-Leaks was not operating then although the demand for our material by the clamouring media would not not generate much revenue!

As to the new crop of cars from Goodwood and Crewe, information seemed to be available down to the tension figures for the last bolt tightening but now I hear that future technical advice will be issued on CD's that have an expiry date and only issued to a very definite community in the motoring world. Is this back to the bad old days I wonder?

As to the survival of the current Phantoms, the complexity of the cars, their relative rarity and the cost of replacement parts, I really wonder about enthusiasts of the next generation and their ability to keep these cars on the road. As an instance an owner dropped the story the other day of having a flat tyre on his Phantom which as we know does not have a spare wheel. The dealers were able to quickly replace the tyre and wheel on an exchange basis for just $3200!

All these problems are not the sole preserve of our cars, we have just bought a Toyota Aurion that does everything other than perform personal hygeine for the driver and there is simply no manual, service information or even general information as to how the car works!!!!!!!!
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John Budden
Experienced User
Username: johnb

Post Number: 28
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 04 January, 2011 - 04:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Happy New Year Bill and all.
I wonder what will happen when the current crop of fanatics pass from this world- those that were inspired to buy cars they could not afford in their youth but with time entered Bills third group- yours truly included?
How can we inspire those who today admire but dont seem to aspire?
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1292
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 04 January, 2011 - 05:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well John, I suppose we won't worry will we. There is hope though as during a couple of local seances here, the word was that the Marque is well represented at the next stop!! Take your tools with you!
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Bill Payne
Frequent User
Username: wimpy

Post Number: 60
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 04:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Had a client who requested I investigate his wife's late model XKE with a transmission failure to proceed, dealership had quoted $9K USD. Went to the dealership, figuring I could at least check the odor of the transmission fluid. Imagine my surprise to discover you can no longer check fluids.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 832
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 08:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill.You need to plug a diagnostic tool onto it which can access the gearbox, there you will find oil level and oil quality.

Alternatively you could drain the oil into a measuring container and check the quantity against the autodata capacity figure, also that will allow you to check for any odors or metal shavings etc.
On many more modern cars the autoboxes have a nasty habit of complete failure. Its caused by the radiator leaking into the oil cooler for the autobox mixing the fluids then knackering the box. New radiator, gearbox, torque converter and all piping etc needing to be replaced.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1293
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 08:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Shudder! Soon after getting the Toy which I should say is a delight to drive goes like you know what off a hot shovel etc etc but quintessentially boring, I was sitting in a traffic jam with my foot on the brake when I noticed my foot was slowly proceding to the floor. Clearly the master cylinder was on the way out methought. Made a rather smug observation to the service manager who is a great bloke, and he advised that they do that and it was quite normal. I am of course obliged to believe him. I have since hopped into a number of other examples of the car and repeated the performance - seems they all really do!! Nobody however can tell me why or how the system works.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 833
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 09:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill C best get rid of the toy and become true enthusiast of the RR marque using it for all uses.
To many recalls on the newer cars and how many years have they been making them!
Hope your service chappy is well informed just looked at the Aurion.

"Toyota in Japan claims 30,000 affected Australian cars but the Australian office suggests a lesser amount.
The problem is not yet classed as a recall in Australia, though spokesperson Laura Hill says that may change after investigating the issue.

“We are still considering our action,” she says.

“We’re not in a position now to make that decision - that will be done tomorrow.’’

Toyota Australia has been aware for two days of the slow leak of brake fluid in some Lexus and Toyota models but was believed to be awaiting an investigation in Japan.

Cars affected include some Lexus IS and GS models and possibly the Toyota Aurion and some SUVs. The production dates of these vehicles are not known.
In a statement from Japan, the company says: “In some cases, a small amount of brake fluid can leak from the brake master cylinder and as a result, braking performance may gradually decline.’
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 708
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 09:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Most of the newer "sealed" gearboxes have a "dual level" drain plug which consists of a plug with a tube that extends upwards into the box ~ the top of the tube corresponding to the correct fluid level. you then need a filler tube with a small enough o.d. to pass through the tube and pump the fluid in until it over flows the drain tube. Others have the tube but rely on dropping the sump to drain it.

Both are messy and wasteful. There is also a 'correct procedure ' for filling ~ Running to a specific temperature and going through the complete gear range etc.

The following ( which is two of three pages) comes under the Motor Industry's heading of ~ progress! :-)

11/09/08 WT 01000 09-2008 [English] / Transmission fluid level - To drain, renew, check and top-up. Page 1
(OID = <14158_5_1_1> UID = <2132> Dataset = <wt>)
Transmission fluid level - To drain, renew, check and top-up.
This document describes three individual procedures:
• 1. To drain the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) from the transmission, refer to Transmission fluid - To drain.
• 2. To renew the ATF if the transmission has been drained. To replenish the ATF following Transmission or ATF cooling circuit
component removal and refit, refer to Transmission fluid - To renew

Important:
Removal and refit of the transmission will result in loss of fluid from the front and centre differential cooling circuit.
Therefore, procedure "Front and centre differential oil -To renew" must also be performed at the same time.
• 3. To check and top-up the ATF following fluid renewal, or for routine level checks where the ATF cooling circuit has not been
disturbed, refer to Transmission fluid - To check and top-up.
Position the car on a ramp. (refer to bin: 0000)
Shift the transmission to the P-park position and apply the electro-mechanical parking brake.
Connect the diagnostic computer (VAS 5052) and refer to Diagnostic system - Guided functions / Component Replacement. Navigate
to "Select Vehicle System or Function", select Transmission / Transmission Control, and finally "Check Fluid Level - Transmission".
Monitor ATF temperature for following procedures. (refer to bin: 0909)
Note:
Ensure that the transmission is not in "limp home mode", ie; Transmission locked in 3rd or 5th drive gear. Visual indication when
transmission in limp home mode via "all gear selector positions illuminated on DIP display", or transmission faults present, indicated via
VAS5052.
Ensure that a suitable container is always placed beneath the relevant orifice when topping-up the transmission fluid levels.
Always use new fluid to top-up the transmission. (refer to table: cons_03_by614_01)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission fluid - To drain
Remove the engine underbody "rear screening panel". (refer to bin: 0825)
The drain plug for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) is located towards the front left hand side of the transmission sump.
Ensure that a suitable container is placed beneath the sump drain port.
Warning:
Wear safety goggles.
Remove the ATF drain plug (arrow), and drain ATF.
032102w0002
Note:
Observe relevant oil disposal regulations.
The engine must not be started and vehicle must not be towed without ATF in transmission.
Installation:
Fit a new plug and seal. Torque tighten. (refer to table: torq_030100_by614_01)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission fluid - To renew
Perform this procedure if the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) has been drained, or following transmission / ATF cooling system
component removal and refit.
Warning:
Wear safety goggles.
Remove the ATF inspection plug (arrow), located on the underside, at the rear of the transmission sump.
032102w0003
Exchange the universal filler pipe supplied with VAG 1924 with specific ATF filler pipe VAG 1924-1. Filler Pipe is removed by pressing
the sprung collar at the interface with the valve housing towards the valve housing, while sliding the filler pipe out of the socket. Filler
pipe is fitted by pushing into socket up to abutment, and pulling back to lock in place. (refer to table: tool_030100_by614_01)
Fill reservoir of ATF filling unit VAG 1924 with ATF, and secure reservoir at a suitable height to enable gravity feed into the transmission
sump. (refer to table: tool_030100_by614_01)
032101w0010
Guide filler pipe VAG 1924-1 in from below, through an opening in the deflector cap (Arrow), taking care not to push the deflector cap
upwards out of position.
032101w0009
Note:
Care should be taken when filling through the inspection hole not to dislodge the protection cap inside the oil sump.
Shift the transmission selector to the P-park position and apply the electro-mechanical parking brake.
Start engine and turn off after 15-20 seconds. Ensure that the exhaust gases are extracted from the workshop.
Important:
If the engine runs for longer, the ATF pump will draw air and begin "foaming".
Continue filling with ATF until it overflows from the inspection hole again.
Start engine.
Continue filling with ATF until it overflows from the inspection hole again.
Refit the inspection plug.
With engine still at idle. Firmly apply the foot brake and shift the selector lever through all available positions, leaving selector lever in
each position for approximately 10 seconds.
Shift the selector to the N-neutral position.
Increase engine speed to 2000 rpm for 1 minute. This ensures the torque converter is filled with oil.
Shift the selector to the P-park position.
Remove the inspection plug.
Continue filling with ATF, with engine idling, until it overflows from the inspection hole again. When the oil flow reduces to a trickle, refit
the ATF inspection plug, and torque tighten. (refer to table: torq_030100_by614_01)
Switch of engine.
To ensure the ATF cooler circuit is filled, let the engine idle in P-park until the ATF temperature achieves at least 85°C (185°F). If
necessary carry out a brief road test to achieve this temperature.
This allows the cooler thermostat to open (Nominal opening temperature 80°C [176°F]), thus filling the cooler circuit.
Caution:
Ensure the front and intermediate differentials have been filled with fluid prior to road testing. (refer to bin: 0409)
The ATF and differential fluids are not compatible, ensure the correct fluids are used !
Switch off engine and allow ATF to cool down below 30°C (86°F), or to ambient temperature in hot climates. Continue to next procedure
Transmission fluid - To check and top-up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission fluid - To check and top-up
Perform this procedure following automatic transmission fluid (ATF) renewal, or for routine level checks where the ATF cooling circuit
has not been disturbed.
Ensure the ATF temperature is below 30°C (86°F), or at ambient temperature in hot climates, at the start of the procedure, monitoring
the ATF temperature via the diagnostic computer (VAS 5052).
Note:
The ATF level is correct if a small amount of fluid comes out of the inspection plug hole when ATF temperature is between 35°C
(95°F) and 45°C (113°F), or 50°C (122°F) in hot climates (the fluid level rises due to expansion as it warms up).
The procedure must be aborted if the ATF temperature exceeds 50°C (122°F) and the ATF allowed to cool down below 30°C (86°F),
or to ambient temperature in hot climates, before continuing.
Exchange the universal filler pipe supplied with VAG 1924 with specific ATF filler pipe VAG 1924-1. Filler Pipe is removed by pressing
the sprung collar at the interface with the valve housing towards the valve housing, while sliding the filler pipe out of the socket. Filler
pipe is fitted by pushing into socket up to abutment, and pulling back to lock in place.
Fill reservoir of ATF filling unit VAG 1924 with ATF, and secure reservoir at a suitable height on ramp to enable gravity feed into the
transmission sump
032101w0010
With the ATF temperature below 30°C (86°F), or at ambient temperature in hot climates. Ensure the transmission selector lever is in
the P-park position and the electro-mechanical parking brake applied .
Start the engine and run at idle speed (600-700 rev/min), ensuring that the exhaust gases are extracted from the workshop.
Warning:
Wear safety goggles.
When the ATF temperature reaches 35°C (95°F), remove the ATF inspection plug (arrow), located on the underside, at the rear of the
transmission sump. Drain off any surplus ATF.
032102w0003
If ATF drips steadily out of the inspection hole, ATF level is OK.
Note:
Only a small amount of ATF should come out of the inspection hole when the engine is running.
The ATF inspection plug must be refitted again before the ATF reaches a temperature of 45°C (113°F), or 50°C (122°F) in hot
climates.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 709
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 09:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill ~ on brakes ~ many new cars seem to do this. Ditto.

I think it's to do with lack of master cylinders and excess of electronics and pumps :-(

Many 90's Mercedes get a Electronic Brake Control unit fault light coming on . . . not because there is anything wrong with them, but because a software programmer added a 'brake depresses' counter which flagged a warning light after X presses. Unfortunately he neglected to write the instructions to allow the 'STAR' diagnostics unit to reset the count to zero. This led to many customers forking out about £1700 for replacement units until Mercedes found it was too much of a trend to cover up and they had to do it for free!
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1294
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 05 January, 2011 - 03:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Paul/ I'm going out to get a case of Brandy. See you at pill time!

BBC
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 985
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2011 - 07:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This certainly looks like a classic "one step forward - two steps backwards" situation.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2285
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2011 - 01:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


quote:

wife's late model XKE .. transmission … quoted $9K USD.



As Monty Python would say, That’s Nothing.

$9k is Not Too Bad. When I had my Turbo R in for a full transmission overhaul less than a year ago, a guy rolled up with a limping 180,000km 2003 VW Touareg. You know them, built in Bratislava, Slovakia and Kaluga, Russia, with a 6-speed auto transmission. Those transmissions have a habit of disintegrating at 100,000km it turns out, usually when the valve body splits in two and several ratios engage at once. It had cost the guy over $20,000 (US$20,500) to repair first time at the VW dealership, but the shop quoted him just $13,000 this time. Heavens, those old Touaregs are only worth $20,000 at most by now.

Those particular vehicles make a mockery of servicing. For example, the turbochargers and manifolds must be removed to repair the electric steering pump and so on.

On the subject of complexity, we said exactly the same about Silver Shadows when they were new as is often said about the new cars today. We pitied the sons who were to look after them when the cars turned 20 years old. However, by then, we regarded the SYs as rather simple to work on and readily overhaulable. Who knows, we may consider the latest bunch of cars from Goodwood and Crewe to be primitive and darned simple to overhaul in 20 years too.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1295
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2011 - 02:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You are probably right Richard but I won't be around. But I am now wondering whether we should get rid of the Aurion and get a decent Shadow I. $20,000 would buy an awful lot of fuel!
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Brian Crump
Frequent User
Username: brian_crump

Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2011 - 02:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hmmmm - you look more like a PI or PII man to me Bill.
Regards,
Brian

(Message edited by brian_crump on 06 January 2011)
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 121
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Thursday, 06 January, 2011 - 07:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all,

Happy new year to you all.

I could not agree more: in the 1980's when most manufacturers introduced electronic fuel injection and ABS at a large scale, many were sure that they would be irrepareable after 20 years and that the good old carburettor was still the way to go... and look now, these systems can be repaired and are usually no great cause for concern.

What I find more troublesome is the massive use of plastics for stressed mechanical components (pumps, housings, etc...) which inevitably de-plastify and break. Of course these could be re-engineered back to metal by enthusiasts (who might well do it for RR and B) but many other cars will be almost impossible to maintain, once the supply of some components dry out.

Last year I has amazed at the plastic thermostat housing construction of my father's V6 Honda, it was a piece of sh***t that had disintegrated in less than 60.000 miles, all purpose made components by Honda.

Same goes for Jaguar's plastic impellers (pumps), etc...
See you
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2287
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 07 January, 2011 - 09:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The same goes for those plastic radiator tanks on 1987+ Crewe cars. They are the German BEHR units, as fitted to most German cars from the mid 1980s. I had new ones fabricated from metal when I replaced my radiator due to stone damage a few years back.
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 159
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, 07 January, 2011 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

ohhh while we are at it, the crappy plastic coolant pressure bottle on 87+ crewe cars that tends to inflate like a balloon before exploding coolant all over the engine bay.... I replaced both this pressure bottle, cap and header tank on my 89 Turbo within months of first buying the car.
My 86 Spirit on the other hand, other than annual coolant flushes and a new thermostat as per 5 year schedule, has never needed the main components of the cooling system touched in the 7 years I've owned it....in being so cocky I fear what the Rolls has in store for me just to put me back in my box... :o)

J
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1297
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 07 January, 2011 - 03:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian/ I have to confess that without a parts manual and complete service manual I go into get-you-home mode on prewar cars. I started with a Silver Dawn, sweltered through the 'S' series dipped into the Shadows and fell into the Spirits. Now they want me to plug into orifii and read gauges - it's some form of geriatic abuse methinks. When I feel firm ground under my feet I'll start flailing again! And currently I am being asked about the ideal density for the lobster aspic and the ideal temperature for the Moet (sp)! It's all too much!
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1298
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 07 January, 2011 - 04:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard/ I have an '89 Turbo squatting at the back of my garage at the moment which has a very nice metal top tank. One observer, observed that it was not original but it looks too professional to me. The bottom tank is still plastic! What is/was the original??

I have just spent $1000 on a new radiator for the '87 Spirit whose only problem was a snapped off upper intake nozzle.
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Nigel Johnson
Experienced User
Username: nigel_johnson

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, 07 January, 2011 - 09:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Snapped off upper intake nozzle. That was a common problem on W126 Mercedes. Plastic manifolds ruined many a small Rover engine. All age related. At least you know where you are with copper, steel and iron. Regards, Nigel.
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Bill Payne
Frequent User
Username: wimpy

Post Number: 61
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Saturday, 08 January, 2011 - 01:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The extremely reliable 4.6 Ford V8 went to a completely plastic intake manifold in 96. Heating/cooling cycles over time creates a crack between the air and coolant passages resulting in overheated or destroyed engine. Eventual massive recall and tons of dissatisfied customers, but the initial savings was enough to make the change without regard to future consequences.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 986
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 08 January, 2011 - 07:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just goes to prove accountants should never be allowed to over-rule engineers.

The worst part is the accountants responsible for cost-cutting measures such as this are never around to document the costs and damage to their employer's reputation when situations like this occur. The subsequent costs usually exceed the profit made from the initial cost saving.

This is a problem going back centuries - an old saying "the ship was lost for want of a half penny of tar" is a good example. I once worked for an old-school General Manager who firmly believed his accountants' sole responsibility was to keep him informed on how much money he had to spend and not how to spend it!

(Message edited by david_gore on 08 January 2011)
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Mark Aldridge
Experienced User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, 08 January, 2011 - 09:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,as a Practising Accountant dealing predominantly with the agricultural sector,I totaly agree with your old General Manager. Farmers hate being told how to spend their money! and accountants do far more damage interfering in matters which are outside their field of expertise.
Mark
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2295
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 04 February, 2011 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

Both top and bottom were originally the BEHR plastic variety from SZ MY1987 onwards (the only real drawback of the early 20k cars that I know of). They are made of hard, brittle plastic and then become more brittle and oxydised with age and heat. They have a habit of almost always snapping their drain/bleed blanks – also plastic. Diabolical, but may be sealed off with epoxy. Uuurgh. Then it becomes worse. With age, maybe as early as 5-10 years, the plastic becomes brittle and the hose adaptors tend to crack or break off. Even before then, the tanks can suffer from vibrations or jarring on moderate road surfaces. Also, the core seals to the tank with a gasket as shown in the picture below, and relies on crimps, part of the core, to hold it all together. Eventually the gaskets leak and there is no repair other than a recore which works. I have shown a picture of the old core which was rather clean but was holed by a stone along with the aircon condenser.

I have had the same problems on fairly new BMWs which also use BEHR plastic tanks.

If you like, I can photograph the metal tanks I had made for my replacement a few years back.

RT.

Old BEHR plastic tanks removed: replaced by fabricated metal tanks.


Old core. Note the crimping tabs bent back to remove the tanks. The condition of the core proves the merits of 50%50 coolant and being changed regularly.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 124
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Monday, 07 February, 2011 - 06:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

As I am afraid my car uses the same Behr tanks, I would really like to see the metal ones you fabricated. Might be a thing to do for me.

Best regards,

Lluís
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 182
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 08 February, 2011 - 04:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

LLuis,
I had my whole radiator assembly made form Aluminium. This may be the best option if the economics work out for you. I had mine made for $500 US.
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 125
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 09 February, 2011 - 01:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar,

That is very decent indeed. Where did you have it made? Was it a fit-and-forget thing, or did you have any difficulties?

Thanks,

Lluís
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Omar M. Shams
Prolific User
Username: omar

Post Number: 183
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 09 February, 2011 - 03:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Lluis,
A friend of mine is the General manager of a major radiator manufacturing and repair centre in the UAE. He offered to make the radiator at cost. The job he did was splendid. The radiator is better than the car itself. Meanwhile my head gasket blew and I have not got round to repairing it yet.The new radiator is still in its wrapping in the boot of the car. When I fix the head gasket, I will fit the new radiator too.
Here is a funny story: I bought a complete car to use the engine as a total replacement in case the head gasket repair fails.The cost of the donor car was less than the cost I have been quoted for fixing the head gasket!!!
If you want to see an image of the aluminium radiator let me know and I will get that done for you.
Thanks
Omar
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Lluís Gimeno-Fabra
Prolific User
Username: lluís

Post Number: 126
Registered: 8-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 09 February, 2011 - 06:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello again,

In the meantime I found some specialist that can do aluminium radiators...

I was thinking however that quite a few of these dramatic bursts must be climate related... talking to Brabo here, they have hardy ever seen a radiator burst. My Jaguar, at 300.000 Km with a plastic radiator top has never seen a burst or crack. But this is The Netherlands and before it was Deutschland. Maybe in very hot weathers like UAE or Australia the situation is different, don't know really. But at least you should have less salt on the roads...

See you,

Lluís
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 715
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 09 February, 2011 - 07:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The newer ones have been modified with a metal sleeve in the plastic outlets. If you epoxy a tube inside the existing outlet they should last far longer. In the UK we have not really had a problem with the tanks leaking at the crimps.

Lluis . . . we have less salt on the roads to . . . but only through lack of planning! ;)

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