| Author | Message | ||
     richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 950 Registered: 4-2012 |
was at my car club last night and a friend told me that his Bentley Arnage was in Manchester Having head gaskets replaced the company is also fitting a new radiator, sounds expensive, My question is should these cars have there head bolts re torqued and possibly a larger capacity radiator fitted before this situation occurs. Richard. | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Prolific User Username: tasbent Post Number: 160 Registered: 9-2017 |
Richard....the early Bentley engined Arnages are prone to head gasket failure which is mainly down to a couple of things....lack of proper scheduled maintenance and abusive driving habits....meaning that the engine is not allowed to get some heat into it before being hammered. These engines are a big lump at 6.75 ltrs and require a little sympathy...given that they spend 90% of their time trundling around at very low revs and then are given the welly. The head gaskets were a known dodgy point and it was prudent to have the head bolts re-torqued at around 40,000 mls. As for the radiators, they are more than up to the task if the correct coolant is used and the engine completely reverse flushed and fitted with new thermostat every three years. But as so often happens with these cars, they are sorrowfully neglected because owners like the flash without spending the cash to maintain them at the proper level and usually using cheap oil not changed at the correct interval and nasty fuel which doesn't do the injectors or pumps any favours. | ||
| Neville Davies Frequent User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 79 Registered: 9-2006 |
Richard. Maxwell. It seems that around about 1995 when they modified the cylinder heads this has become a common problem.Some respected sales firms in the U.K.have advertised as a plus if that a car they have for sale has had new gaskets.Though I guess that some people would be wary that the motor had not been overheated. Nev | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Prolific User Username: tasbent Post Number: 161 Registered: 9-2017 |
Neville, the disturbing thing is The Company knew of the problem even in the SZ turbo cars and it seemed to be exacerbated in the Arnage cars which I truly believe to be the pinnacle in style and comfort. If it is taken into account when buying one of these cars....as they say provenance is everything. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 951 Registered: 4-2012 |
My own car a 1997 turbo R has 42000 miles done and has had no problems, it seems that this is the mileage that this problem starts and that the prudent thing would be to re torque the head bolts Richard. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 2037 Registered: 6-2006 |
Richard, much of it seems to be lack of anti-freeze changes and then they go when booting them from cold. Prevention is certainly cheaper than cure! | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1828 Registered: 9-2004 |
A pain in the neck but not as bad as some diesel Range Rovers, you have to remove the body to get the cylinder heads off! Heater plugs can be fun as well. My view on the blown gasket failure is to over come the problem once and for all. Never done one but how about using Helicoils on all the cylinder stud block threads and to use stretch bolts instead if possible. IF any excess overheating one should check for head and the liner deck distortion and more ie pistons etc etc. | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Prolific User Username: tasbent Post Number: 162 Registered: 9-2017 |
Patrick, I agree. The Rangies have their body lifted in reverse of factory line assembly....it's quicker and simpler. I have watched this performed on a two post lift. An hour to disconnect everything necessary and up it goes leaving drive train and chassis exposed to be worked on at ease....much more sensible and actually quicker. Regards the Bentley head issue, it's not so much the head,block interface that's the problem, it's the actual gaskets themselves that seem to cause the problem along with abuse, neglect and lack of understanding of the design. Bentley is not alone in this problem at the time, Jaguar, BMW and others suffer similar problems. Never use cheap oils and poor quality coolants, perform scheduled servicing earlier....it becomes a distance over time issue and give the engine a chance to warm a little (at least until the O2 sensors 'strike off')before moving off and don't cane the bejeezus out of it too early. | ||
| john headley Yet to post message Username: john_headley Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2018 |
I do not buy the distance over time issue. I have owned many cars over many years with alu head, iron block/alu block wet liner combinations without the relatively early head gasket failure. It seems to me a much more common a problem with this particular engine than others and I don't think RR/B owners abuse their cars more than others. Although this problem seems only to be common with the later turbo engines, they produce only about 60bhp/litre which I don't consider much by any standards. I think I must be one of those who have a lack of understanding of the design as you say. I think perhaps the problem is with the design. I think VW have changed the head gasket, has this helped? I have not heard or read of similar problems with the BMW v8 engined Arnage or the BMW v12 engined Seraph.Both of them without steel liners. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1852 Registered: 9-2004 |
Solved by stretch bolts it seems on later cars!  | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 214 Registered: 6-2010 |
What a timely thread, I fear mine went yesterday! 98 Brooklands 'R' LPT took the dogs out for a walk, car started misfiring about a mile into the journey so drove it gently the last 500 yards to the park. When I went back to it, hydraulic locked! It went to Specialist cars on the back of an AA low loader and I got home about 9:00pm frozen stiff and wet through. Ho hum. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 962 Registered: 4-2012 |
David I am sorry to hear about your situation, When you get it back enjoy driving it, Best wishes. Richard. | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 215 Registered: 6-2010 |
Richard my old mate, I feel more like setting it on fire and roasting marshmallows than anything else with the rotten thing. I've done 2000 miles in 3 years in it and it's cost £25000 at Specialist cars in that time. It's more or less new underneath and the damn car still hates me! I have borrowed a Vauxhall Astra estate from a friend (what a brilliant gesture, so pleased to have good friends with multiple cars ) and it is fine and he cares not a jot for it. I sometimes think that is the way to be with cars. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2871 Registered: 4-2003 |
David, If it is any consolation from my experience over the years, the following always applies: "The more problems you have at the beginning, the better will be the subsequent ownership experience." and, unfortunately, the converse "if it goes all right at the beginning, everything always goes wrong thereafter". Please don't give up now as the future WILL change for the better. You can be certain the previous owner knew the future expenses would occur and passed the car on knowing this would be the case. I just hope you were not "stung" excessively by the purchase price. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Grand Master Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 526 Registered: 10-2008 |
Ouch David, and I am crying because I have just sold my Mulsanne which including purchase and all maintenanace costs for 4 years totalled £10k and it sold for £4500. However, I do majority of my own repairs, and I covered about 25k miles in 4 years. The dealer collected it yesterday and it is up for sale today. I hope the replacement W123 Mercedes will prove as inexpensive, although this will continue to be Merc Specialist maintained by the firm that has maintained it for 28 out of its 33years and who have looked after previous Mercs that I have had and my Shadow when it was in daily use. | ||
| David Towers Prolific User Username: xtriple Post Number: 216 Registered: 6-2010 |
It's really annoying: I have had lots of trouble with this thing since the day I got it - the dealer that sold it was a bit of fibber so it needed all new front suspension, steering rack, brakes, engine mounts, various bushes... the list went on and on. Then electrical faults, ecu's etc. I have looked after it like a baby, spent whatever it has needed, and it still hates me! I used to do all my own maintenance but age and disability have put paid to all that sadly. Nothing on a car or bike scared me, I have done everything to cars at some point and usually enjoyed myself while doing it. Now, I can't even undo a wheelnut!  | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 966 Registered: 4-2012 |
I was speaking to my friend that has the Arnage with the head gasket trouble, he was quoted £5000 plus VAT £6000 in total, they are now telling him that the head gasket has been replaced prior to this time and because of the bad workmanship and the amount of extra work and parts involved the end cost is going to be £10000, Richard. | ||
| Nigel Coombe Experienced User Username: nigel_adelaide Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2017 |
The old Shadows seem to be the best or least up to the 1989 Spirits.My dads 72 Shadow did 345000 miles and still going strong when sold it and regular oil and filter changes the solution and drive it everyday. My current 88 Spirit has done 210000 kms and running beautifully and only service items ever been done the big one being rear and front gas spheres. | ||
| KEITHJWHERRYgmail.com Unregistered guest |
My 2001 Arnage Red label overheated, and blew gasket. The repairer had the heads tested for softness and they say one is Brinell BHN 75 and one is 62. Apparently 70 is the minimum. What do L do? New head, or just replace and drive carefully? The car does only a few 1000 per annum, is very well maintained and not driven hard. The cyl head surfaces have been smoothed and the new style gaskets available (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3947 Registered: 04-2003 |
Keith, As a professional metallurgist, I was always very cautious about hardness test results as the reported results are very dependent on the skill and experience of the person conducting the test and the item being tested kept absolutely rigid while the test is being performed. If I had been tasked to test your heads, I would have undertaken a minimum of 3 tests at different locations [one at each end and one in the centre] and reviewed the results to ensure they were representative of the component being tested. I would have been cautious about the 62BHN result due to possible movement of the head whilst being tested and undertaken a 2nd test after repositioning the head to ensure it was rigidly held during the test. I would also have taken particular care to ensure the test indentations were in locations that would not affect proper sealing by the head gaskets after reinstallation. I would be more concerned about the flatness of the head rather than hardness due to the effects of uneven thermal expansion by the localised heating from leakage of the hot exhaust gas after the gasket failed. I suggest you should contact Andrew Gibson from the RROCA NSW Branch who may be able to help with further advice or suggest someone who can also help. |
