| Author | Message | ||
     Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 497 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Took Camilla out on a trip today, she ran flawlessly. Then on the way back we had a F-T-P Stopped on a freeway off ramp the light went green. Released the hand brake lightly feathered the throttle and she rolls forward then loss of power,.... engine stopped, all warning lights on. Will not start, wants to start but no fuel. Anyway, had her towed to UK Motors where she is now. The tow truck driver wanted to put the winch on the front control arms,... Heck NO! Aint gonna happen on my watch! I made him get the snatch strap and I threaded it around the block the control arms attach to that is bolted to the frame.  I can't believe he wanted to hook onto and pull on the control arms,.... I think the fuel pump failed but will find out later, I had no tools with me at the time. This is the first F-T-P I've had in 30yrs since my Datsun 1600's carby iced up during a snow fall. Graham. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 782 Registered: 11-2017 |
When a fuel pump fails, it is generally not a quick FTP, it is a slow sputtering ending as the fuel is used. You may very well have a failed Opus module. Check for spark first. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 499 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,... Unless the fuse for the fuel pump blew/ broke contact? We were sitting at a red light for a while,... It did fire and want to run several times but I'd say the float bowls had run out by then,.... Graham. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2017 |
If it starts when left to cool over night, there is a good chance it is the Opus and also the coil. Always start by checking for spark. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3290 Registered: 06-2009 |
I've had both a fuel-pump-death FTP and a Lucas Opus going belly up FTP, and the symptoms were quite different. I don't recall having a sputtering end from the fuel pump dying, but it wasn't exactly "light switch" like, either. The Lucas Opus failure happens, based not only on my own experience but all that I've read, only once the car is up to temperature, and very frequently involves a backfire or two just before the car will go no further. When I had to get my car back to my house, after learning that you could generally go a few miles at a time before the failure recurred, that's precisely what I ended up doing. I carefully chose my route so that I could pretty much be assured that I could pull off the road to allow for several-hour to overnight cooling cycles during the trip home. That particular FTP its aftermath and its repair were well documented in the topic: A Christmas FTP!! . . . Brian | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2534 Registered: 09-2004 |
Drive like a Nun and your fuel pump will sure to let you down (FTP) Give the engine some stick now and then up a long hill if one side of the pump is not working the engine will falter through lack of fuel. Running on one side of the pump when it fails the whole car fails | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 783 Registered: 10-2008 |
My experience with fuel pump failure was an unexplained drop in power followed by the engine stopping. When the coil failed the engine noticeably missed irregularly until it stopped and restarted when the coil had cooled off , stopping again when hot. I carry a spare coil and "cube fuel pump" as a get me home. Mark | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3291 Registered: 06-2009 |
I drove SRH33576 from Virginia to Utah and back, over the Rockies as part of it, running on only one of the two dual pumps. It was very clear once the other one gave out, and I went about rebuilding the unit, that the other had been dead for many years. I know that I posted images from that rebuild here at one point or another. That was back in 2009 if memory serves. Brian | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 502 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Ok, the news we have all been waiting for,.... Around lunch time I dropped into UK motors and spoke to Tony. As it turns out the fuel pump is working just fine. Excellent in fact. The problem it seems is the Petronix ignition module has failed but here is something interesting Tony found. There is about an inch in play if you turn the rotor button before any movement in the dizzy shaft at the bottom. You can lift the rotor button and the shaft lifts as well about half an inch then you can spin the rotor button but the shaft at the bottom of the dizzy dose not move. Something has also broken inside,... When I replaced the dizzy cap and rotor just after I got Camilla there was no where near that much play. Anyway Tony is sending the Dizzy off to get a Bosch ignition module fitted. It will take about a week. Anyway, thats how it stands.  Graham. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 785 Registered: 11-2017 |
Someone bodged the Pertronix installation. You do away with the original baseplate since a new one comes with the Pertronix. Those 3 round head screws are an instant clue. In fact the module should sit on the opposite side from where it is now. I have installed a few of these and they take less than 30 min to install. It amazes me how these simple improvements get screwed up by stupid techs. There is play in the shaft for the distributor to advance. Simply buy a new Pertronix and you are all set. Sadly the shop is going to charge you accordingly. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 786 Registered: 11-2017 |
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| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 503 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,..... Tony said the dizzy will be stripped rebuilt new base plate and a bosch module fitted. The bosch is what he puts in because they are better than what was in it. As I have never had a vehicle with these modules in them before I have to defer to those who have history with them. Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 365 Registered: 07-2018 |
All the Pertronix units that I have had, had failed. They can't take heat, plus the early ones were made in the US, but who knew where the parts were sourced, and that was the problem. The present ones are supposed to have dealt with the failures, but electronics are not forever. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 504 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,..... Anyone seen these? https://123ignitionusa.com/rolls-royce/?fbclid=IwAR2djoKx7v3wwzMcMMyKAxKWkzd0k3ErLwrJmQMRwSCNgnrXBf0Kzsgr8ds Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 366 Registered: 07-2018 |
https://123ignitionusa.com/rolls-royce/?fbclid=IwAR2djoKx7v3wwzMcMMyKAxKWkzd0k3ErLwrJmQMRwSCNgnrXBf0Kzsgr8ds Yes, I plan on getting one of those for my MK VI, but I have to find a way to deal with the heat. You get rid of the mechanical advance weights, it's all done electronically. | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 354 Registered: 10-2009 |
Am I in a minority? My Bentley T has used standard points since bought 20 years ago, and I assume for the preceding 30+ years. It has never FTP for ignition reasons (the only FPT was caused by a bad switch-box contact, cured by twisting the key slightly CW while driving). A year ago I realised I had not checked the ignition system since ???. The contacts were slightly pitted - they were gently filed flat. The car has taken us round Scotland three or four times, ditto Wales, lots of tours of England, all starting from the south-west corner. Just done 100+ mile round trip, no problems. Alan D. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 505 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Am I correct in that one of the improvements made with the series II was dropping of the points and the use of an ignition module instead? The original was an Opus and when that fails most replace with the Petronic or similar? Do I have it correct? I guess I am at the point when the unit in Camilla has failed and now its being replaced. Graham | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 785 Registered: 10-2008 |
From the late Shadow 1, Opus is used. Had opus fail on a early Spirit, fitted Pertronix and did 40K miles trouble free in 3 years. Still ran perfectly when I sold it. Had a cheap electronic unit fail on my MG but the suppliers replaced it, and it has been good so far; 15K miles. Mark | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 787 Registered: 11-2017 |
Opus was introduced to replace the points. Improvements were introduced at chassis numbers vs Ser 1 or Ser II nomenclature. The Pertronix I and also Pertronix II (improved) are extremely reliable. I have both in my cars for years. Opus was introduced in June '75 around chassis 22,000 and a year earlier on the Camarque. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2535 Registered: 09-2004 |
To be precise from my records the Shadow 1 had the Opus first fitted August 75 chassis 22118. Corniche chassis 22648 Jan 76 and Camarque chassis 22583. BTW Opus can be repaired to keep the car original! | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2314 Registered: 05-2012 |
I had 2 powerspark failures. I suspected high temperatures in the distributor housing. I wrote to them asking for their spec and they replied: "We can advise that the heat management feature in the module will deal with temperatures up to 230F." 230F may be pushing it a bit on a heat soaked RR engine with 90F+ ambient temperatures. In fairness to Powerspark, I know Hubert Kelly in Ireland runs this module with no problems. I've reverted to points and have had no problems since. My view is that since the engine is low revving, electronic ignition is not essential. So I'm in the Alan minority. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 788 Registered: 11-2017 |
FYI The issue with the original Opus is the large power switching transistor which is now very hard to source in the market. I have spent endless hours searching for components about 2 yrs ago to rebuild an original Opus for the challenge, only to find junk from the far east. The original produces a large amount heat by itself and has nowhere (heatsink) to dissipate it. The modern Pertronix is far more efficient in electronic design. No judge will ever open a distributor for originality and leaving one is at this point in history is living on borrowed time. If you want reliability, switch to points. | ||
| Trevor Hodgekinson Frequent User Username: wm20 Post Number: 284 Registered: 11-2006 |
FWIW We ran the 6 cars for 8 years Three of them had points and never gave a second of bother And they started better to boot Two of the EI units would not fire at all while the engine was cranking but fired the instant you let the key go. We never found the reason for this. For me the points worked flawlessly and when I finally get the Bently back together it will have points. AFAIK much like any other kettering system the problems with points are always up the high end of the rev range some where that the car will very rarely ever be We also have to remember the massive difference in ambient temperatures makes a very big difference to the actual temperature under the bonnet. Down here is OZ nothing odd to have a dozen 40+ C days in a row A 40 C day will have the road anything up to 80 C and that makes the ambient air above the road very hot, a situation highly unlikely to happen in Ireland or Scotland . I can remember weeks in summer where I could not use either stand on the motorcycles because the road surface had softened to the point the stands sunk strait through so we had to park on the concrete footpath or lean then against a post Up until the 90's the biggest problem we had with UK cars down here ( & motorcycles to a lesser extent ) was overheating , even when they were fitted with the bigger Aust models radiators | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 786 Registered: 10-2008 |
Trevor, I think you have summed up why electronic gives little trouble in the Uk, where a really hot day is 30c and the average is rather lower. The advantage of electronic is that it overcomes timing scatter on worn distributors and gives smoother running .This would probably not be noticed on a 6 or 8 cylinder engine. Also it is easier than adjusting twin points on Earlier cars. Mark | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 506 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... And on the day it was 15-18deg C Wind chill dropped the temp even more,... Graham. | ||
| Trevor Hodgekinson Frequent User Username: wm20 Post Number: 285 Registered: 11-2006 |
Way back in the 60's I remember making a pointless distributor as a project out of one of the electronics magazines Dead simple being it was nothing more than a plate with 6 slots ( 6 cylinder engine ) cut into it , a IR emitter on one side & a pick up on the other than went to a couple of switching transistors . While it worked fultlessly and removed the bi- monthly points adjustments it made zero difference to the power or performance of the engine in my EK holden OTOH the Hall effect trigger on the Victa mower made a massive difference as it did on the BSA bantam On the shadows the only real difference apart from starting was the points distributor engines could be made to idle a lot slower than the electronic ignitions but again if they were a daily use then continually adjusting the point would be a PIA job as you need to virtually climb into the engine bay to get good access to the dizzy | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 508 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... 10/06/22 Well Camilla is all fixed. New Dizzy, ignition module, coil to match, new dizzy cap and rotor button. Re tuned and tested. And the same afternoon, my Mother passed away. She had pancreatic cancer. My sister and I were with her looking after her through till the end. Graham. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3292 Registered: 06-2009 |
Graham, I am very happy for your repair triumph with Camilla. Please accept my deepest sympathy on the loss of your mother. Take comfort in the fact that you and your sister were able to be her faithful children and caregivers until the end. Brian | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 382 Registered: 07-2018 |
Graham, what ignition module did you go with ? I am not sorry to hear about you Mother passing, that may sound cruel, but it isn't, death can be a revelation when people are suffering and their quality of life isn't really there anymore _ it isn't life anymore, it's an existence. It has to be looked at in another way, and after talking to a Minister of my faith, he said "God is not here to make people suffer" I have a friend, just recently, where her husband passed away suddenly from an aggressive lymphoma cancer, and at the point of his passing, she felt this incredible joy and happiness from the release of his body. She told me "we don't end, we go on". While some may find this hard to accept, it gives me great comfort, and I hope it does you as well. My life is just about at it's end, I am finding it increasingly difficult to keep dialyzing myself, I can't get enough out of my life using a machine as a substitute for my kidneys, I feel like Frankenstein's monster, and with all the screw ups and this one abusive Doctor that delayed my Kidney transplant for a year, I have pretty much lost all faith in these people that were supposed to help me. If my kidney transplant does not take, I don't intend to continue on a machine. I hope you can take comfort in what I said, it wasn't so much the Cancer your Mother had to deal with, it was the uncertainty of it all, expecting to be cured, getting through another day, the burden of being so very sick and how it was affecting others... And now that's gone, she has been released and there is joy and happiness again. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3293 Registered: 06-2009 |
Jeff, To be clear, I am very largely "on the same page" as you are with regard to life having to do with the quality thereof, rather than the quantity thereof. I lost my own mother last year after a more than 10-year battle (and accompanying "long goodbye") with Alzheimer's Disease. Note well that my expression of sympathy was in reference to the feeling of loss that most often accompanies the death of a loved one. That there is very often a huge sense of relief, and a justified one, at the same time, and for the reasons you've articulate and others, is a separate matter and one about which those having that sense of relief should feel not one iota of guilt. Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4097 Registered: 04-2003 |
At times like this, some advice from my Welsh-born grandfather that I have never forgotten and which has been a consolation for me each time one of my family passes: The Welsh cry when a baby is born because it is entering an imperfect world for their life on Earth. The Welsh rejoice when someone dies because they are going to a better place for eternity. If you have experienced a traditional Welsh funeral celebration at the end of a service, you will know what I am referring to especially when the singing starts after a few drinks are consumed.  | ||
| Trevor Hodgekinson Frequent User Username: wm20 Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2006 |
People find it difficult to understand that we are just another animal on this planet so we are born, reproduce ( some times ) then die . As to quality of a life that is really dependent upon the actual persons perspective. Some are over joyed to wake up every morning othere feel if they serve no purpose they should not be here and that is a personal choice , not one that should be imposed . In the past 5 years I have been to the funerals of 10 fellow motorcycle club members ( we are all getting on ) and all of these people could have lived longer if they wanted to but took a shorter life of higher quality to a longer lingering death. TO the point that 3 refused to have pacemakers fitted because it would restrict the things they do like riding magneto powered motorcycles, electric welding etc. Australia's richest man decided to allow himself to die rather than do a Rupet Murdoch & become a bitter old man totally depedent upon modern medacine to remain breathing. And Kerri Packer had more than enough money to build his own hospice & fill it with highly qualified staff without making the slightest dent into his kids inheritances. Once the final offspring are independent then our evolutionary need to be alive is over. Livestock farmers seem to have no problems understanding this but city livers seem to anguish over it to the extent it ruins what is left of their own life or propels them into an existance of gradual death rather than a life. No one like to see a parent , child or close friend die, but they do and that has to be accepted without question or guilt . I had to watch my mother very slowly die from her toes till eventually her heart gave out It took 15 years and in those 15 years the only time I saw her smile was when euthanasia was made legal in the Northern Territory & we were working out how to get her there . Emotionally it destroyed me . A friend who is a vet told me if she allowed an animal in my mothers situation to linger on she would be prosecuted & derigestered. For the final 10 years she laid on a bed unable to move in a room all by herself. If a nurse turned off her radio then she was in a white room, by herself with no external stimulation That is a banned method of torture for prisoners. But considered a humane treatment of an old woman . For the final 4 years she was fully catherised & fed via a tube because she could no longer swallow SO I for one was happy for her to finally die as during this whole time her brain was sharp as a tack. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4098 Registered: 04-2003 |
My father spent 8.5 years in a old age high level care facility after suffering a major stroke that left him totally incapacitated to the point he could not even wipe his nose or feed himself. Ever the stoic, he never complained or caused problems however he rarely spoke let alone hold a conversation with our family members who regularly visited him, wheeled him around the grounds in a wheel chair and generally tried to take his mind off his situation. I used to lift him in and out of my car on the few occasions he left the aged care centre for important family events much to his angst which showed in his eyes but never a word would be spoken except on one occasion when he said "I now know there is a fate worse than death" as I lifted him back into my car after a family get-together to take him back to his high level care centre. I now have an Advanced Care Directive in place should I be in a similar position in the future to avoid enduring a similar fate. For this reason, I have refused having a heart ablation and full-time pacemaker as I have permanent arrhythmia which has not responded to the usual treatments. Trevor, my father had the same experience as your mother but, mercifully, for half the time of your mother's experience. And yes, I followed the Welsh tradition after his funeral listening to his collection of Welsh choir recordings but no singing due to my failure to inherit the ability to sing passed on to other family members instead. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 789 Registered: 10-2008 |
I went through a similar situation with my mother who was in a care home with Vascular dementia and rarely recognised me or my family. The UK govt will not give choice,but fortunately Switzerland which is not too far does. I am from a Farming background and work predominently in agriculture,and would not let an animal suffer, why do we ? | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 509 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Tomorrow I got get Camilla. Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 383 Registered: 07-2018 |
Mark, because the government sticks its nose in places where it's not needed or wanted. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 384 Registered: 07-2018 |
Graham, this thread has certainly been side tracked a bit, but that's OK. I'll post my question again, maybe you don't know yet. I would like to know what ignition module they used in the distributor ? | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 510 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,..... Jeff, I'll let you know later today after I have collected her. I was told it would be a Bosch but I'll have more info later. Graham. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 511 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Ok, I have Camilla back. She has a whole new distributor.  New coil to match.  They have a higher output for a stronger spark and I think the exhaust note has gotten a little deeper and throatier,... The timing was adjusted to 13deg BTDC Camilla did'nt like 10deg, and Tony also adjusted the fast idle up a bit, also took some slack out of the choke. She runs sweet. Not only did the ignition module fail but the springs and ballast came apart inside. Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 385 Registered: 07-2018 |
Looks like a nice unit, does it have mechanical or electronic advance weights ? Is there a vacuum advance ? | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 512 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Yes it has a vacuum advance. Graham. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 513 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.....  Graham. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 514 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y92QXy3LV_w Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 386 Registered: 07-2018 |
Ha Ha... You need to send a strongly worded letter to RR about that shotty distributor. Are you not the least bit curious to see what failed, aren't you going to take it apart _ sounds like one or more of the return springs have broken and what you're hearing are the advanced weights rattling around, as well as the broken spring(s). | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 515 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Oh yeah, I'll take it apart to see what falls out,... Graham. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2538 Registered: 09-2004 |
(You need to send a strongly worded letter to RR about that shotty distributor.) Been got at sometime in its past, not the Lucas Opus factory fitted original type.  Seems the aftermarket type can give up with total failure! F.T.P!!!!! | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 390 Registered: 07-2018 |
I was just being a smart ass.  And yes, anything can fail, and does. | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 516 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Pulled the dizzy apart,....       Vacuum still works perfect. Ballast just rattling around loose,.... Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 391 Registered: 07-2018 |
Did you find the weights just lying in there like that, where are the springs ? Missing a guess, maybe they broke, probably the pieces are missing ? | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 517 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,.... Thats how it was. I'd say it was pulled apart at the place it was sent to and not put back right. I was told the springs were broken. I got Camilla back with a new dizzy with a higher output module and coil to match. It has made a big difference to her first start of the day when dead cold and the exhaust note has changed as she now has a deeper throatier rumble. Graham. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 392 Registered: 07-2018 |
Thanks for answering my incessant questions.  | ||
| Graham Phillips Frequent User Username: playtime Post Number: 518 Registered: 03-2019 |
G'day everyone,... No worries mate! ;) Graham. | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2009 |
A deeper, throatier rumble suggests retarded ignition???? Alan D. |
