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Ben Curtis
New User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 04:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What would cause 4 bent and 1 broken pushrods?
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 05:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cylinders full of water or petrol or anything not gas.
Sticking valves.
Over revving suddenly.
Overheating so the valves stuck.
Dodgy tappets.
Oil pressure relief valve stuck closed. (not come across that ever, but in theory maybe)

Tell us more!
Did it happen while driving?
Just bought the car?
Car been sitting for many many years?
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Ben Curtis
New User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 06:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Its a sorry tale...

Bought the car with a poorly engine, in bits, heads off, had been overheating, owner drew stumps as the bill was running away, disposed of via Westminster Autos, I bought it.

Bought a used engine which turned out to be scrap.

Bought a spares car, pulled the engine out and started to strip it last night for a re-fresh.

Found the bent rods. Don't know much about the history. I got the right hand head off, no witness marks on valves or pistons, no broken rockers, all looks ok at first glance, except the push rods.
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Ben Curtis
New User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 07:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

On the plus side, I think I have enough parts to build one good engine.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1606
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 08:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ouch :-(

Are all the valves free?
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 589
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben your going to have us all in tears, how can one man be so unfortunate, apart from the engines being the way they are what is the rest of the cars like, I wish you well Ben in what seems to me like a mammoth undertaking.

Richard.
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Ben Curtis
New User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not sure about the valve being free yet.

The car is a 74 Shadow, in vermillion with chocolate brown leather, its really lovely and in fine condition. I paid a very fair price knowing full well the dramas that lay ahead.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1346
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben

On the bright side, you now have a spares car from which you will be able to recoup your money, from the sale of spare parts from it.

Please keep us informed as to your progress.

Geoff
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 10 August, 2016 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Also, since you are a new user to this forum you may not be aware that we are blessed with someone who can fabricate specialist tools, should you need them. Check out this link:

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/31/21163.html?1467426441

Geoff
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ross kowalski
Frequent User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,

You should have enough parts to make an engine. On the plus side, the engine you make will be a known quantity, assuming you do a full rebuild.

The peace of mind will be worth the wrenching you have to do up front. Also reseal the front of the trans while it is exposed.

Best,
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 06:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

most likely is excess rpm.

to check push rods roll on flat surface.
SLIGHTLY bent push rods can be straightened.

an advantage of push rod engines is that the valves are stronger than the push rod so in the advent of contact hopefully the rod bends thus making repair easier and cheaper.

note that in my humble experience of 50 years mucking about with engines. bent push rods are quite rare.

give the oil galleries a good clean out. remove gallery plugs.
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ross kowalski
Frequent User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 64
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

On the engine with the bent push rods, because you don't know what happened I would look really closely at everything. Reconditioning an engine is actually the clean easy part. If I were doing it I wouldn't pull the cylinders.

Come to think of it, how about this, the engine sat for a long time not running the lifters drained down someone tried to start it, and when it finally fired (probably with ether) they immediately reved it whereupon the lifters that hadn't loosened up were running with all kinds of clearance and bent the pushrods.

What was the history of the spares car?
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1607
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 03:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

35 year old liner seals?

Is it worth doing all the rest of the work to end up with an engine with weeping tell tales?

Now, while it is apart, is the time to do it.

Especially as the engines history is suspect.
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 590
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 05:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben if you are going to do a rebuild it might be worth trying to revive the original engine with the best parts of the other two. (just thinking)

Richard.
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Thursday, 11 August, 2016 - 07:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks all.

Reviving the original engine might be tough - its only got 4 pistons....god knows where it all went wrong, long before my time.

Does anyone know the dimensions of the tool to pull the liners? I can find the lumps of metal at work.
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Kelly Opfar
Prolific User
Username: kelly_opfar

Post Number: 102
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, 12 August, 2016 - 04:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ben,
here is a link on this forum where I showed the tool I made for my engine, but I had removed the studs first:

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/19388.html?1457599232

As I mentioned in your post on RollsRoyceForums.com, I strongly suggest that you do not remove the studs.

With the studs left in place, the dimensions for the tube have to change a bit. The maximum O.D. has to be 5.2" (132mmm) or less to clear the studs and the minimum I.D. is 4.8" (122mm) to allow the liner to come through. That will leave a .200 (5mm) wall thickness, which is adequate.
The drawing of the bottom plate will be correct no matter what.

Here is a heavier duty one that I just built for someone else. It has a much thicker wall and therefore must have reliefs cut out to clear the studs. I made the top and bottom plates much thicker because I could and I included a roller thrust bearing. The threaded shaft is 5/8"-18. Most of what I make is made from stainless, but this is made from carbon steel so I painted it.

liner puller 1

liner puller 2

liner puller 3
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Saturday, 13 August, 2016 - 05:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you. That is all really useful. I don't really want to pull the liners out, however, I also don't want overheating issues later.

I'm not clear on how effectively I can clean out the block without drawing the liners.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1608
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, 13 August, 2016 - 06:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Ben, it's not just cleaning g out the waterways to think about.

The liners also have rubber type seals. They will almost certainly be weeping or will when you put it back together.

It will mean extra work but at least you can ensure everything at the bottom end is clean and will last while you are there :-)
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 07:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'm in the UK. If I decided to find a garage to pull the liners, clean out the block and refit, who could I use? Someone that's done it before?
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1105
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 07:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

engine number should match vin number
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 341
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 07:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul Yorke.
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Jeff Young
Prolific User
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 267
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 07:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'd also recommend Paul.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1351
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 08:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul Yorke for sure.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2147
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 08:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Another vote for Paul from me - this is a job where an experienced professional can save you a lot of time and money if you do not have a well-equipped workshop and the time to find solutions to the inevitable problems that will arise removing and replacing the engine components.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 1609
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 14 August, 2016 - 09:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cheers guys!

Ben, where are you in the UK?

With three engines to choose from, you should be able to get at least one good one.

Practice on the worst one, and see how you get on?

Happy to help out though. :-)
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gordon le feuvre
Prolific User
Username: triumph

Post Number: 135
Registered: 7-2012
Posted on Monday, 15 August, 2016 - 01:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Have only ever come across one engine with bent valves. Although it was a late(96) spirit with only 10k miles, the valves had seized in guides. I was told it was because later engines used sintered iron guides instead of phosphor bronze. My point is the owner had not be well and used to just move car out of garage and "run up" engine, he thought this would be enough having long term RR ownership. Could engine have been laying around and then started.? had similar problems with late '70'sjaguar XK engines. Paul YOrke knows his stuff, having converted with him and purchased parts and I have been working on Shadow's since 1966!
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 593
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 15 August, 2016 - 08:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul Yorke is good, makes nice coffee and croissants.

Richard.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 758
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 15 August, 2016 - 02:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I also support Paul Yorke as being honest and knowledgeable.

Omar
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Ben Curtis
Experienced User
Username: burgundyben

Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2015
Posted on Saturday, 20 August, 2016 - 07:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The cause of the bent push rods was stuck valves. I have a good rebuilt left hand head. I took the right hand head off and found 3 stuck valves, they came out no bother. So looks like I have a pair of heads.
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Bob Reynolds
Grand Master
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 415
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Saturday, 20 August, 2016 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well two heads are better than one.

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