| Author | Message | ||
     Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2016 |
Hello dear People in this Forum. A friend of mine and me got the a Job to overhaul a SC 3 Engine, more about this later... So we dismanteled the whole engine, had everything done on the Block and Heads and reassembled the Engine. After approx 30 min of running, there was Oil at the back of the Engine near the Distributor. We searched for the leak and found it between the Head and Block in the middle of the Engine wehre the Push-Rods are (on both Banks).  We are now wondering, where the Problem is: - new Type Head Gasket with not enough Torque on the Bolts? - Face of the Crankcase? - ? Any suggestions? Regards Patrick | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Prolific User Username: wraithman Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2017 |
Was the deck of the block checked for flatness? Were the liners pulled and new O rings installed? When or if the liners were re-installed did they stand proud off the block? Did you refer to the workshop manual or by the seat of your pants? If you did the later you're in trouble. | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Prolific User Username: wraithman Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2017 |
watch these vids. These techs are the best ones out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37vPjmpGP0Y Several parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8pGuXzhf3o | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2016 |
The Deck was checked, the liners where honed (but not removed) and the "stand proud" checked, everything was done and checked as described in the workshop manual... | ||
| Trevor Pickering Prolific User Username: commander1 Post Number: 106 Registered: 6-2012 |
Looks like a possible head gasket problem. What torque setting did you use for the head fixings? Why did you not replace the liner seals at the time? There should be a .002" nip(upstand)on the liners when you fit the gaskets and head. Did you use a light coating of Wellseal on the head gaskets as well? Hope this helps | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2016 |
We used the values in the workshup manual (40lb.ft). I'm not sure if this is the correct value for the "new" Type of head gasket? We didn't use wellseal (but is just ordered some)... We where talking about replacing the Liner seals, my collegue and the the customer where against replacing, i was for replacing so it was 2:1 against... The upstand of the liners was measured on all liners ans is correct... | ||
| Trevor Pickering Prolific User Username: commander1 Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2012 |
Yes that torque setting is correct. If you remove the heads and use some Wellseal it should solve your problem. Good luck Trevor | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Prolific User Username: wraithman Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2017 |
Use Wellseal and NEW headgaskets naturally. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1360 Registered: 2-2013 |
Patrick I would have definitely removed the liners and replaced the liner orings/seals even if the engine displayed minimal corrosion. Liner removal can result in cracking the aluminum block if the block is not heated correctly and the original RR tool for extracting the liners is useless for these old engines especially if they are corroded. Kelly on this forum in Utah makes an excellent tool for the job but DONT remove the studs as well unless you want big disaster. I assume you definitely had the cylinder heads machined dead flat and checked the cylinder head carefully for corrosion. What a horror to have a nasty oil leak after full engine overhaul! | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Prolific User Username: wraithman Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2017 |
You have to be very sure if you even need the head shaved. If too much is removed on a Shadow head it can spell disaster and is indicated in the workshop manual. "Check before you assume". I definitely would have measured the liners for roundness and pulled the liners. | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2016 |
We checked the liners before honing... we also cheked after honing... We had new pistons made to our specification (diameter)... The Heads where measured for flatness and warp... The decision to not pull the liners was made with the customer and the engine workshop who did the mechanical work (honing, Valve Seats,...). Why should'nt the studs be removed??? | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Grand Master Username: wraithman Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2017 |
FYI making new pistons was not a good choice...the reason. the RR wrist pins are off center to minimize piston slap. Watch this video. Ronnie is one of our esteemed technical advisors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8pGuXzhf3o | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2016 |
we had the pistons made with the pins off center as the original pistons... | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Grand Master Username: wraithman Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2017 |
Good move. Many are not aware of this. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2122 Registered: 9-2004 |
A little time to put my engineers hat on, has the oil pressure been tested first, have known relief valves to be at fault! | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2016 |
The engine didn't have oil pressure when we received it... more about this, when the engine is running... I will post the whole story then... now the oil pressure is correct... | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1369 Registered: 2-2013 |
Patrick the reason the studs should not be removed is buried deep in past posts on the forum. Private message Kelly O. of Utah USA and he will enlighten you. | ||
| Trevor Pickering Prolific User Username: commander1 Post Number: 108 Registered: 6-2012 |
Sounds like the lack of oil pressure could be caused by the bronze drive gear that is driven from the crank being worn. | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2016 |
just a little pre information about the lacking oil pressure... Reason in the pictures attached...   | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2125 Registered: 9-2004 |
Did the distributor seize up or was the lack of oil with the thrust washer causing a total jamming of the cam? Or the tell tell ropy gasket fitment on cover plate. | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2016 |
Nothin of the above... The engine has been overhauled by a specialist. But they didn't fix the plugs in the oil gallerys the right way... so the plugs where pushed out and landed near the distributor drive... > oil Gallerys open > not a lot of oil-pressure.... And that was just the beginning  | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2126 Registered: 9-2004 |
So how did the oil travel up where the push rods are on both banks when the engine was run with no oil pressure. | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2016 |
The Problem with the Oil is after the second overhaul of the Engine... We received the Engine running without Oil-Pressure and overhauled everything... after starting (after the overhaul) there was the oil-leak... | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2128 Registered: 9-2004 |
So back to my first posting, what oil pressure is showing when leak occurs? | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2016 |
The actual oil-pressures are (engine warm): @ 550rpm 2.35bar @ 1000rpm 2.60bar @ 1500rpm 2.80bar @ 3000rpm 3.10bar (max. Oil-pressure) | ||
| Patrick Hunziker Experienced User Username: pahu Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2016 |
Today i tried to order new Head Gaskets... FS and Introcar > not available... This is the answer to my Enquiry from FS: In our opinion there is a problem with the current stock of cylinder head gaskets (both genuine and aftermarket – both of which are made by the same company) which causes some of the gaskets to leak immediately after they are fitted. Bentley Motors are not admitting there is a problem and are not offering us any warranty so we have withdrawn them from sale. Our advice, therefore, is that you purchase the two cylinder head gaskets directly from your nearest authorised Bentley dealer. We can supply you with all other parts required to complete the work. We recommend that you establish prior to the purchase what warranty they are offering you on the head gaskets and that you obtain this advice in writing. If you do purchase the gaskets then we always use Wellseal on the gaskets with all in-house engine rebuilds and advise that, once they are fitted, you seal the engine in order to check for leaks prior to fitting all of the remaining ancillary components. So the Oil Leak probably is caused by the defect Head Gasket... | ||
| Mark Luft Prolific User Username: bentleyman1993 Post Number: 263 Registered: 10-2016 |
Well THAT sucks!! | ||
| David Balfour Prolific User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 169 Registered: 2-2009 |
Yes it does suck, and it explains the consistent leak on both banks. Of course this would not have happened in the old days because Rolls-Royce and Bentley's were being assembled with the very same gaskets as supplied as spare parts. The company would have been the first to know and would have been able to resolve the issue before it filtered through to dealers. Bentley, as part of the VW Group, I would have thought would be working hard to restore public faith in its organisation given what has occurred over the past few years. An ethical and open appropriate response from them might have been a real good idea right now, in my opinion. | ||
| Richard Greene Prolific User Username: benzjag Post Number: 134 Registered: 12-2012 |
I bought a Bentley Arnage last year. Bentley Motors are absolutely a pain in the axx. They offer absolutely no support. You MUST go the dealer for everything. They act as if they are the only car manufacturer in the world. I'm seriously thinking about selling the car because of a nasty lack of support. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1430 Registered: 2-2013 |
Crikey this is all most nasty. Perhaps greed for profits is the reason for such ungentlemanly behaviour. I cannot and will never lose my love of both Marques. Hmmn next questions are: 1. Am I going to experience the same type of treatment when I need cylinder head gaskets for my Camargue 2. Is it even slightly possible to make a cylinder head gasket? Perhaps Jay Leno and or his team have the answer. I can't imagine its possible to find a parts supplier that stocks cylinder head gaskets for 1930s up Bugatti and Talbot Lago on the shelf. Sometimes I do lament my classic car hobby lifestyle and wish I was collecting bloody seashells instead. Heroin addiction is possibly less severe on the bank balance perhaps. | ||
| David Balfour Prolific User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 173 Registered: 2-2009 |
Hi Vlad, A friend of mine suggested many years ago I take up an interest in collecting postage stamps instead. The day may not be far away when postage stamps are no longer produced. He said this while helping me move a back axle C/W differential, so his pain was real. I didn't feel any of course because I was invested in the activity. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1431 Registered: 2-2013 |
Hello David, you own one of my favourite cars the Silver Cloud II. Closest I ever got to that was a SIII Bentley needing a full restoration RHD from Arizona with two aimed bullet holes straight through the back window. Perhaps somebody was upset. If only our cars could talk! What is a CW differential? | ||
| David Balfour Prolific User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 174 Registered: 2-2009 |
Thank you Vlad. It's one of my favourite cars too. Sorry for the two letter acronyms like CW. - back axle "complete with" differential. I now see I accidentally had a forward slash between C and W which may have made it more cryptic. | ||
| David Balfour Prolific User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 175 Registered: 2-2009 |
Interestingly my car was sold in London in January 1962, but moved to Arizona in 1984, and stayed there for 25 years. A lot of bad things happened to the car while in the custody of the wealthy lady owner, mainly due to dodgy repairers and bills for maintenance that was never carried out. Some of the invoices she was given were simply expensive works of fiction. Both car and owner were repeatedly taken for a ride. I bought the car from her estate. I hope she is happy with the progress I am making from the afterlife. I think her late husband had a Corniche DHC. They had no children apparantly. | ||
| David Balfour Prolific User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2009 |
Wow Richard, I am sorry to hear you have had unpleasant dealings with Bentley. That's what happens when people are involved who don't appreciate the difference between a Bentley Customer and a VW customer. You are buying a lifestyle experience, not just a car with a Bentley. The company should be doing backflips to keep its dealers' customers happy. Perhaps at the Bentley and Rolls end of the market there should be no dealer. Perhaps the manufacturer should be at the coal face themselves. Elon Musk thinks so. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1432 Registered: 2-2013 |
David "expensive works of fiction" Ha ha ha, that my friend is indeed literature. In other word the poor wealthy lady was getting fleeced by a greedy dishonest swine. How predictable. No wonder I never let another mechanic near my cars. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 1433 Registered: 2-2013 |
Richard do you mean a pain in Charlotte or London? Sometimes it can be a disgruntled employee. I would locate the owner of the business and diplomatically but firmly state my grievance. In the event no rectification and sincere apology was swiftly produced I would take my business to the nearest Bentley dealership in another state. You have the ability to do this on the east coast of the USA as your states are relatively close together unlike some Australian states like Western Australia which are massive. You should be receiving top gentlemanly snappy service as it is after all a Bentley. Accept nothing less. To sell your Arnage over this matter would be quite a tragedy. | ||
| felipe heuser Frequent User Username: felipe Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2017 |
Hello…rather than starting new post would someone know if this oil pressure gauge is correct for the SC V8 engine? https://www.ebay.es/itm/222206304331?ul_noapp=true Whilst here, SCIII coil failed last week and to avoid shipping one item from the UK, we have a good parts dealer, therefore with correct specs (please help) would it be safe to purchase locally? | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Grand Master Username: wraithman Post Number: 429 Registered: 11-2017 |
Most test gauges of this type are not car specific. They are general purpose with a wide variety of fittings to accommodate metric or SAE threaded ports. Should work | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2161 Registered: 9-2004 |
The spec is a 12v coil with primary resistance of 3.0-3.4 ohms. Will have to search for the type. | ||
| felipe heuser Frequent User Username: felipe Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2017 |
Many thanks Robert and Patrick…would you recommend another gauge? And is a specific coil brand recommended for these engines? | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 2162 Registered: 9-2004 |
I would go for a old original Lucas sports coil or Lucas standard coil providing the primary is in spec. |
