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Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 80.225.192.13
Posted on Monday, 08 December, 2003 - 03:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have spent some considerable time in the archives researching the cooling system, camshafts, spring drive and crankshaft dampers on the post war six cylinder 4.25/4.5 ltr engines.Most of the detail in respect of the cylinder blocks and cooling has already been printed in the RREC bulletin. Hopefully the later history/problems on the camshafts, damper and spring drives will follow, as this detail has never yet been published.

I am currently trying to research how many cars are actually now in service with different positioned radiator filler caps. Very early cars had the filler caps positioned on the TOP of the radiator header tank. Later cars, at least from the introduction of the R type had SIDE mounted filling caps. That is, the fillers are positioned on the sloped section of the header tank.

Most of the early cars have now been fitted with the B7 radiator, but certainly some have retained a top cap filling position. In fact I deliberatly had my own R type radiator rebuilt with a top filler some 15 years ago.

I am asking if any owner of a post war 4.25 or 4.5 ltr, fitted in any chassis, Bentley or R-R, would be prepared to e-mail me with the chassis number, model etc and whether their radiator has a TOP or SIDE filler cap position.In addition, I would like to be able to e-mail anyone who may reply, who has a car with a top filler.

I anticipate I may not be able to reply to everyone but I will post the results on this web site, moderator agreeing of course.

Thank you for any assistance

Norman Geeson
Peterborough
England}}
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Richard Treacy
Prolific User
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 80
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 08 December, 2003 - 05:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Norman,

My 1954 B174UM R-Type and Gerard's 1954 SNF99 Silver Dawn both have the side mounted caps.

I fitted a new core to B174UM (the old one split at the bottom due to a heavy Canberra winter) last month (modern type from South Australia, DFX 585x470x52, 14 FPI, STD-974, 4 row, 312 fins, 146 tubes, 596.8mm tube length) in Canberra, Australia on my visit: hang the authenticity as the new type is far superior and the original core pattern is still available and manufactured in New Zealand. I have the full core spec and dimensions if you need them.

What's the nuance ? 700,000km and all is well, and always has been with the side mounted cap !!

Regards,

Richard.

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Bill Coburn
Prolific User
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 83
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 08 December, 2003 - 08:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes I am intrigued. I have only ever seen one top filler and that on a very early 'A' series Dawn. I assume the side filler gave a breathing space to the coolant before it started nudging the steam valve.
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Bill Vatter
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.20.186.189
Posted on Monday, 08 December, 2003 - 13:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Norman/Bill, here are three top caps for you:

My car (WGC66) has top cap. Very original car apparently always well maintained about 140K documented miles total. I do not think radiator has been changed. Once I had to solder the bottom water outlet where the origninal solder had failed. Never any other cooling problems. I only add water when I change coolant each spring. I think the fill level is semi-automatic: You fill all the way up and the car spits out what it doesn't want through the pipe. After awhile you learn what that level is, and the car doesn't spit any more.

Also have a spare top-cap radiator from WFC10 a deceased car. I have no idea if this is original or not. Lots of parts from that car were not original.

Ann Rhea's Cooper bodied car WVA62 which I service from time to time also top cap.

Incidentally, Ann's car currently for sale. Interesting pre-war Mulliner body never mounted on Wraith for which it was built. After the war Cooper fitted it to WVA 62 with some different front wings to make up the difference in wheelbase. Picture The Elegance Continues p.261 labeled Vincent's coachwork, but that's not correct.
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Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 80.225.191.80
Posted on Saturday, 13 December, 2003 - 10:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know that R-R experienced some influx of air into the cooling systems on Military installations. The air was drawn in when turbulence occurred in the top tank.

It has occurred to me that the side mounted filler prevents one filling the
system as high / full as is possible with the top caps. In fact on a side
filler it is only just possible on some cars to cover the top hose, whilst
on others the level reaches about half way up the hose.

It is probable that on some of these cars when inclines are climbed and the
coolant is still cold, that air could be drawn into the system. Still
probable is the fact that during periods of hard acceleration /cornering and
water turbulence, air could also enter the system.

Of course, it also goes without saying, that any coolant loss from any engine with a side filler will very quickly allow air to enter the radiator matrix. Considering that the instructions detail the owner to only fill to within one inch of the filler aperture,this obviously leaves little margin for coolant loss.

I know from archive research that the pumps are inclined to boil at the eye
of the rotor and the influx of air will only make matters worse.

Ther are still a lot of top filling radiators around, both on early cars and later cars up to early 1955, the later ones have obviously been altered as the radiators have been rebuilt. My own R type being one example.

Just an interesting thought, I thought I would do some research!

Regards

Norman
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Alex Lynch
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.54.32.109
Posted on Wednesday, 17 December, 2003 - 16:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Norman - My 1950 MKV1 B111 JN Standard Steel Saloon has the cap mounted on the top and is the original top tank as I have all the original workshop sheets from Kellow Falkiner the Melbourne Agents up untill the late 60's, with no mention of any core replacement which was not carried out untill the vehicle was in my ownership.
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Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 80.225.186.32
Posted on Thursday, 18 December, 2003 - 11:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the response so far Guys. Can I ask anyone with information to e-mail me on cc6@lineone.net so that I can keep the messages in a dedicated folder.

Many Thanks

Norman
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rich cwik
New User
Username: lotusrich

Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 13 April, 2005 - 04:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mine is chassis B197UL, a 1953-54 R-Type, and has a side fill cap.

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