| Author | Message | ||
     Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1477 Registered: 5-2015 |
This is a tall order. the Uk uses 45 giga watts of power 10 million cars will need an extra 40 giga watts or the circuit breakers pop and out go the lights. At the moment there are 25 million cars plus 10 million trucks buses coaches and vans. They use more fossil fuels and hence they will need more watts. A big truck can be as much 6 mpg. So the commercial side is going to use 3 times the amount of watts. exact figures are difficult to work out but I recon that 250 giga watts is going to be needed. Thats a lot of money investment in power stations and associated infrastructure. The world has more fossil fuels available than ever before at about 50 bucks a barrel. A forgotten thing in all this is traffic congestion, London is now undrivable and mates who still live in London are on mopeds and push bikes or foot. public transport is overcrowded. I will be 88 in 2040 so most of this will be a passing interest while I dribble in a arm chair at home. Its 12.30pm here in Dorset and as I write this can hear a car go past about once every 2 mins which is light traffic. | ||
| Mark Luft Frequent User Username: bentleyman1993 Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2016 |
Robert, I'm sure by 2040 you yourself will be part of the electric movement.  | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1478 Registered: 5-2015 |
I already am, and have a 24v scooter with 4 wheels. 4mph. I am sold on electric cars but I feel at present the technology and infrastructure isnt far enough advanced. the original electric grid took about 10 years to build so the that bit is do able but we need lots of new power stations and the wedge. The actual electric car is for people like me who dont go far and have a drive way and easy access to electrickery is fine, except the money side is still questionable. I am in the process on getting a motor bike and checked out the electric option and unfortunately all two wheeled stuff in the UK is 30 mph max stuff at twice the price. I want easy 75 mph 60 mpg cruising so its down to a petrol 650cc bike. Which used is less than a 3rd of the money. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1440 Registered: 9-2004 |
I use the electric Leaf for all the short trips. The short trips are not good for the internal combustion engine, petrol or diesel. The car is governed at 100mph but that sure uses the range up quick. Put a solar array when I bought my first Leaf in 2011 with eco 7 for charging on rainy or clouded days. Am having a Tesla power wall with more panels, this will give me off grid capabilities. And get paid for the electric used on the original installation. The C6 when tested for emissions is so clean it does not register. This is the PSA 3.0L HDI engine. I hope that the old cars are still able to get fuel for the young enthusiasts in the future. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1479 Registered: 5-2015 |
petrol was a by product of oil refining, so I think petrol will round for a long time yet. diesel fuel will still be required as well. There more to oil than just petrol or diesel. I dont go far enough in general to worry about battery range and I foresee that places I do go to will have battery charging anyway and even 30 mins charging will help. 10 miles to the shops return stick it on charge while the cars being unloaded then after a couple of hours off to the New Forest Those HDI engines from PSA are good engines. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1624 Registered: 4-2016 |
Gents, Here is Australia some of our road trains & heavy haulage vehicles can use .9L - 1.5L for every 1km travelled. I don't know what that would be in L/110k or MPG. But it is frightening. Lets go back to the start of the last century. Electric vehicles were ALL the rage. They were very popular & helped make Mr Hertz (rental truck fame) & Mr Exide (battery manufacturer) very rich indeed. It was only the limited capacity, vehicle range & sheer size of the batteries at the time that made them fail. Come forward 120 years and here we have super small, high capacity long range batteries. A fantastic future for these vehicles indeed. We already have hybrid units in trucks & buses where I work at Volvo, but full electric will be some way off due to the sheer loads & weights we carry in this modern age of a full on heavy vehicle. Parcel delivery vans and smaller commercial vehicles are now all going full electric, as they are of much smaller carrying capacity. I have driven one of these Detroit Electric Buggies and it was amazing. I love that you sit in the back, control it with a tiller and that someone can sit in front of you!!!!   The below pic from pre WWI looks amazingly like what we see today.   | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1480 Registered: 5-2015 |
Full circle. Looks like the infernal combustion engine is a mere 110 year diversion The 2 photos show that very well as intended by Pat L | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1627 Registered: 4-2016 |
Sure is full circle Robert. I encourage anyone to go try a high performance full electric car. 100% torque almost immediately is amazing to behold. It's amazing how far we have come in such a short time with battery tech. Most is just in the last 10 years. Battery chargers: From this.  To this  Jump start batteries: From this  To this  To this pocket size truck jump starter.  I still remember the first time I was demonstrated the pocket size battery for jump starting trucks. I was totally sceptical of its operation. It not only jump started it once, but twice. This was a 15 litre Cummins Signature diesel. I was stunned. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1482 Registered: 5-2015 |
Pat R not Pat L ---- sorry. I was also stunned by these little pocket sized jump starters. Plus it will run phones etc. Ideal camping accessory. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1443 Registered: 9-2004 |
I carry one in the Leaf as a standby for jump starting, if the 12V battery fails then the car is unable to power up the electrics. No go! Flat bed then needed. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1629 Registered: 4-2016 |
That's a great idea Robert. My wife is after a battery back up for her phone, why not have one that can jump start a car as well. Pretty amazing. Even though I have actually seen these work, I am still stunned at what it did for a truck that runs 3 x N70Z in parallel to do the job. Great idea Patrick L. As you said, no power no go, it's not like you can clutch it!! Here are some differences in battery packs and electric motors from pre WWI to now. The Detroit electric battery array.  And the motor drive train   A modern Tesla integrated battery array and motor assembly. 1/4 of the weight, 20 times the power & torque. Amazing how the whole floor is the batteries.  | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1484 Registered: 5-2015 |
My wife has a power stick in her bag. The mini jump start things are small enough for a motor bike as well. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1632 Registered: 4-2016 |
We have just been shopping and bought one Robert. Thanks for the idea. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1485 Registered: 5-2015 |
Thank you for the compliment. I have seen a 2 wheeled scooter where the floor boards are the battery with no actual frame. The motor and suspension etc are bolted to the battery. Also on Ytube are battery light aeroplanes with a 1 hour range. The battery packs can be slid out and quickly replaced with charged ones--- not whilst in the air though. air training schools use them. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1634 Registered: 4-2016 |
Its a whole new world Robert! | ||
| keith pearson Experienced User Username: dud_fivers Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2017 |
I remember that by 2000 , we would all be wearing bacofoil suits- have personal strap-on helicopters aerial walkways hovering cars work only 3 hours a day have free everything Florida would be 1 meter under water (Ted Danson forecast that) S England hotter than S Spain by 2010 Space cities on the Moon etc a New Jerusalem and so on. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1642 Registered: 5-2015 |
I want rocket boots for Xmass | ||
| Jonas TRACHSEL Prolific User Username: jonas_trachsel Post Number: 154 Registered: 2-2005 |
Keith writes: a New Jerusalem. Yep, that's right, read your Bible. And it will be the undisputed, undivided capital of Israel for ever. I fear that once again the Bible will be proved to be spot-on. Sorry, this has nothing to do with electric cars by 2040. JoT} | ||
| keith pearson Experienced User Username: dud_fivers Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2017 |
I left out pie in the sky and Jam Tomorrow | ||
| keith pearson Experienced User Username: dud_fivers Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2017 |
I really would love to have a Detroit or Baker Electric. They are an incredible car . I like the looks . If I could afford one and the space to garage it I'd get one. Also, possible to just go ahead and build a new one from scratch with modern electrics.. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1644 Registered: 5-2015 |
and a flying pig. Jay Leno has a old electric car with tiller steering which drives fine | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 676 Registered: 11-2015 |
Batteries are better than previous batteries, but it will be a while. My pick for a carbon neutral eco fuel is biodiesel. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1797 Registered: 4-2016 |
I like the new Tesla Model X gents.  https://youtu.be/3iWWkVWUxis Don’t know how you would go parking in an underground shopping carpark??? Or like in the pic below, You forget the doors are open AND you ignore all the visual and audio warnings,,  | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1646 Registered: 5-2015 |
Stupid doors. apart from accidents they are bound to give trouble. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1798 Registered: 4-2016 |
Agreed Robert. Gimmicks in the automotive world like this don’t usually last very long before being replaced or modified if the attached car proves to be a hit. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2839 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK - today's question for the cognoscenti......... Where do we put the "Flying B" or "Spirit of Ecstasy"?  https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/tech/2018/03/14/self-driving-electric-flying-car-new-zealand/ . | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 1864 Registered: 4-2016 |
Right on the underside mate for all to see. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 944 Registered: 4-2012 |
David don't be getting one of these, even this forum would struggle helping with repairs. Richard | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 737 Registered: 11-2015 |
Funny, I was just thinking of electric cars this morning. We are in the midsts of a big blizzard storm and power has been out three days and was out 5 days last week. In areas with serious weather EV's would seem a risky move. If worst came to worst for me, I'd just drain fuel from the other cars, and if it really came to worst, the MK1 golf diesel will run on anything. What did the drive during the siege on Sarajevo? Mk1 golf and Skoda diesels running on oil from the gearcases of petrol cars! There are a bunch of YouTube videos of people doing this with their own drones ( not too safe methinks) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 833 Registered: 2-2013 |
Jetsetters electric cars for the outback! What a smasher of an idea. I simply do not have the mathematical skills of Bob to mount any logical argument for or against however it does appear to me that the advocates for have jolly well taken leave of their senses completely as well as putting several carts before the horse. I raise the question: Precisely where are and what are the primary sources of the electricity. Er burning coal? Greens will get you, nuclear? Greens will get you, Hydroelectric Greens will get you, ah I know rotary paddles/generators right around coastal Oz yes Greens will get you! Solar power! Yes perhaps in 1000 years when the aliens arrive with a metal composite 1000 times lighter than aluminium. RH in wheelchair has stated the aliens are quite likely to dine on us just for fun. Wait a minute fission. Yes that's the one. The human race after spending zillions on making fission work produces a black hole and zap no earth! There is this idea that electric cars are thunderbirds go but the question of primary source and its environmental consequences is totally ignored and an assumption that if its electric it must be clean because you just plug it in. Electric cars by 2040!? Dream on dream on teenage queen! | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2843 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vladimir, The answer is a solar photovoltaic battery system such as a Tesla Powerwall 2. I am currently pricing a 15Kw installation to go off-grid and future charging of an EV. https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/powerwall . | ||
| Alex Peterson New User Username: alex_peterson Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2017 |
Vlad, I am1500kmsouth of you firmly connected to the grid in outer suburban Sydney, the energy in the grid at this moment is 16% renewables - Solar, wind & Hydro 9% gas 73% coal refer to: http://reneweconomy.com.au/opennem-widget/ Until last month I was connected to the grid by a single phase on the roof with 4.5kw I have just upgraded to 3 phase connection and 20kw P.V. on the roof.I made this change for financial reasons. I calculate better than 15% ROI. Note in the last 12 months Solar capacity increased by 60% in Australia. . | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2847 Registered: 4-2003 |
Alex, Currently I am restricted to a 15Kw installation as our country electricity supplier has a 15Kw maximum limit for private solar "feed-in" installations. I am looking at installing 2 nominal 20Kw batteries in parallel to maximise feed-in supply as we are only here 50% of the time and close to 100% of our daily output would be available for feed-in during our absence. My long-term objective is to install a second 15Kw set of panels connected to the 2nd battery for charging a future EV to be purchased when a range of 600+ Km can be consistently obtained on a hot day with full air conditioning functioning and at least 1 hour reserve for traffic hold ups due to accidents, road works etc. We commute every fortnight between the Mid-north Coast and Sydney [Sutherland Shire] and trip times can vary between 4 hours and 6 hours depending on time of day and traffic. I have 3 phase at my Sydney residence however I am not looking at installing solar for EV use as my plan is to sell this residence around September and downsize. I may install a 20Kw unit prior to sale if this can be recovered in the selling price. I hope I can match your ROI.  . | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 837 Registered: 2-2013 |
Interesting David. You buy it, try it and if after a number of years like 10 years because that's the warranty period offered you recommend it, I will consider it. I remain highly sceptical that I will be able to run a 76 Cadillac a 77 Camargue and a 82 Spirit off the sun. More likely if our idiot government bans petrol I will be buying a herd of pigs with their butts connected to a gas storage tank to get by. Environmentally I say drop the bomb on all nations whose culture promotes mass breeding of unwanted and financial unsupported kiddies. The solution for global warming is nothing less than a mass genocide that would make Hitler and Stalin vomit. This solution is coming sooner than later. After that happens we should force the Americans to reproduce cars of 1950 to 1976 again. All will be peachy then. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2849 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vladimir, Happy to be a guinea pig - where I stay on the NSW Mid-north Coast approximately 50% of the houses already have solar panels installed and I suspect around 15% have installed Li-ion storage batteries to go off-grid completely and feed-in their surplus capacity to the grid. Pig poo methane generators have a problem with compressing the gas in sufficient quantities for long trips and methane refuelling stations [aka pig pens] are very few and far between. I also understand the raw methane contains volatile contaminants that can cause corrosion problems in engines running on untreated gas. When I did my coal mine underground safety induction, one of the safety demonstrations involved throwing an aluminium drink can into a rusty 44 gallon [205litre] drum filled with an air/methane mixture. This was to reinforce the reason for the absolute ban on taking aluminium drink cans and battery powered watches underground. The resulting explosion was capable of creating "brown underwear" if you were not paying attention. If you want an alternative fuel, I would suggest a solar voltaic set up for electrolysis of water to produce Hydrogen for a car powered by fuel cells as an alternative to storage batteries. Unfortunately Hydrogen production involves considerable risk and equipment classified for Class 1 Division 1 environments as Hydrogen is highly permeable due to its small molecular size and the "Hindenburg" "air" ship is a graphic example of what can happen when Hydrogen, Air and an electric spark are in close proximity. A high pressure specialist and expensive gas compressor is required to compress sufficient hydrogen for a normal driving range [say 500Km] and the storage tanks required on vehicles have space requirements greater than that required by storage batteries in a "conventional" EV. https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage-challenges https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/physical-hydrogen-storage https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage . | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1812 Registered: 9-2004 |
Using the grid due to snow on the panels south facing and west facing.   Using eco 7 to charge the Nissan Leaf Tekna, not fun to drive in the ice snow but traction is good. Merc 4x4 is a good all rounder though.  Powerwall 2 update with firmware for charging from eco 7 is in the final testing phase for rollout soon!! | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 839 Registered: 2-2013 |
David you have me thinking now about the Tesla Power wall 2. Would it be powerful enough to efficiently drive a large split system air conditioner and how much do they cost? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2851 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vladimir, Give me the size of the air conditioning unit and whether it is a conventional or inverter system and I will refer it to the technician I am liaising with here. In my case, I would be looking at a 10Kw 3 phase split system A/C for starters. I will let you know the cost of a 15Kw single phase complete system when I get the quote - I am waiting for a site visit to assess suitability for the larger 3 phase system for EV charging - I am hoping having 3 20Kw batteries being charged in parallel from the roof panels with 3 single phase inverters to provide the 3 phase needed for fast charging is possible. I am still stuck with the problem of only being able to supply feed-in power by a single phase connection to the electricity grid which is not good from a ROI perspective as I expect I will have surplus generation capacity. Perhaps a power cable over the fence to the next-door neighbour might solve the problem....... The cost is still decreasing over time as battery manufacture ramps up and economies of scale come into play. Plus solar panel efficiencies are increasing and again costs are decreasing as well. | ||
| Alex Peterson New User Username: alex_peterson Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2017 |
Come in Robert Noel Redington. I hope all iswell. Alex |
