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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1142
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 03 October, 2016 - 08:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bewaring in mind VW and the up and coming 2020 diesels emission regs, Renault is going to stop making small diesel cars.

Renault say that they cant meet the 2020 regs and the money will be better used in EV or petrol electric hybrids.

The technology is already proven but at a cost, this is where the research money will go ----getting the price down.

I suspect others will follow.

I reckon 3 cylinder 1 litre petrol turbo driving a generator which drives the traction motor direct with excess being used to charge say a 30 mile range battery, so that the stored charge could be used to accelerate fast and or run around town.
Which is atypical hybrid.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 530
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Monday, 03 October, 2016 - 15:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert.
Here in Australia in the truck market in which I work, it's quite amazing how we can get diesel emissions further down in truck engines.

Our current range use SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) to achieve the current Euro 5 spec required in Australia. This is a relatively simple process.
A lot of our opposition use EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) to achieve the same emission standard. This is quite a complex process that also compromises the engine it's self.
However we are also investigating hybrid technology for our trucks & buses.
The weight and size of electric motors for truck & bus applications is quite daunting, but they work quite well.
However the "way" they work in heavy vehicles is very different to light vehicles or cars.

Currently there are 3 versions of electric vehicles.
Plug in electric (Tesla & Nissan Leif) battery driven motors only
Hybrid (Prius) electric motors + petrol engine drive train
And the last one is what you were describing Robert is a:
Range extender. This uses electric motors for drive only, can plug in to charge the batteries, plus a small capacity engine connected only to a generator for charging the batteries while on the move. Thus extending the range of the batteries.

During my training sessions with customers and internal salesman, I constantly pull them up when they call an engine a motor.
Eg: "this Volvo has a 16 litre 600hp motor"
In this modern age of many drive trains we need to remember that an engine burns fuel to produce power & torque
A motor converts electricity into power & torque.

This tech (which I'm sure most of you already know is not new, as they were driving plug in electric cars before WWI) has invented a new automotive term:
"Range anxiety"
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 05:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

range anxiety is familiar to me on my disabled scooter I use LED push bike lamps and AA bateries for night use. The version of my scooter with lights is an extra 300 which I though was a lot more than 2 quid from pound land.
With normal cars I just drive until the low fuel light comes on and do a pit stop because in the UK theres always petrol within 5 miles ( at night be careful though). The both the Shadow and the Jeep have a 20 mile buffer, I have never actually tried them.

I also dislike the way motor is oft used. I pefer engines for pistons etc.

Big diesels are easier to control emissions, the small typical passenger car engine thats difficult. As VW found out.

The leaf is a good EV car and is very quiet. My nieghbour has one.
But I still prefer a little petrol engine being available for the longer journey.

1910 Mercedes electric car had 4 motors in the wheel hubs and was 4 wheel drive.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 534
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 06:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A very interesting topic that's for sure Robert.
A certain Mr Hertz made his fortune renting electric delivery trucks in New York pre WWI.
Now we have Hertz depots by the thousands world wide.

I've driven a couple of EV's and they are amazing. 100% torque delivery in an instant is pretty sweet.
Some of the early pre WWI EV's are quite amazing.
I love the tall buggy type with large glass windows where the driver sits in the rear corner and steers with a tiller or a vertical wheel assembly and the passengers sit in front of the driver facing him.
I wonder if the ladies large hats ever got in the way.
A bit like this one below.



A certain Mr Exide came to prominence during this time as well.


Yep,
You can get awesome CREE LED for just a few bucks, with all sorts of mounting brackets etc etc.
I have a couple of work lights with the Cree XLM T6 WOW.
Check that baby out.
On full power, you can use the torch as a hand warmer
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1147
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 07:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have just brought a new LED torch from Amazon only 2.50 inc batts. very pleased with it.

My house is all LED and the whole lot uses only 50watts of juice. Who cares about turning them off, I do though but no rush.

LED is the way to go now that the bulbs are only 3.00 a pop in bulk. 50,000 hours.

Wayne Carini from Chasing Classics tried a 1910 electric car similar to the one above, he was quite impressed.

Torch details.

Amazon
Rolston Quality tools
61773
12 LED multifunction lantern. 2.54. inc batteries and delivery.

at that price one really cant go wrong.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2240
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 08:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

If my memory is right, the car in your picture is a Detroit Electric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

These are occasionally advertised on Hemmings classic cars for sale website [worth a browse from time to time as lots of interesting cars are there - just have a look at the list of makes currently on offer].

http://www.hemmings.com/
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 539
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 09:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Amazing machines for the day.
Electricity is something they went in for BIG TIME.
Unfortunately all of a sudden, electric development just stopped.
A shame really.

I do like that the driver sits in the back.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2241
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 13:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

The main problem was they had to contend with lead-acid batteries; the weight of the battery packs and the limited range then available meant they were only suitable for use as town cars.

The technology was simple unlike the petrol-engined cars but the range restriction could not be overcome till recent times with the availability of Lithium-ion batteries. The range extensions in recent years for the Tesla range indicates this is still a work in progress plus the need to find a battery type that does not lose capacity over time which is the major failing of Li-ion batteries [their propensity to catch fire appears to have been solved].

I can see two types of vehicle in the years to come; battery electric and Hydrogen fuel cell depending where the vehicle gets most use and the availability of low-cost renewable electricity to charge batteries/generate hydrogen by electrolysis.

As always, we will live in interesting times.....
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 540
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 04 October, 2016 - 19:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You're absolutely right David
Interesting times, that is for sure.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 545
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 05 October, 2016 - 09:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



Gents,
Here is one of our brand new hybrid buses awaiting trail.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Thursday, 06 October, 2016 - 05:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

WE I have them in London, Enviro 440 double
deckers.

Recently the turbo charger oil feed on one hybrid leaked and the bus caught fire. No one injured.

The Enviro works quite well and is gaining sales.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 546
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Thursday, 06 October, 2016 - 06:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We have had a number of fires here in buses of all makes Robert.
However they are on older buses, one that caught fire recently was a 23 year old Scania big fire on the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Some were shocked that the state government still had a 23 year old bus running around.
We did have a run of CNG buses burning recently, but I think they have now got rid of all of those.