| Author | Message | ||
     Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2013 |
Now I am thinking whether to do the top to bottom UK caper in the Jaguar 420G or the Camargue. The Jaguar is quite nimble through the fast heel toe actions and is not worth much here in OZ. In the UK they appear to go for megabucks and if one surfaces in the US they think they are flogging off the crown jewels but here restorable ones go for beer money still and many have very little rust. The 420G is one of those cars that got the unreliability tag because at the time when it came out most Australian cars where as simple as bible bashing American politicians. I find them very reliable and can't wait until I can buy another one. The overhead cam and triple carbys sent most mechanics to therapy via the long necked beer bottle while the use of essential inhibitor to prevent corrosion in the cylinder head with all the monstrous results must have sent a lot of garages to the wall as in the late 60s inhibitor was viewed by many as snake oil. The Mad Scot has advanced the concept recently by losing a packet of loot (and we all know what the lost of loot does to the Scot mind) on towing fees and trailer hire on his beloved butt ugly KIA Sorento when he almost cooked the horrible ricebeater in a remote location. Yes the Mad Scot had professed no less than a week before that he "did not believe in inhibitor". Yes. Lovely. His theory is that rain water was just as good in an aluminium double overhead cam V6. Bloody genius I thought and it all became ghastly when a very hard to get at steel pipe going from the intake to the block rusted through leaving a pin hole to let the water escape at the back of the engine in a position so foul that it can only be viewed at night with a mirror and a bright light. I told the fool that if you have inhibitor and a hose blows you can smell it but you can't smell rainwater. Mind you I am happy with his behaviour in that he almost got this horrid piece of disposable transport off the road by cooking it. The fool has gone out an bought another Kia Sorento this one is Red and is automatic. But enough of the Scot loon............. But then I have been looking at the Armstrong Sidderley Saphires which look pretty cool but probably have a gearbox that costs a Czars family ransom for parts. Does anybody know anything about these cars? Oh if only I could find Doctor Who and go back in time to when roads world wide contained interesting vehicles and not the insect looking bland computerized plastic boring room with 4 wheels capers we have today. How we have fallen from grace just to save a buck or get robbed blind by our little Asian friends. Egad. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 687 Registered: 5-2015 |
My cousin has a Sorento and its an OK car for driving around the Welsh Mountains where he lives. The 420G is a Jaguar bastardised design. Its very much a parts bin special. Its made from a S type . Quite rare in the UK because every one wanted the MK2 baby Jaguar. Best XK engine is the 3.4. The best saloon Jaguar made was the series 1 XJ6. The series 2 could have been better but the work force who built them threw them together. The series 3 is OK though. But doesnt look as good. The Armstrong Sidely Sapphire is not a bad car but suffers from chassis flex which causes paint to fall off. More of a cruiser than a fast car. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 301 Registered: 2-2013 |
Actually Bob I can't see the 420G as being much like an S type at all. First its much wider, then its got the etype engine and then also it has the independent rear end wheres the S was a leaf spring job. I think the shape was a bloody ripper and the 420G has a slightly swankier look than the Mark X on which it was based. Totally puzzled why you think the 3.4 was better than the 4.2. Actually I think the 420G has a top look whereas the XJ6 and XJ12 were common type soccer mum cars in that well.... they were just so common. You surprised me Bob but then again you have that horrid Jeep......now that's a true Mexican mongrel of a job. Has it lost the tops off its pistons yet? They are good at that. Our wrecking yards are full of them and many a pensioner couple has had a good cry when the things fly apart in the outback with all the regularity of a Mussolini train. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 689 Registered: 5-2015 |
The S type had IRS not leaf springs. The MK 2 had cantilever rear leaf springs and a solid axle. This error is often made. Recently Wayne Carrini entered an S type at Auction and the auctioneer kept calling it a MK 2. The 3.4 S type was used by the Police and it handled well with certain mods. Uprated springs and dampers and fatter roll bars. The 3.4 had a shorter stroke and was rev happy. The 4.2 in comparision felt rough. The 3.4 also because of the extra revs when tuned was excellent for racing. The 4.2 if pushed too hard would run its bearings due to crank flex. Bigger is not always better. The absolute best Xk engine is actually the 3 litre which was race cars only. The Daimler Sovereign was a 420G in drag. Taking about auctions and going off topic. Bonhams sold a Ferrari for 10.9 million quid. The car turned out to be stolen. The new owner is suing Bonhams. I think Bonhams hasn't got 11 million quid. Oh dear could be end of Bonhams. My Jeep is still OK. The UK versions appear to be better made. The engine has grunt and is smooth and quiet. Instant starter. The roof lining is falling down and the dash board binnacle has warped to a new exciting shape. It uses more petrol than a Shadow and rides like a 3 legged camel. I want a Volvo 240 2.3 Estate. But the wife likes the Jeep. So I am stuck with the heap. It always passes the MOT. The last problem was the number plate lamp which fell apart and got lost on tbe road somewhere in Dorset 26 quid for a crap bit of plastic. I made one from aluminium. The tester liked it. Parts aren't cheap for Jeeps. The Jeep has lasted me 10 years but last years mileage was only 189 miles because of my illness. Also the electrical system is rubbish with rubbish switch gear the indicator stalk feels if its going to snap. The Jeep is fully loaded but has no time clock instead it has a compass!!!. | ||
| Carl Heydon Frequent User Username: car Post Number: 75 Registered: 2-2004 |
Bob and Vlad are talking about different cars. There is frequent confusion between the 420 and the 420G  Picture showing smaller Jaguar 420 in front and bigger Jaguar 420G in the back Credit to www.big-jags.de | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 691 Registered: 5-2015 |
I stand corrected the 420 was also a Daimler Sovereign. Not the 420 g which became the X type which became the XJ6. The 3.4 Mk 9 is worth a look but expensive. Good ones cost more than Shadows. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2013 |
No Bob the X type became the 420G by changing the grill slightly and giving it chrome strips down the sides and neither the X type (which we always called here the Mark 10 hence the roman numberal X) could never have become the XJ6 as the bodies are entirely different. Your info on the 3.4 to 4.2 is interesting. I have reved the guts out of a 4.2, its a bloody howler that really puts out when you sink the boot into it. Bob I will never understand that somebody like you who has an amazing amount of information on so many cars can even announce a single syllable in kindness on the Jeep. I thought all these Jeeps were made in Mexico. Maybe they had a plant in the UK but the ones out of Mexico really are garbage and they have a horrid name here, really horrid, probably not as horrid as a Lada but definitely well on the same path. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1006 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Vladimir The Mk 2 Jaguar had three engine options in the UK. The 2.4, 3.4 and 3.8 litre. These were all for Jaguar models in the 1950s. The 3.4 was widely regarded as the best. I think this is what Bob is referring to when he mentions this. The 2.4 was considered underpowered. There was not a lot of difference between the 3.4 and 3.8 performance wise, so the 3.4 was favoured, being marginally more economical. The factory produced 4.2 came much later in 1964 and therefore should not be compared with the earlier engine. As you mentioned, it is much better, as it had 16 years of development behind it, from the first 3.4 litre engines of 1948. It was a remarkable engine for the time. The XK150 I used to own had the 3.4 litre engine. Beautiful to look at. The rocker covers in those days were chrome plated without the Jaguar logo - looked great. Geoff | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.122.123.133 |
The A S Sapphire (two p,s) comes in 3 models plus the A S Star Sapphire. The 346 was fitted originally with a 4 speed Wilson patent preselector gearbox, readily repaired and very nice. The second series, from 1954, was fitted with the R-R built Hydramatic. The Star Sapphire had a Borg Warner type DG auto box with a dashboard lever to hold the drive in the intermediate gears. All of the early Jaguar parts including engines were made on machine tools that had made the Ferguson Tractors at Standard Motors during WW2, or for the Russians "The Great Patriotic War". (See the Victory Monument!). (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 871 Registered: 1-2008 |
Back in the day I had a 420G and it never let me down until the day the tin worm got too bad to risk driving at anything over a walking pace. Having left it in a car graveyard I walked the couple of miles to where I knew there was a Mk2 for sale and bought it. What a mistake-a to make-a! Power was down, comfort was down, noise was up and fuel useage was unbelievable. I flogged it on as quickly as I could and settled on a Standard Vanguard and a Standard Ensign for a while. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 306 Registered: 2-2013 |
A truly horrid story Jan and really should be rated XXXXX for the more sensitive kiddies on the forum. I think I would rather admit to being gay (I'm not) than to admit I traded a 420G Jaguar on a Standard. Horrible. The stuff vivid frightening nightmares are made of. Yesterday I got a phone call from a lovely chap who has just spent a fortune on his Shadow 1 telling me he had dropped the price on his Lincoln Mark 3 which I want to buy from $18,000 down to $14,000. Naturally, its essential that I buy this car because its necessary to have one, just like a Camargue. But I feel the man's pain. But worse he knows the location of a triple black Mark 3 in showroom condition but says the old gentleman who owns it will not part with it. I suggested we try waterboarding but he thought I was joking but I wasn't. A triple black Mark 3 is almost more essential than normal essential. I guess the poor old 420G got scraped for parts. Do the UK road workers put salt on the roads in the UK like in the USA? Horrid stuff. Russia method is different - no salt, no snow tyres, no stop many crash and punchup. Hillarious, happens every year without fail and this is without the vodka. So of the prices that are being asked for classic cars in the USA are crazy crazy. And I am wondering is the caper that you get a shiny one and put a really loon price on it and then just wait for the woodduck to buy or is it the case that .....like realestate in OZ the advertising of loony prices for houses has created a market where crazy prices are the norm and its all going to float until it doesn't float and bang the balloon busts and people start hurling themselves out of high rise windows or down onto sharp knives to avoid the embarrassment of joining the soup kitchen line. I don't know but the prices of Jaguar E-types and Aston Martins and Jensen Interceptor is Hunter S Thompson weird at the moment both in UK and USA. Not as stupid as Zil, Chaika prices in any of the former Eastern Warsaw pact countries but certainly going in that direction. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 698 Registered: 5-2015 |
Jensen CV8 google it, you may like what you see | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 542 Registered: 5-2009 |
I desire a Daimler 420 limousine, I just like that style in certain cars. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 307 Registered: 2-2013 |
Jensen CV8 look a bit grotesque to me in the front (I supposed that's weird coming from a Camargue owner). Really at 37,450 pound its way out there. That equates to a retail 74,000 half litre bottles of vodka, thats good vodka in Russia. I would take the vodka. At that price the Jensen is something you would really have to love like the painful death of your mother in law or a non scratched DVD of a politician getting run over and road pizza - ed by a London bus. To import such a car to Australia would be akin to lighting a barrel of cash. Okay for some but I still have bills. Daimler DS420 are on the market for twenty grand AUD here and that's a reasonable price for such a flash looking rarity. Again an essential car for a collector. Bob cruelly called the DS420 a 420G in drag. Very cutting and hurtful and you can see what happens when you have a black Shadow but a wife who likes a Jeep. Scandalous and unexplainable to say the least. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 703 Registered: 5-2015 |
I remember a Hotel owner from Jersy saying that the Daimler was better than a Shadow and cost much less to run. I was servicing a 420 which he had just brought ready to go to Jersy. The front compartment is trimed more to be functional than good looking but neverless the quality is good. The rear is more sumptuous. Typical Limousine practice. They are no ball of fire but will cruise in the 80mph region all day. They ride nice and have XJ6 rear suspension. Great family car. Boot is useful size. Best in black. White looks wrong. Imperial red and black looks good. Engine and gearbox life is around 100k miles. So 420s on original engines and gearboxes need careful checking. But engine and gearbox is robust and relatively cheap and easy to overhaul. They had various gearboxes fitted the later ones were smoother. Lifting off the throttle to provoke a gear change greatly smoothed the car out. All in all a good car. Humber Pullman. These were favoured by top military brass. They viewed them as rugged limousines with a small off road ability. The cars did quite well. There as so many cars buses and trucks that I like. I sometimes wonder about how good a Rolls-Royce actually is. I have over the years driven a lot of nice cars ( and some that were truly awful). Nothing quite drives like a Rolls-Royce. And then again nothing quite drives like an XJ6 or a Mercedes (take your pick from the many makes) My Sister has a Diesel VW Sharan. Its smooth rides and handles OK and not noisy. Its quite a nice car to be a passenger in. A motoring journalist quipped that Rolls-Royce was a truimph of workmanship over design. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 704 Registered: 5-2015 |
I said that the Daimler Sovereign was a 420G in drag. The DS 420 is not a Daimler Sovereign. The DS 420 is a completely different car and a limousine. The sovereign became the Daimler version of the XJ6. I like black cars. Next favourite is dark blue then dark green. Hate white. Some cars I like in red some I like in pastel. But a Shadow looks just right in black to me that is. Yes my Jeep is a poorly made car. But in the UK the engine and gearbox has a reputation for being bullet proof. I rarely drive faster than 2000 rpm. If I floor it then the jeep goes quite well. The aircon is good. The build quality is terrible. I paid 1500 quid 10 years ago. Repairs have cost about 100 quid plus service items. I really have to say despite the crap the Jeep has been good value for money. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1007 Registered: 5-2012 |
The Jensen CV8 is a marmite car, which is English for "you either love it or hate it". I personally love them. There was always one parked a short distance from where I worked. Beautiful car. As an aside, when I am out driving the Silver Shadow I often think how great it would be if I was in another car watching it cruise down the highway. Pity they are getting so rare. As another aside. There is a new arrival to my (extended) family. My son's, wife's father (if that makes sense) has just bought a 1927 Ghost. Can't wait till I'm next in SoCal so I can enjoy the delights of being taken for a drive in it. The rather poor pic below is of my son and his father in law in the car. Here are his comments so far - "It's got 3 gears which crunch terribly every time u change gear. It's got an 8 cylinder engine, goes about 45 mph and feels like a runaway mine train as it's only got rear wheel brakes."  | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 547 Registered: 5-2009 |
Loverly! | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 308 Registered: 2-2013 |
Geoff that's a million dollars worth isn't it? Or maybe more. I have never liked any car pre 1940s with the exception of Duesenberg. I have never driven the earlier cars but I think they would feel worse than a truck without power steering with as much luxury as a wheelbarrow. In short nasty and horrid. But one man's trash is another's treasure. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1793 Registered: 4-2003 |
Any car with a crash gearbox and which requires a lot of skill to achieve a smooth gear change without "double shuffling" is both a challenge and a delight to drive. I have strong admiration for the custodians of pre-WW2 vehicles who let the "baby boomers" and later generations experience driving their cars at some risk to the gearboxes from mistimed gear changes. I have always enjoyed the sense of personal achievement that accompanies smooth gear changes in non-synchromesh transmissions. Forget the heavy steering, this is only a problem if the car is not moving fast enough for the steering to lighten up. Those of us who learnt to drive before the widespread fitting of power steering accept this as a normal part of driving older vehicles with the exception of certain US-designed cars with 5 1/2 turns lock-to-lock manual steering [think XK and XL Ford Falcons from the early 1960's] to give light steering but very difficult to quickly apply opposite lock if you got into a slide on dirt or wet roads. You quickly learnt to stay within the limits of the vehicle or "enjoy" exploring the adjacent roadside verges, or worse, the adjacent vegetation  . | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1008 Registered: 5-2012 |
I'm sure my son was partly joking when he mentioned the crashed gear changes, although I'm sure his father in law misses the odd one, given that he is new to the joys of a crash gearbox. Geoff | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 5.80.18.25 |
Your Silver Ghost should have a 6 cylinder engine in the form of two blocks of three cylinders, and your son needs to learn how to double (de)clutch. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Chris Gillings Frequent User Username: chrisg Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2001 |
That's not a Ghost. RR stopped making Ghosts after 1925. It's a New Phantom, almost certainly a Springfield. Six cylinder engine and four-wheel brakes. It concerns me greatly that someone would own such a car and have no idea what it is. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1011 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Chris I was just quoting my son's email comments. His interest is in performance sports cars so it doesn't surprise me he got all the details wrong - lol. He has yet to gain an appreciation of these fine cars. No worries regards his father in law. He is a classic car veteran and will know exactly what he has got and will look after it in the way we all expect. Geoff | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 5.80.18.25 |
Vladimir is correct regarding these early cars, most underwhelming to say the least. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 706 Registered: 5-2015 |
Crash gear boxes are easy to use. Foot on clutch in to neutral. Foot off clutch rev engine a bit foot on clutch and select lower gear. Changing up is the same except allow revs to slow. The Phantom engine will pull from walking pace in top gear. So around town can be done in 2nd gear. The way to drive old cars is gently and sedate. Many get old cars and expect them to drive like modern cars. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Prolific User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2008 |
Bob, you need to ride with my son when he is road testing pre war Aston Martins, Sedate he isn't ! and these glorious sports car move even by modern standards. Most are still competitively Raced and rallied. Mark |
