| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3210 Registered: 4-2003 |
There is seldom a contribution from Australians on this Forum. It is nice to have contributions from everywhere but I do pose the rhetorical question why Australians have deserted. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 737 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Richard Why don't we see if there is a consensus on having all posts, more than a month old, deleted, in the spirit of International compromise. This is, after all, just an idler chatter forum so there is no reference material here. Deleting old threads would prevent idler chatter getting larger than the other forums and help with the search facility. Just a thought. Geoff | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 415 Registered: 5-2009 |
I like Australians. At least on this Forum. Bill Coburn and the others have fun with their Cars and they work on them. I haven't any interest in pretending to be rich, just enjoy getting my hands on another machine. I see nothing wrong with purging this topic periodically. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Experienced User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2015 |
Australians and New Zealanders are honorary British. They use the Union Jack. I have met a few over the years and they fit well into British life. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3211 Registered: 4-2003 |
My goodness. As usual no Australans about. Just the Union Flag (sometimes incorrectly named the Union Jack) which is not even English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish. The flag of England:  | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Grand Master Username: lluís Post Number: 364 Registered: 8-2007 |
And a Spanish, educated in France, grown up in Germany and living in the Netherlands... | ||
| richard george yeaman Prolific User Username: richyrich Post Number: 298 Registered: 4-2012 |
I am sure there is a wide range of reasons why any of us would stop posting such as Lack of interest, Change in circumstances, Falling out with other members, Maybe got a new girlfriend!! much more interesting than an old Rolls Royce. Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 739 Registered: 5-2012 |
There is seldom a contribution from Australians on this Forum. It is nice to have contributions from everywhere but I do pose the rhetorical question why Australians have deserted. Am I alone in interpreting Richard's comment as a light hearted jibe against us "idler chatterers". If it was a direct question, why pose it as rhetorical. Why no question marks. With his undoubted access to many Australians through email, why not drum up support "offline". The true meaning I get is " idler chatter is too banal a forum for any self respecting Australian to use". I am sure Richard would, with a wry smile, absolutely deny this. Lluis - Re: And a Spanish, educated in France, grown up in Germany and living in the Netherlands... And fluent in English also - Impressive!!! Geoff} | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3212 Registered: 4-2003 |
I like foreigners too. I lived in Europe for decades for heaven’s sakes and married a German girl. My daughter is Swiss and at school near the shamed FIFA HQ in Zurich but I chose to move back to Australia as I am after all Australian. The oddity is that Australians have opted out of the Australian RROC Forum. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1345 Registered: 6-2009 |
There are also many who tire of purity tests, no matter the context. Others do a better job of shaking that nonsense off and calmly proceeding. We all know that the Idler Chatter forum will be the cause of the ultimate decline and fall of the RROC-Australia Discussion Forums, don't we? People come and go in online forums all the time. 'Tis the nature of the beast. . . Brian, who, through an accident of birth, is not Australian (not that this should matter one iota) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3213 Registered: 4-2003 |
Geoff, This is not about you at all. Other contributions seem to have stalled Australian trust of this Forum. It would just be nice if we had at least a little Australian content on this Forum. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1629 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard, I think you are "drawing a long bow" with your comment re the number of "regular" [my interpretation] Australian contributors. We have a large number of local infrequent contributors who continue to access the forum but only contribute when something is raised that they feel they can comment on. Most topics are specialist in nature and there are a small number of members capable of making meaningful contributions. Very few, if any, can contribute continuously. This forum is open to ALL R-R/B enthusiasts and custodians no matter where they live in the world and this provides the depth and number of posts on each topic in the Forum. Rarely is a topic raised that does not get at least one response from one of our members. We are Australian with the national characteristic of helping those in need if we have the knowledge and experience to do so. I regard our International contributors and readers as an invaluable resource who make this Forum a recognised and active place to seek and provide information that can help someone with a problem or requiring information. Personally I would hate to see the Forum become xenophobic and introspective causing our international members to leave or become inactive because they no longer feel welcome. I do not believe the assumed "lack of interest" by Australian members is due to the international membership let alone the introduction of Idler Chatter which provides a variety of general interest comment and opinions from members. I believe this general interest content will help maintain interest and activity in the Forum at times when the technical content is not relevant to or comprehensible by individual members. By reverting to a strictly technical format with emphasis on Australian contributors, we run the serious risk of becoming a less important providor of information, advice and help by alienating a large part of our existing international contributors who provide a very large knowledge base. This knowledge base is reflected in almost every technical topic with contributions from around the world. If we had to rely on predominantly Australian contributions, the number of possible contributors is not great and many topics may not get a response. It is axiomatic; the more participating members we have, the greater will be the probability that a member/visitor posting a request for information or plea for help will receive a number of replies that will help that member. Idler Chatter provides a means by which we can get to know each other a little better even though we may never meet in person. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2015 |
This forum is international. With the head office in Australia. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 274 Registered: 2-2013 |
Yes right on David, just because I am Soviet does not mean I am not Australian. Richard lives in Sydney and Switzerland. I consider Sydney to be now a very Un Australian place or very unlike the real Australia which has in reality vanished from the cities. Yesterday six of us were out fixing a bore and a billion flies were upon us. The cable on the crane snapped and almost took the head off the main station manager but then the other station manager's hunting dog nibbled a dingo bait, went into a fit and none of us had a gun so he had to smash its skull in with a hammer. Now that's Australian being out on the land raising cattle so you can eat meat whilst the greenies and vegetarians mill around the brainless city dwelling politicans bringing in nutcase laws on pig hunting and rodeos. But seriously I think Richard is up to his old tricks again as I detect often in his posts a very dry Monty Python wit. However, he brings to mind the fact that there are far too little Australian's who know anything about Rolls Royce or Bentley apart from the tripe produced by the media and word of mouth old woman's gossip. In a way that's good because it is keeping the prices of these fantastic cars low while real estate is at a loon pre dodo level and certainly the manufacturers of new especially Asian cars would be happy. On the downside many a restorable Rolls Royce Bentley is getting scrapped because of the lack of knowledge. This forum may be called the Australian RR Forum and Australian's created it but it is that good it has became a truly international forum. Indeed and here is a good question - just why is it that it is the only free forum I can find on the entire planet with tons of information specifically on Rolls Royce and Bentley? On a more idle chatter platform I have made friend with one of the cattle chasing pilots here and he has given me copies of a number of documentaries showing detailed information on Soviet fighter plane development and I saw footage of Soviets in the 1940s driving up to the planes in the snow in not one but three Rolls Royces! | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1350 Registered: 6-2009 |
All forums that allow "open registration" are, by definition, international in nature regardless of their physical home bases. This is another of those, "What's the (real) problem here?," situations. If Richard Treacy's assertion, "Other contributions seem to have stalled Australian trust of this Forum," is actually true then certain people are very easily disquieted. Having read quite a few threads that predate my participation here I have to say that this venue is no stranger to occasional violent disagreements but, as I said earlier, those who have long histories with online forums simply shake these off and move placidly forward. Adults are perfectly able to look at conflicting information and diverse opinions and to arrive at conclusions that are satisfactory to them based on these and their own life history. Contrary to the cherished opinions of some, there is very seldom The One True Way, and most recognize this. Each of us finds the way(s) that work for us. It is well to open one's mind but only as a preliminary to closing it. . . for the supreme act of judgment and selection. ~ Irving Babbitt My judgments and selections may not coincide with yours, for any "you," and that's perfectly fine. Brian | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 203 Registered: 6-2005 |
Whatever the reason for the reduced Australian content, the forum's future depends on the quality and value of the postings, regardless of where they are from. At this time the quality of the technical discussion and advice is very high and an important resource for those of us determined to keep our cars in running order. In my opinion the ever increasing amount of Idler Chatter detracts from the quality of the forum. The originators of the forum have included a clause in the Terms and Conditions as follows - This forum being dedicated to Rolls-Royce and Bentley related topics, you will refrain from posting messages that are not obviously relevant to those topics. Why is it not being adhered to ? However if we must keep Idler Chatter, Geoff's suggestion that its postings be regularly purged is a good one. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Grand Master Username: lluís Post Number: 366 Registered: 8-2007 |
Some thoughts: This Forum is not bound to club membership. Being member of a few, some people find it distressing or unsafe to be "open" but then they are apalled when they realise that"a National Forum" for something as restricted as RR/B simply will not get enough momentum. You need to open. I guess that nationally, people see each others at events, so that probably they do not need to chat on a forum, or do it less. English is a Lingua Franca, so it's easy for contributors to participate here. A point which I do find important is, that a technical Forum should me mainly technical, slightly idler... so I guess that we should put as much Energy as possible in the technical parts irrespective of the use of idler... In reality, I could not care less about nationality. When something has to be fixed, I just want to be fixed. My 5-y.o. daughter is starting to learn his 5th language and she is proficient in Dutch, Catalan and French... there is nothing I find attractive in being proud of an identity which I did not build myself. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3214 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vladmir, what makes you think that I live in Sydney ? I would like to live there. It would be a nice place to be. A humble home in Vaucluse would do me. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3215 Registered: 4-2003 |
Lluis, I hope that our alignments are understood. You and I own similar cars although yours is of a higher specification. Absolutely, contributions from everywhere are the lifeblood of this Forum. It would perish without. The problem at present is that contributions from Australia on this Forum have been repelled for whatever reason. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 304 Registered: 4-2012 |
Richard and others if I thought that members were boycotting the forum for whatever reason I think I would ask them the question why. I am on this forum as a do it myself person I don't pretend that I am rich I dress in old joggers and I like reading all the material on the Idler chatter and the General section and I love the technical section the best, I think we have to move on with what we have and the answer is yes some of us are Australian. Richard | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2015 |
The above posting prove that idler chatter is a good idea. You are all jogging along having a polite discussion which is how it should be. I would like to think that an ecumenical forum unites people of different cultures washing away misunderstandings that cause so much trouble in the world. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 277 Registered: 2-2013 |
John has an interesting point "This forum being dedicated to Rolls-Royce and Bentley related topics, you will refrain from posting messages that are not obviously relevant to those topics. Why is it not being adhered to ? " Perhaps its not being adhered to because the moderator is flexible and sees nothing wrong with RR/B gentlemen discussing other matters under Idle Chatter. In any case a simple amendment to the charter: insert "except in Idle Chatter" after the word "topics". Obviously some contributors just can't stand the fact that we are chatting idle but yet can't resist seeing what we are chatting about. It's a bit like the government and the church constantly attempting to snoop into people's bedrooms in western countries - not so distasteful but still full of strangeness in that discussions of non RR/B matters disturbs their sense of what is right for the forum. Well Idle Chatter can be axed and then we can all be told off by the moderator for being naughty if we discuss any un RR/B matter. That's called censorship by the way. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 278 Registered: 2-2013 |
"Vladmir, what makes you think that I live in Sydney ? I would like to live there. It would be a nice place to be. A humble home in Vaucluse would do me." Because you listed "Sydney" with Zurich and Canberra in your profile as your home town. Vaucluse is nice, disturbingly overpriced and has been that way since the 1960s when I lived in Woolarah and Rose Bay. A cut above battery hen housing but still too close to gigantic slum areas. Sydney - not as bad as L.A. yet but well on its way. In Moranbah you were once close to the real Australia, nice little town now that the house prices have dropped $200,000 as the mines pull the pin and financial shirts are removed ruthlessly. You just have to love the mining industry. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 747 Registered: 5-2012 |
Richard asserts there is some currently unknown or undisclosed factor that is repellent to Australians, which is causing them to desert the forums. The suspicion, I presume, being the introduction of Idler Chatter. However, a quick check through the Silver Shadow forum for the two months prior to the establishment of Idler Chatter reveals there is no significant change in Australian participation. I agree it is lower than it has been, but is still healthy. Regular Australian contributors are Bill, David, Vladimir, John, Richard ... to name but a few. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1358 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir Kirillov wrote: In any case a simple amendment to the charter: insert "except in Idle Chatter" after the word "topics". On this we agree. And having been involved in this sort of thing in the past, most people have no idea of what's in the terms of service for forums because most just click OK/Next when presented with them and never think about them again. Also, when one is dealing with terms of service these seldom get updated prior implementation of live changes. You're often lucky if they get updated then. Well Idle Chatter can be axed and then we can all be told off by the moderator for being naughty if we discuss any un RR/B matter. That's called censorship by the way. On the first part we are incomplete agreement, and that's the main reason that the majority of online forums specifically include a forum such as Idler Chatter. There are always the school marms who want to enforce The Rules, yet common sense dictates that there will be many occasions when topics not central to a given forum's subject area will arise that some members wish to discuss, and if there's no legitimate venue for these then the marms are technically correct. It becomes simply ridiculous when an actual need and desire of a significant portion of a user community is twarted. That being said, enforcing terms of service is not, in any meaningful way, censorship. These are the community rules you agree to when you sign up to use privately owned and sponsored communications media such as this one. Telling someone who is in violation (and, generally, repeated and flagrant violation - or really serious violation right away) that they need to follow the terms of service is not censorship. Everyone here is here at the pleasure of those who own and run these forums. I have no more right to say whatever I darned well please that is in violation of the terms I agreed to than I do to insist that a newspaper publish whatever I submit or a TV station broadcast what I want to say simply because I want to say it. Editorial judgment, which is what enforcing terms of service falls under, isn't censorship. The words censor and censorship are really reduced to meaninglessness if any instance of telling someone that they can't/shouldn't say something in a given time and place gets called censorship. Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1630 Registered: 4-2003 |
Re the Forum Rule as quoted by John Kilkenny "This forum being dedicated to Rolls-Royce and Bentley related topics, you will refrain from posting messages that are not obviously relevant to those topics"; the addition of Idler Chatter was the decision of the Administrator who is the only person with an unfettered right to do so however the Forum Rules have not been amended as of today. I am speculating our Administrator may have had the intention of testing Idler Chatter as an addition to the Forum for evaluation whether it should become a permanent feature or not. Accordingly, everyone is entitled to express their point of view and preferences as has occurred in this and other threads. I have expressed my point of view as I am a contributor like everyone else and I have no say in whether this Topic continues or is terminated. No doubt, the Rules will be amended when a final decision is made. I believe Bob UK's [Robert Reddington] post above sums up the current situation succinctly and I could not express it better: "The above posting prove[s] that idler chatter is a good idea. You are all jogging along having a polite discussion which is how it should be. I would like to think that an ecumenical forum unites people of different cultures washing away misunderstandings that cause so much trouble in the world." I see my responsibility as ensuring this situation continues and all members receive fair and unbiased consideration when posting on the Forum. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2015 |
Obviously at some stage idler chatter will have to be purged, it could do with a prune now because its getting a bit big. None of my postings are important. The music stuff can go because its the sort of stuff that once read is not very interesting unless of course one is into playing musical instruments. And then I should imagine ones that are already know about what I wrote and Wikipedia explains it better. So feel free to purge. Oh yeah my health blog can go because I got control of my illness and feel much better. I am raring to go. I have decided that I am cured even if I ain't. Any way its was a bit precious of me to post health stuff. I also don't see a drop off from our Australian cousins. Maybe some Australians feel that the other nations are stealing the forum. The Union Jack. A flag is a jack when flown on a boat or ship. The UK being an island is very marine orientated. So the name Jack for flag is common. The red cross on a white back ground is the English flag only. The Union flag is the UK. England Ulster Scotland and Wales. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 306 Registered: 4-2012 |
I am not one to normally compare statistics but I will run these past you to see what you think there are 615 listed users on the user list. In 2013 there was 75 users contributed in 2014 there was 95 users contributed and to date in 2015 we have 98 users contributing I don't know if they are the same users and I don't know what nationality they are and I don't care, later in the year I will check maybe we will get some more to contribute. Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 748 Registered: 5-2012 |
615 is a respectable total, much higher than I imagined. For contributing users, 2013=75 2014=95 2015=98 - that's a trend going in the right direction, especially when you consider we are not even half way through 2015. I too am totally unconcerned about the nationality of anyone. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1361 Registered: 6-2009 |
Mr. Gore, or RR Admin, is there any way to get a count of guests (often called lurkers in forum-speak) who read but don't post? Every forum has a contingent of those, and in some cases it's very much larger than the cohort of active contributors. This is not a criticism of "read-only" in any way. But read-only users are also an audience, perhaps a broader one than we think. It would be interesting to know if that audience exists and what its size is. Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1632 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Brian, I do not have access to this information and the Administrator would be the only one with access if the software provides this data. From comments on the RRBEW Forums referring to our Forum by unregistered members, I suspect there will be a small but active group of "lurkers". Occasionally, one will come out and post as a guest if they have a specific need. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1362 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, Thanks. I would presume there's got to be some sort of "hit count" function, but who knows, as this forum software is to current forum software as Usenet is to the worldwide web. (And that's an observation, not a criticism). Brian | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Frequent User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 84 Registered: 5-2015 |
I post on another car forum and that forum shows how many views for a posting. Often there's one reply but 40 views. I have always been aware that this is the case. I like the term lurkers. Another that amuses me is grazers which is people who eat things in supermarkets and forget to pay. | ||
| Jeanne Eve Frequent User Username: jeve Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2002 |
As an Australian woman and one of the instigators many moons ago for this RROC-A website, I am delighted to see how far this forum has developed (new meaning for 'grazers' and 'lurkers' for me). And many thanks to our Australian former and present webmaster/mistress and their voluntary hours. I believe it is still the only R-R forum open predominantly to the general public--its strength. Personally I find all engine talk a little boring; I prefer long distance driving and travelling, so this is my first visit to Idler Chatter after a few years absence. Hi David Gore--great job! | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 310 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi Jeanne Eve I am glad you approve of this section of the forum and you are right the long distance driving stories and the travel adventures are great maybe we will coax some more Ladies to participate in this section as the subjects are not tied to Engines and such anyway nice talk with you. Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 758 Registered: 5-2012 |
Jeanne I'm so pleased to hear your endorsement for the progress this forum has made and for David's stewardship of it. I greatly enjoyed reading your account of the RREC Centenary Alpine Trial and of course also the many photos you published. For any readers new to this site, it can be found here: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/14188.html?1373741724 Kindest Regards Geoff | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 808 Registered: 1-2008 |
So what if Australians appear to be in a minority on the forum? Compared to the whole world they are a minority in everything - apart from being Australian. You could say the same for all citizenships. However we are all RR/B enthusiast who share knowledge about the marques for the common good. A bit of random chat could similarly be said to be good for the soul. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1640 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Jeanne and welcome back, You probably know me better than anyone else on the forum from the time when I was an active member of the NSW Branch and the difficulties encountered when this forum was proposed and implemented by our small group of members who saw this as a means of promoting and helping the preservation of our cars and sharing our common interests no matter where we lived or whether we belonged to the Club or not. Unfortunately, my life changes, relocation away from Sydney and new responsibilities have prevented me from participating in Club activities in recent years. However, the forum allows me to make an ongoing contribution to the Club and to our community at large and I hope I can continue to make a contribution in the years to come. I have missed your event reports and you can see from the comments above that others have as well. I hope you can resume your event blogs as they are always interesting and keep us informed on activities and locations that we may never have the opportunity to visit. Kind regards David | ||
| Jeanne Eve Frequent User Username: jeve Post Number: 76 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wow-What a welcome back--thanks everyone for kind comments. David: as you have been Moderator since Day 1 for this website,I suggest you already have, and will make, an enormous contribution to the Club. Much appreciated and a necessary role. Methinks our car rally days may be over, but instead I have developed my own small website, see www.longdistancedriving.com to encourage others. I'm now 'virtual rallying' and writing up experiences of own and others.Early days. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1384 Registered: 6-2009 |
Jeanne, For me, it's not a welcome back but a simple welcome, since it appears that your prior activity and my registration on the forums did not overlap. I'm always happy to hear "a new voice" on the forums. Since participation by women is so rare it's great to have a female voice here. Please hang around, even if you tend to stick to Idler Chatter! Brian, who knows there are some wrench-turning women out there and who wishes they'd pop up on automotive forums more often as well | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 312 Registered: 4-2012 |
Brian I think Vladimir has all the wrench turning women working on his Camargue in the Australian outback (just a thought). Richard. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2013 |
Nice fantasy Richard, but the only women I seem to meet are the wallet emptying women not the wrench turning women! | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Prolific User Username: bob_uk Post Number: 105 Registered: 5-2015 |
I concur with Brian a female presence is always welcome. I agree that driving is more fun the fixing the car. However driving stories are quiet boring because as we all know RRs never fail to proceed. My wife doesn't drive. She likes only leather and wood and a quiet car that rides nice. She recognises the quality in a RR. While giving me a hand she remarked that all the bits are well made. |
