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Theo Whitmont
Experienced User
Username: old_mate

Post Number: 56
Registered: 04-2020
Posted on Monday, 30 August, 2021 - 20:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Everyone,

A friend of mine has recently purchased GSK46. 1926 20 HP. Link below to recent photos. The RREC has no record of this chassis. I have seen the chassis plate - its original and unremarkable.

Does anyone have information or photos that they can share to assist the new owner in understanding the car? He is new to Rolls Royce and all information is of assistance. Thanks in advance.

image/webp
951A2D5E-19A9-4871-9A4A-60951737ACDB.webp (36.6 k)
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Dorien Berteletti
New User
Username: dorien

Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Monday, 30 August, 2021 - 22:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well the obvious is why not get help with the US Rolls club were the car may be known?
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3199
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, 30 August, 2021 - 23:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You can definitely seek information from the Rolls-Royce Foundation, too.

It's the sister organization of the RROC-US, and is on the same small campus. They have a significant historical archive and should be able to tell you whether anything exists in their holdings on that chassis number.

Brian

P.S. International membership in the RROC-US is fairly inexpensive.

Rolls-Royce Owners Club - US
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JonasTrachsel
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 85.7.52.221
Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2021 - 01:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This car looks much younger than 1926. Obviously a rebody job from the mid- to late 1930ies, probably by Southern Coachworks or a similar company.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4000
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2021 - 08:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gentlemen,

1. Our regular contributor Christopher Carnley has provided the following information in relation to this vehicle:"

"This is GSK 46, the 20 HP in question. The ad says "Southern Motor Bodies", this was a firm who in the 1930,s would rebody knackered old Rolls-Royces, and rejuvenate them with later coachwork.

I will see if the experts on the RREC know more.

Second point, Coachwood is non-durable, it has an estimated life of a maximum of 7 years outdoors, and is only suitable for Australian Court Rooms (!).

All wood is hygroscopic to some extent, and will suck dampness out of the air.

That is what has caused the decay in his case and the microbes accompanying the wet.

1

2. GSK46 was sold on 24 Oct 2019 in Schaumburg Ill., for $USD29,700.

3. The bodies were actually made by Coachcraft and sold by Southern.

For "Chapham" read Clapham.

4. GSK46 looks rather "mucky dressed up", to me. The air cleaner has gone.


2

3

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Dorien Berteletti
New User
Username: dorien

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2021 - 08:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The statement.... "firm who in the 1930,s would rebody knackered old Rolls-Royces",

Is ???
They rebodied older models to give them a more current look. I can't see anybody payng to have a new body and trim put on a knackered car.}
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3200
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2021 - 12:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It's funny, but when I saw that picture I immediately wondered if that might be a Southern body. We had someone local who owned a car of approximately that vintage that had been rebodied by Southern and, very strangely coincidentally, painted that same turquoise shade.

All I can remember right now is that his surname was Cook, and he was very old when I first encountered the car at a local British Car Club show around 18 years ago. We had a local RROC member who was an incredible car restoration expert, and made his living doing just that. He used to maintain the car and drove it for Mr. Cook on many occasions. His name was Al Morkunas, but he passed away from cancer several years back.

Brian
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2464
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 31 August, 2021 - 16:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Looks as though the antifreeze has not been changed for many a year.
Ally head and block would be a great expense to repair like a SS engine for the sake of regular antifreeze changes.

But it does match the cars color!
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Theo Whitmont
Experienced User
Username: old_mate

Post Number: 59
Registered: 04-2020
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 00:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gents,

This wealth of information is so very much appreciated and my thanks go to each of you for the contributions made.

I have passed on the commentary verbatim and can report that Ben, the new owner has asked that I express his thanks for the kindness shown by this forum.

I will of course suggest that he joins this group to seek the full benefit of the knowledge that resides amongst you.

The only problem is that I will promptly tumble from my pedestal when he realises that I'm not so knowledgeable.... but I know people who are.

Moderator Comment: Theo, yet another verification of my Welsh grandfather's sage advice to me in my teenage years; "It's not what you know but who you know"!!!!

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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3201
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 05:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I knew, somewhere, I had photos of the car I was recalling. It is a 1925 Rolls-Royce 25 HP with the exact same Southern body and ever so slightly different paint. Here are some photos I took of it at the 2009 Shenandoah Valley British Car Club Show.

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10


Brian
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.164.127.138
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 01:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So do I, Theo, headed by Mr Google.

From the well known song, "If you could Google like I can Google"1

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Dorien Berteletti
New User
Username: dorien

Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 12:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OOPS Master Vogel, that is a 1929 car as per the vertical grille.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3203
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 13:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dorien,

Not my era. And I had only the tag from the show, which is the second photo, to go on.

Also, I cannot be certain that this was the original grille, either. I remember Charles Cook talking about "later modifications" that occurred well before I was alive and he owned the car, as well as a few (see the engine bay) that he did make.

Brian
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Martin Webster
New User
Username: martin_webster

Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2018
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 18:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dorien,
When the Southern Motor Company and Ranalah coachworks modified these cars in the 1930s one of the operations included modifying the radiator shell by fitting full length thermostatic shutters and shortening the filler neck. Itís not possible to date one of these vehicles merely by the appearance of the radiator. Some of them were also fitted with black radiator badges,but obviously this one retains the original.
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Dorien Berteletti
New User
Username: dorien

Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2013
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 21:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ok on those theories, but then all you have to confirm the year is a hand written windshield card/tag.
If Southern Motor may have changed the radiator shell, then without a chassis number its ???
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3204
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2021 - 00:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dorien,

That's correct. That's all I had or have to confirm.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that someone who used to bring a car to the same local British Car Club show every year did not know what it was that they owned, or that someone would not have corrected them at some point if they had somehow misidentified it.

The owner's stated identification holds sway for me in this instance. And it's fine if it doesn't for you.

Brian
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 109.159.182.193
Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2021 - 02:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Rolls-Royce carburettor has been replaced by an S.U. type, you know, "Skinners Union".

(Message approved by david_gore)
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DorienBerteletti
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 76.64.22.67
Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2021 - 02:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian
This car is really not part of the initial discussion so ??
The car world is full of people who when questioned show that they are unfamiliar with the car they owned and taking said car to British car shows will not necessarily enlighten them.
Having had 2 20HP and not counting the rad shell it's not easy to confirm a year without driving it.
This one has an SU mounted at a jaunty angle with laid down coil...so much for caring for your car.
Time to move on
Dorien

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4003
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 17:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I must apologise to Christopher Carnley for the delay in posting the following information as I have had other demands on my time that I could not avoid.

Christopher has forwarded the following comments and associated photos for me to post on his behalf:

"What Martin says is factual, not only does he possess a 1939 Southern Motors catalogue but this car has become a thread on the RREC.

I am taking most of my information from an article by Tom Clarke (Rolls-Royce and Bentley in the Sunburnt Country) on the replicas in The Roycean magazine issue 2.

The blue car shown here and the one in the pictures of Brian are the same vehicle.

It is in fact a 1925 car, built by Ranalah Motors, one of a series to a design by Vehicle Developments, using steel pressings supplied by Pressed Steel in Coventry. The radiator is taken from a 1932 Rolls-Royce 20/25.

The design is given the name of "The Dorchester 3 position drop head coupe".

The engine is one that I rebuilt from a 1929 20 HP car, and with my own version of the full flow oil filter. Nice!

The scrape up 20 is only for the brave."

RR201925

20 hoss filter

20 hoss scrapeup

.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3206
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, 05 September, 2021 - 01:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just FYI, I knew Bruce Elder very well, and his business still exists. I was standing in front of it as they were "juggling the Packards" on Thursday.

It's right next door to my partner's studio building, which was the warehouse building for White Star Mills.

I can't remember what dealership, way back when, originally occupied Bruce's space, but the building has a drive-on automobile elevator. The number of amazing cars that have come through there during the time I've lived in Staunton (moved here in July 2002) has been amazing.

We also had a gentleman, Al Morkunas, who ran The Motorcar Company, an absolutely top-notch high-end restoration business. He, like Bruce, is now deceased. I got to see an early 30s Phantom DHC that he was restoring when it was in a number of pieces. It's owned by someone in Nellysford and I have never seen it except when it was "in the shop."

Brian
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3207
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, 05 September, 2021 - 01:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christopher,

Do you happen to have the chassis number for the car we've both posted photos of?

I'd love to update my photo collection such that I have the chassis number as part of the photo names.

Brian
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 109.159.63.229
Posted on Sunday, 05 September, 2021 - 04:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

This is as yet unknown, the advertisement states that is in the "F" series, and pre-front wheel brakes, and the 3 speed centre change gearbox.

There us a strong suggestion that it is GA61, and from a Bonham's auction in 1974 it may be that the engine and gearbox are ex a 20/25, and that front wheel brakes were added, all by Ranalah.

It is also believed to have gone to the USA at that time, "but the glass is very dark" !

Chris.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3208
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, 05 September, 2021 - 11:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris,

Thanks. I do not believe this car is still in local hands, but it could be. Then Shenandoah Valley British Car Club (like most entities) cancelled its show last year and I don't know for certain whether it will happen this year.

If it does, and I get to it, I will ask around as Charles Cook and his blue RR were well known and a fixture for years.

While it probably wasn't in nearly as bad a condition as the 20 HP you supplied the picture of, he did say it was a barn find of sorts and he spent years slowly nursing it back to health.

The one thing that really struck me about this car was just how silent the motor was. Far, far quieter than any of the V8s I've ever heard.

Brian

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