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Jeff Martin
Experienced User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 168
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 18 November, 2020 - 05:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So after 4 months of waiting, my new tires are only a few days away.
Here's a photo.
They were supposed to be void of a all lettering, but it's required that the DOT put what you see in place.
Still looks miles better then the ugly Michelin XCA and the Bib tire man on the side wall.
They should ride better too, the Michelin's were actually a farm tire rated at 10 ply.


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James Senior
New User
Username: jamess

Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2016
Posted on Monday, 22 March, 2021 - 01:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jeff,
I've been patiently waiting for you to upload a photo of these tyres on your car, only to re-read your message and realize you never said you would!

Any chance you could please?

Several people have suggested to me that we should switch from crossply to radial on our 1949 Silver Wraith, however I have noticed that they have always had cars with R16 wheels. Ours is R17 and I have never found anything, certainly not with the right look. If anyone has ever found something, please let me know!

All the best,
James
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 210
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Monday, 22 March, 2021 - 03:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Actually they're still not on the car yet, and probably won't be until 2022, the weather changed and by the time I got the rims ready, there was salt on the roads.
At the moment the trans is out and I still have to go over the front suspension as there is some uneven wear on my old tires, so with all that's going on, it may not even be on the road this summer, we'll see though.

No one has R17 inch tires that will look correct, they're all low profile tires, and if they are the right size, they're always crossply.

I would contact Diamond Back and see what they could do.
I know they can take any modern tire and remove all the ugly modern side-wall lettering, but you will still end up with a modern looking tread.

https://dbtires.com/
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James Senior
New User
Username: jamess

Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2016
Posted on Monday, 22 March, 2021 - 04:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Jeff,

good luck with all the various jobs you're undertaking judging by the other threads! Sadly I haven't been able to visit my folks for six months now, so there's been no work done on our car for a long time :-(

Thanks for link!
James
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 211
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Monday, 22 March, 2021 - 16:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If I had your car, I would switch to 16 inch rims and Diamond Back makes a 700R16 that should be tall enough and would look totally correct and period.

Depending on what size your 17 inch tires are, the 650R16's may even be the correct size.
What size are your 17 inch cross-ply tires ?
If you're running a 700/17, then they are about 31 inches tall, so a 750R16 would work, you would loose about .3 inches.
They also make a 750R16.

Here's a PDF of the actual sizes of what they have to offer, go to page 4 and 5.

https://dbtires.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/DBC-PSI-Press-Proof-3.pdf

Stay away from Coker Tire, the supplier of Diamond Back on the West Coast here in Canada used to carry them, they had so many problems that they stopped.
Many of the tires could not be balanced, some were very out of round too, sidewall separations as well.
The tires are actually made in the UK, Diamond Back tried to get someone in the US to manufacture them, but no one was interested.

About going to radial, it will transform your car, so it's worth it, a good tire shop will have to do a realignment for radial tires.
Make sure the front suspension is tight and free, check your needle bearings on the upper king pins and on the lower yoke as well.
The felt seals take on water and keep things wet if the Bijur oiling system fails.

Radials are more gentle on the suspension then cross ply, despite what people may say.
The stiff side wall of a cross ply doesn't give as much as radial tire.
The stiffness of the sidewall grab's the ruts of the road and jerks the suspension around, they don't absorb the pumps very well either, transferring all that jarring to the suspension.
It was OK back in the 50's when people travelled at only 50 miles hour, but not any more.
The soft sidewall of a radial tire absorbs the imperfections of the road, saving your suspension.
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James Senior
New User
Username: jamess

Post Number: 20
Registered: 09-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 24 March, 2021 - 06:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jeff,

I'm afraid it currently has two 6.00/6.50 17 Dunlop Forts on the rear and two 6.00/6.50 17 Michelin on the front. The latter were new maybe 10 years ago and are no longer available. The rears are older.

I'm afraid this is a car that sadly only gets driven 10s of miles a year, and never really exceeds 50 to 60 mph.

I guess what I'm saying is it isn't used enough to justify spending serious money on new rims (and presumably hubcaps).

So are you suggesting it might be possible to put a 650R16 on a R17 wheel?

Many thanks,
James
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 215
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 24 March, 2021 - 13:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No, not at all, you can't fit 16 inch tires on a 17 inch rim, or vise-versa.

Yes the tires are expensive, you would have to change out the rims to 16 inch, and the hub caps.

Your car needs to be driven more, I routinely drive mine at 60 to 70mph, hours on end.
With new radials you will have no problem cruising at 70, but with bias-ply's I can see that you may not want to go much faster the 55mph, especially if the sidewalls are cracked.

I'm OCD about things like this, if I needed new tires I would just bight the bullet and go for it, but then again I don't how deep your pockets are.
The tires in the first post came to 2000.00$ Canadian, so that would not be too far off from the Australian dollar, that was taxes and shipping all in.

Here's the thing though, it's a Rolls Royce, you can expect to pay more.

At one point I didn't want to pay a ransom's sum for tires, I had a set of 205/80r16 Pirelli Scorpion's meant for a Land Rover.
They were about the right size, but they looked awful. (they were half the price of the Diamond Backs, which is still expensive)

And then some Michelin XCA tires ate 650r/16, but they were farm truck tires with a 10 ply rating, those were the last tires that I had since the new ones in this thread.
I wasted more money compromising over the years, but then again when I first bought the car, there was nothing either except bias-ply.
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James Senior
New User
Username: jamess

Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2016
Posted on Thursday, 25 March, 2021 - 06:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes I'm afraid it does deserve to be driven more. However that's unlikely now my dad's in his late 70s, and drives less and less. For now all I can do is keep servicing it.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2431
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, 26 March, 2021 - 02:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I seem to remember that many manufactures vehicles fitted with cross ply tyres when new were not to be fitted with radials due to heavy steering and wear effects etc on ball joints and worm and peg steering boxes.
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 220
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Friday, 26 March, 2021 - 03:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If the car is sitting stationary, I suppose.
But really, no one should be turning the steering while the car is stationary, not even a modern car with power steering.
Even with power steering the whole system is still under stress while cranking the wheel while the the car is stationary.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2432
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, 26 March, 2021 - 05:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

From memory it was all about loading of the steering, suspension etc at low speeds with parking, excess wear steering box, king pin thrusts etc.
On the move king pin inclination and much more comes into play.

Must have a word with Tesla as the steering is set from on lock to straight ahead ready for summoned with out any rotation of wheels if you are correct this is wrong.
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JonasTRACHSEL
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 85.7.52.221
Posted on Friday, 26 March, 2021 - 03:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

James
You may google Excelsior Stahl Sport Radial tyres. They list 6.00/6.50 x 17" and 7.00/7.50 x 17" on their website. Check Max. Load Capacity and overall diameter to choose the correct size for your car. It is a radial tyre with the looks and height-to-width proportion of a crossply tyre.
I have Excelsior Stahl Sport on my 1932 R-R 20/25 HP and am pleased with them.
Jonas

(Message approved by david_gore)
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James Senior
New User
Username: jamess

Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2016
Posted on Friday, 26 March, 2021 - 07:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Jonas!
So such a thing does exist! I have saved the link for the future (car presently doing 0 miles per year during Covid...)
Of course now I've had it suggested that radials would require re-alignment, or not be a good idea at all, I'm less sure what to do - however I have been driven in a Mk VI which definitely handled like a modern car, rather than wallowing around the ruts like ours.
It'd be nice if something with the right look, like Jeffs, came along.
As I say, no rush at the moment!
James
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 222
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Saturday, 27 March, 2021 - 07:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That would be this one, not to be a wet blanket, but isn't that tread pattern a bit odd for a 49 Wraith ?

I did know about this tire, but I didn't mention it because of the tread pattern, would anyone know if the pattern is period for 49 ?

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/600-650r17-excelsior-stahl-sport-radial.html

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KEITH
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 124.168.119.119
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2021 - 18:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

hello

seeking advice for new tyres for 1951 Silver Dawn SDB-70.

mainly whether to go for original style Crossply, ed. AVON 670 x 16 TurboSpeed or Firestone Vintage 670 x 16, OR AVON TurboSteel 670 x 16 Radials ?

I understand the radial will give a softer ride? And will "track" better on uneven camber, tram rails, etc?

This must be a common dilemma with these cars, so appreciate owners experiences.

Cheers

keithjwherry@gmail.com


(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bill Vatter
Experienced User
Username: bill_vatter

Post Number: 143
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2021 - 13:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have Pirelli 215/80 R16 on my Mk VI. Same car as an early Silver Dawn.

I like them. They're tubeless and very close to correct height. Wider than original, but they don't touch anything. Radial does track better than cross ply.
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 283
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Friday, 03 September, 2021 - 16:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Don't even consider Crossply, they're horrible, yes, you will get used to the car wanting to drive itself, but once you get a taste of radials, there's no going back.

I had Bills' tires, they drive and handle well, but I think they are Pirelli Scorpions meant for a Range Rover ???
The sidewall is too modern and the tread is too aggressive looking.
Mine was a 205/80, so Bill's may be a different tire _ probably is.

It's not just our cars, any car, new or old, will not track well with crossply tires.

I wasted so much money over the years trying to save money by compromising looks and size, I was never really happy, so I bit the bullet and bought the Auburn Deluxe radials for 2000.00 Canadian for 4 tires.
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Richard Gray
New User
Username: mooney1el

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2016
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 00:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have Diamond Back radial white walls on my '52 Bentley Mk VI (B284PV) and the difference in performance from the old bias ply tires is phenomenal. Of course, I have rebuilt the front suspension (lower trunnion, upper silentblocs and kingpins) at essentially the same time as new tires.
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Martin Webster
New User
Username: martin_webster

Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2018
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 01:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What size are your Auburns Jeff and would you say they look authentic in the wheel arches and are they narrow enough not to rub on steering or suspension? Thanks,
Martin
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 284
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 02:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I haven't got them on the car yet, they took forever to be made and by the time I got them, I still had the trans out.
Car is still all in pieces due to the can of worms I opened up cleaning and painting.
I hope to get it back on the road before the weather gets ugly, and I will post photos and my thoughts.

As far as how they will look, given the fact that they are 650 R16, that is the correct size, the same as my old Michelins.
The DB are slightly wider and a little taller, but still plenty of room.
I'll take some photos.

Regardless, Richard has the White Walls, and in the same size, and it has to be, the next size up is 700 R16, that would be way too big.
They're designed to look like the old bias ply (cross ply) tires with the pie crust edge, so they will look totally authentic, only they are a radial, DB does not make cross ply tires.
Nice plain sidewall too, no ugly logo's !

See this photo.

The place where I got them form used to sell Coker brand, but they had many problems with them; out of round, and enough of them could not be balanced, so they dropped them.
Too many customer complaints.

They will be more narrow then Bill's 215, closer to the 205R 80's I had once, and still more narrow then that.

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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 285
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 02:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here are a couple of distributors in Australia, copied and pasted from the link in my first post.
Prices are un US dollars for both sites according to the info at Diamond Back.

https://www.antiquetyres.com.au/

https://antiquetyresonline.com.au/
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Richard Gray
New User
Username: mooney1el

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2016
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 02:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My tires are 6.50-16's and have no issues with steering or suspension rubbing. But, I must add that the spare does not fit while inflated so I carry a portable Ryobi compressor on the outside chance that I would need the spare.
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Martin Webster
New User
Username: martin_webster

Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2018
Posted on Saturday, 04 September, 2021 - 03:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the information regarding the Auburns. I have spoken to the UK distributor and 4 off 650R16 s work out at £1300 including tax which is approximately 2260 CAD . I am going to the supplier this week to have a look and will take my Blockley 6.50X16 as a comparison.
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Joe Marriott
New User
Username: 53rtype

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2023
Posted on Sunday, 15 January, 2023 - 22:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Welcome to the world of tomorrow! lol

Jeff, any more to the story of the Auburns? Thinking about going the same route, so to speak.
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 467
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2023 - 04:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have them on the car and they look absolutely correct !

Even the owner of my tire shop thought they were bias (cross) ply.

Sorry no photos, I did intend to take some, but kept forgetting, I was planning to park in front of this castle for a photo shoot and ran out of time.
I can try and take a photo in the garage, but the space is tight so it may not show very well.

For a 6.50 16, they are quite wide, almost resembling the width of a modern tire, but still look correct.
They actually look better being a bit wider then an old fashioned bias tire, the older tires appeared too narrow for such a large car, at least they did for me.

https://thecastle.ca/
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 469
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2023 - 09:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP




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Joe Marriott
New User
Username: 53rtype

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2023
Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2023 - 22:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Looks good! Are you able to go tubeless?
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Martin Webster
New User
Username: martin_webster

Post Number: 44
Registered: 09-2018
Posted on Monday, 16 January, 2023 - 23:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Is there much noise from the tyres on the road?
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 470
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Tuesday, 17 January, 2023 - 03:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Joe, yes, I've been running tubeless ever since I've been running radials.
I had the rims sand-blasted and asked the painter to put a heavier coat of primer and paint than usual where the rivets are _ it's been good for years.
After blasting I made sure there was no damage to where the tire bead seals, there were some burs that had to be filed off, and a bit of distortion here and there that required the use of a 10 pound hammer to put right. (then a bit more filing to smooth that out)

Martin, when I was driving the car around, the felt and carpets were out, so there was a fair amount of engine noise, but if there was tire noise, I didn't hear anything that was noticeable.
That tread pattern won't make much noise anyway, it's virtually a rib design.
If the pattern was similar to a snow tire or what is used on an ATV, then yes, it would be very noisy, but that would be defeating the purpose of a Bias-Ply radial.

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