| Author | Message | |||
     Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi, everybody After having changed the spaks plugs, air filter and checked wires and distributor cap, (engine is running as a clock ! !) I have to change the oil filter. The « problem » is : the oil is quiet good because it was changed when I’ve got the car…only 500km and 6 month ago. But oil filter didn’t been changed since a long time I guess….so I have just to change the filter. For this, can I change only the filter, opening the cartridge and fitinng the new (and sure, after, complete again the nivel with new oil) or must I change all the oil, opening the slump before ? If I can change only and directly the filter, can I do it with engine and oil cold, or must I drive as usualy to heat the oil ? and: to collect the oil : when I’ll opening the cartridge to change the filter, can I have oil droping only by the axe (maintening the cartridge a short time)), or will the cartridge open and oil droping by all this ? thanks for answer ! by serge | |||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 101 Registered: 8-2003 |
Serge; Six months is more than long enough to keep the oil, 3 months is better. Miles do not mean all that much on a car that gets little or short driving. Condensation collects in an engine and short infrequent trips will not heat the engine enough to get the water out. Besides, you would have a fair mess trying to change just the filter as oil would be running out on you all the time you are attempting the filter swamp. For future I would NEVER recommend changing only the oil and not the filter. If for no other reason you are leaving maybe a quart of dirty old oil in the filter that contaminates your fresh oil. Best regards, Bill | |||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 102 Registered: 8-2003 |
To all; While on the subject of oil changes, my ’76 Shadow (SRE23726) has the cartridge type filter. I really dislike this and would prefer the spin on filter used on other years. Can this be converted without much trouble? Kindest regards, Bill | |||
| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi William, thanks for answer. My poor english doesn't permit me to understand all you say; and principaly, I have sensation to haven't answer at my problem...wich is: can I changed directly and only the oil filter opening the swamp (and so, wich quantity of oil will flow and how ?) or must I proced as normaly, as I should have all oil to change ? (I want to try to do only this because I have a very tighdy garage, without way to go under the car or lift it, so I'm obliged to creep under as I can and the oil slump isn't so easy to reach as the filter - and if I could save some quantity of oil, it would be better for "ecologie/sourround") Sure, if I want to change my filter know, that's because I know that you always have to change the filter in the same time with oil ! I'll never do it because I know you take risk for engine, and the filter is very cheap and seems easy to change ! But I didn't choice how I've got the car when I've bought it.... By the way, I havent answer at your problem. sorry. | |||
| Robert Chapman Prolific User Username: shadow Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hi Serge, If you can't lift your car and get under safely (supported by stands) then don't try to change the filter.You will find it very difficult to refit it correctly with the car on the ground.I think Bills advice is very good,you should change the oil as well,6 months is long enough. | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 150 Registered: 4-2003 |
To convert to the later spin-off filter you need assembly UE 38073, maybe secondhand from a SSII. Also suitable are UE43392 or UE43393. This is the adaptor housing which bolts to the block and replaces the canister housing. You may open the attachment in Microsoft Word to see the drawing. As you can see, the modification is very straightforward and strictly bolt-on. You would have to make sure that the pressure switch and sender threads fit properly or replace them with later ones, but I believe they are correct anyhow. If you have no pressure gauge, you may need a bolt to blank the sender hole, but that is very easily done. I considered this for our T-Series a few years ago. The spares guy said "why bother ? It saves very little time and creates just as much mess ", so I didn't bother. I must admit he was correct, as I find it just as quick and easy as my Turbo R. The difference is that you get to see if any sludge has collected in the canister. Cleaning the cannister up only takes a jiffy. You need an oil pan underneath regardless of filter type when changing them.
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| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi, thanks for answer and advoices. I didn't mean that 6month was enought for the oil !! when I check the level, it is yet clear and seems fresh, not dark... and I'll try to find to level a litlle the car... thanks again by serge | |||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2003 |
Serge; Sorry you didn't understand my post. Do NOT change only filter change both filter and oil every time and not more than 6 months. Oil can be recycled. Regards, Bill | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.122 |
Serge; I am about to fit to my 1970 S/Shadow, the oil filter/adaptor console from a 78 SS11 to allow installation of the spin on filter. I KNOW this will be easier, quicker and cheaper (No silly cork "cones" washers/seals which you DONT get in aftermarket R-R cartridge filter packs) combined with improved efficiency as opposed to cartridge "insert" filters. I need only compare to the modified spin on arrangement on my "R" type "Bentley" (Thanks, Bill Vatter!) and re-iterate my offer to donate $2000 to any charity if ANYONE/ANYWHERE can change a cartridge "insert" type filter in a time less than the time involved to fit a spin on filter to a S/Shadow or "R" type so modified. No... make the bet $3000. The bet is $3000, Ladies and Gentlemen. $3000 is on the table now. | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2003 |
John, Sorry, but I simply cannot understand your obsession with spin-off filters, our having two Bentleys with canisters and one with a spin-off filter to compare the relative merits long-term. I can assure you that there is not much in it at all. I can think of many more worthwhile updates that take priority. I cannot see any merit in rushing a very short job anyhow. It's not a competition is it ? Anyhow, I have already posted the part numbers and diagrams for those who wish to change filter types. OK, the R-Type may arguably benefit from a revised filter, but I have my doubts. The original full-flow filters always did a good job and their efficacy has never been questioned other than those protagonists of spinn-off modifications. For the Shadow/T, I checked two years ago on the filtration qualities of each type. The canister actually has a larger flow capacity, a benefit with synthetic oils, and the same microns of filtration as the spin-off. There is no filtration benefit with a spin-off type. Many aftermarket spin-off filters I have seen are physically smaller than the genuine ones too, and have an even lower capacity, but why risk experimenting with aftermarket filters ? Furthermore, the canister is, you will probably find depending on the final configuration, easier to remove and more accessable. You only need a simple ring spanner. The only extra time is in cleaning the canister up and fitting the o-ring correctly. Tightening correctly is more positive using a spanner. The spin-off filters are a little awkwardly placed and fiddly to remove using a standard filter remover because of the hardware surrounding these filters, at least on my Turbo R compared to the T-Series. Also, the filter change is hardly critical time-wise, even if you could save a few minutes on the filter while the oil is draining. Setting up for the job takes far longer (jack, stands, blocks, pit or hoist), and the oil spillage is much the same. Draining the oil needs much more time as you must wait until draining is complete, so unless you have something else to do for those possible minutes you'll just be hanging around. Price difference ? Genuine canister filters cost just £2 more at £10 instead of £8. Both come complete with all o-rings etc and a new sump washer. I am all in favour of certain modifications, particularly in safety areas. However, I am detecting an unhealthy accelerating trend in making numerous unnecessary modifications, often just to save a few miserable dollars, and I have seen some real shockers. Also, I patronise Crewe spares wherever possible to encourage the factory to continue to offer us all correct original spares. | |||
| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi Richard; I John, I'm not specialy a "purits", but I agree 1000 times with richard: as we haven't a RR to make racing and competition on the road, but to drive gently, I feel in harmony with the majority (well, I guess !) from RR owners who have a such prestigious car to maintain it as original as possible. The challenge shouldn't be to modify in fact, details, but to preserve original parts on the cars, according with the english spirit of RR ! and in all this, I think too that contribue to mainting alieve a part of Crewe is the most important for future. I have a personnal challenge: to understand more and more "my" car, to work more and more on it. I feel happy and, by the way, spend hours of mechanics ! (in france and paris, they ask us 60euros=72us$/hour). for exemple, this 3 last weeks, I've change the first main exhaust (I have to remove and refit the "Y" down pipe before !!), air filter, spark plugs and will change differencial and engine oil with the oil filter next WE...in the condition I have to work (tighdy garage and car on the floor) and regarding the fact that when I bought the car (last september), I didn't know nothing about his work, I'm very proud (and have spend more money (quiet 9 hours) as if I have change the paper oil filter to another) ! by the way, Richard, I have made a mystake when I've change the exhaust parts and have an extra RR stainless steel new "Y" down pipe for shadow 1 from 1970/1977 to sell (160euros with taxes+ about 45euros shipping): did the forum have a space for that ? thanks by serge | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.198 |
Thank you Richard. If I am guilty of an obsession I sincerely hope that I never have to admit that it was occasioned by something as inert and mundane as an oil filter, of any type!. Yes, I am sure that you have a personal opinion as to what constitutes "worthwhile" updates, however I am somewhat more interested in retro fitting,where possible (having regard to practicality/tech. viability etc) FACTORY modifications/upgrades as progressively introduced in later production. The introduction of the spin on filter with the Shadow 2 (1977) is a noteworthy example and was presumably successful, given its continuance up until the present time, a passage of some 27 years!. You declare that the original (cannister) type filter "always did a good job and their effectiveness has never been questioned except other than by protagonists of the spin on type". You go on.."there is no benefit with the spin on type". Well excuse me, but whilst YOU may not have questioned the relative merits of the differing types, the actual designer of the R-R V8 (A.J "Jack" Phillips) did in fact express some reservations in the early 60s, soon after the introduction of "his" V8. I quote from a white paper titled "The Institution of Mechanical Engineers", sub title; "Proceedings of the Automobile Division",Location; Midland Hotel, Derby, Date 27/3/62, Subject; The Design History of a V8 Engine", Speaker; A.J.Phillips and dated 1961-62 - Number 9. This particular publication recorded the proceedings of the meeting, at which time Mr. Phillips accepted questions (relative to the "new" R-R V8) from his fellow professional engineers (92 incl.observers) one of which concerned lubrication; always being an important topic. At page 350, para 3, he said, "the filter was a full flow filter,felt type (i.e separate CARTRIDGE) because it filtered adequately and has a reasonable life", adding later, "there were plenty of filters that filtered better etc". These comments appear, in retrospect, to be suggestive of a compromise (at production or pre-production) given the use of the words "adequate/reasonable and better etc." and are perhaps indicative of what was readily available at that time,notwithstanding that spin on filters were well represented in U.S domestic production at that stage. It is evident that the factory took from 1960 (and about the time of Mr. Phillips observations) until 1977 to effect more modern means of oil filtration in the Shadow 2. My "Porsche' 356 (mnfd. up until 1965) incorporated a cannister filter, whereas my later (1972) 911 (introduced in 1966) featured a spin on filter,so it would seem that some mnfrs.(usually the smaller ones) not suprisingly, took a little longer to adopt changes which generally reflected commercial and technical reality, typically viewed as progress. As for relative costs; Genuine R-R cartridge type with all the fussy widgets, about A$80. Non-Genuine, U.K, "Crossland" cartridge without the fiddly bits, aboutA$35, plus around $4 for the bits, equals approx. A$40. Now the GOOD news.. a "Crossland" spin on (you dont need the widgets!) comes in at about A$28. Such a deal and reduced dry cleaning bills to boot! As for time, I agree the process is not a time trial/competition, however I only respond to continual assertions that the cartridge type filter is "just as quick (and by inference as easy) to change as a spin on type". In this regard, I invite ambitious devotees of this theory, to consider my (increased) wager/offer, should they feel so courageous as to accept the challenge. As for cleanliness of the respective operations in terms of spillage(drips/spills) and/or leaks, the question hardly merits any serious debate, but dont accept my clean cuffs/wrists and garage floor (drip tray too!) in evidence. Simply ask various professional auto technicians/mechanics who work on these cars every day. | |||
| Pat Lockyer Unregistered guest Posted From: 213.122.95.167 |
For the record and to collect the loot. Just returned from London in SS2 oil hot so oil+filter change carried out,filter to hot to handle twelve Min's to be able to handle job done fourteen Min's. Same trip last week SS1 oil+filter change hot, use air tool,replace sealing rings clean cannister fit new filter, twelve Min's. This is of course with out the nonsense magnet clip on's | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.93 |
Thank you Pat. As Mr.Tracy recently pointed out, you need a ring spanner (or I suppose a socket etc.) for the cannister filter and for the spin on unit, you need a special tool (remove magnetic clip on first, which takes 0.5 sec!) which, like the ring spanner, will allow easy removal and you dont have to touch the hot filter with your hands, although most pros. wear work gloves these days. That is in part, due to Occupational Health and Safety Regs. which I imagine also exist in the U.K to guard against dermatitis and the suspected carcinogenic properties of some petroleum based products. To protect yourself, you need invest in a new spanner (for the spin on) and I often see these advertised by leading U.K suppliers, and at a very modest price I might add. But dont tell everyone, for if you let the cat out of the bag, then EVERYONE will want one! | |||
| Pat Lockyer Unregistered guest Posted From: 81.131.30.118 |
John,yes we do use latex gloves filter still has to cool down. yes we do have many universal tools for the removal of spin on's, spanner not much good for the crosland 343 that you refer to. picture to follow with luck. | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.88 |
Thank you Pat, firstly for the picture via e-mail of your Shadow 1 which appears to be a nice example, and if I may, I will reciprocate in due course, with a photo of mine (SRH 8058) affectionately known (by me) as the "Golden Shadow" due to its original color. I am not sure why you included a separate picture of the SS11, spin on filter unit (where is your magnetic "clip on"?) except perhaps that you were questioning the unsuitability of a "spanner" (so called) being used to engage this type of filter for removal. I have (for spin-ons) used a "strap" type filter "wrench" but prefer a large,pressed steel, "flange" type end socket which would be familiar to you. Without wanting to engage in verbal gymnastics, I previously used the term, spanner, demonstrably, noting that my Chambers Dictionary (1979) at page 1295,describes a Spanner thus.." a wrench for nuts,screws, ETCETERA". Further, my Concise Oxford (again 1979) at page 1348, conversely describes a Wrench viz.. " implement like a spanner to turn nuts,bolts, ETCETERA". Ergo, the question is hardly a wrenching one to ponder into the next millenium. As for those latex gloves, I have heard that medicos sometimes use them for less than pleasant procedures, but for use on hot metal in a workshop, I have considerable doubts as to their practical effectiveness. | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.134.151.78 |
From the "Cradle" of ENGLAND; refer RREC club bulletin issue no. 263 at page 50, lower left corner. Article by the respected consultant, Tony James, refers, in part, to S/Dawn/"R" type oil filters. Whilst indicating a personal preference for originality, he states, Quote; "I could of course, replace the entire oil filter assembly with a modern kit complete with MODERN spin-on cartridge, which would make future changes of filter a SIMPLE and SPEEDY process". Unquote. Quite so, just like the same conversion for a Shadow 1, ie a Shadow 11 FACTORY update! Remember, dear readers that you read about SIMPLICITY AND SPEED (delivered by spin-ons) in THIS forum first, see my previous posts and tireless effforts to convince the Jonahs and non-believers! | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2003 |
Exercising your freedom of speech again, John ? Spin-off filters indeed, à la 1964 EH Holden. ".. in THIS forum first, see my previous posts and tireless effforts to convince the Jonahs and non-believers!" Ahem. Conversion kits have been around for our Crewe cars for years. The RREC forum covered this long ago, and their Bulletins have had decades-old articles about this, as do ancient RROC Inc Flying Lady aticles. Do you have proper 3-point inertia-reel seat belts front and rear with reinforced door pillars to cope, halogen headlamps, battery isolator switches and fire extinguishers on all your cars, and head restraints front and rear on the newer cars ? I hope so. Regards, Jonah. | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.54.44.195 |
The message that I had always hoped would filter through (EVENTUALLY) was that, YES.. "spin-on" type filter conversions for Mk6/"R"type AND S/Shadow,provide a SIMPLE and SPEEDY process compared to the old, albeit "original" cartridge insert type. My contention has now been fully endorsed and my position entirely vindicated by a RECOGNIZED expert/consultant as engaged/retained by R.R.E.C IN ENGLAND i.e WHERE it all began. WHERE the cars were actually produced. WHERE one would expect to find the REAL "authorities" so to speak. As for fitting/adapting ALL factory upgrades/modifications, I do not recall ever advocating such a policy, for if one did, then in theory, a Silver Shadow would ultimately mutate into a Seraph would it not?. For those who missed it... page 50 (lower left) in the current issue (no. 263) of the respected and authorative (It really is!) R.R.E.C bulletin. ENJOY!... I know I did! | |||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 158 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yes. The article is named "The Artful Bodger". Tony decided against a spin-off anyhow, and complained how many of these cars have had silly cartridges stuffed into the canister to save a few pounds. He stated that "the original design is perfectly adequate to preserve the well-being of the engine". The man I respect most for R-Types, incidentally in the UK, does not have a spin-off filter by they way. By the way, I changed my Turbo R filter last night. It reminded me that the canister on the '72 T-Series is far more accessible and easier to remove and fit, with the spillage directly downwards and not all over the front spoiler and engine. I can assure you I have changed both types of filters numerous times and have no particular loyalty to either type. I suggest that you have a look at a SSII before you take the step and change filter types. On my BMW its worse: I cannot remove the filter hot as it hides behind the exhaust manifold, so at least the SSII-Turbo R has some advantage over that car. In any case, it is hardly worthwhile getting wound up about a mere oil filter. There are always pros and cons to any arrangement. The R Type cars have many party tricks to show off, as do the later cars, and they all contribute to the unique package in my humble opinion. Many of the features are not optimal by any means, and many people change some features. How about: rearward opening front doors, that little chunk of glass on the quarter vent to drain water outwards, the oil filter, the oil filler flap, rear blind, invisible heated rear window, oddball mechanical servos, mechanical rear brakes, unique vibration dampers, side exhaust valves, ride control, flat floors, twin points, aluminium fuel tank, centralised chassis lubrication, and the list goes on. Leave my canister alone ! | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.54.44.195 |
Hardly fair, if at all relevant, to compare ease of accessibility of a cannister oil filter on a pre 1977 "R-R/B", to the spin on type on a Turbo R or (worse)a BMW/whatever. Let us compare apples with apples here (not apples with bananas OR watermelons!) by comparing a pre 1977 cannister car AGAINST one fitted with a later SS11 console/adaptor (with spin on filter), OR, say, a "R-R/B" (Dawn/Mk6/"R" type) with an original cannister, compared TO one so modified with a spin on arrangement as offered by Bill Vatter. I have, with considerable reservation (Its embarrassing!) asked various "R-R" specialists (qualified ones) re ease of change of the respective types, and I have had to await the answer/s until AFTER the laughter. I did say it was embarrassing!. So, apart from my own experience with the spin on (SIMPLE and SPEEDY!) on both "R" type and 1970 Shadow (as modified) together with overwhelming agreement from long experienced R-R auto. mechanics (and today, FINAL endorsement from a recognized authority in ENGLAND!) I now KNOW that indeed I have received the "good oil" as one might say, and remain happy to "go with the flow". Others, of course are free to proceed as they may, for freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. Rather like freedom of speech. | |||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.250 |
Back again.. its all SO easy!. Just sold a MINT condition Cyl.block to a SS11 owner as his was unserviceable, doubtless due to cracks etc. I suspect this will not be a problem on future 6.75 L V8s now that VW are in charge, given that I never had a cracked crankcase or head (either) on my old VW 1500 or my current "Porsche" 356!. Anyway, I salvaged the SSOOFC (Superlative Spin On Oil Filter Console) from the block and NOW it resides on my 1970 Shadow, complete with a "Aeroquip" type hose plumbed therein and leading to a nice mechanical (it WORKS!) oil pressure gauge on the dash, being the feature so miserably deleted by the factory so many years ago. I dont know how they could have lived with themselves. And what conversion would be complete without "Filter-Mag"?. Worry NOT dear friends for it is so fitted as with my "R" type and the Range Rover to follow. With all the TIME I will save, not to mention virtually NO mess, I might have time for an extra round of golf. Life WAS meant to be EASY! |
