| Author | Message | ||
     Jason Watson Yet to post message Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2023 |
Hi all, I'm perhaps not your traditional car enthusiast, and I'm a late starter at 52. I have been exposed to RR Ghosts and P1, P11 for some years now through my father in-law. To me though a proper RR is a factory motor and body combined, not half-half so to speak. I have become interested in a possible Silver Dawn made available thorough family. Think I have the wife over the line as she is a little scarred from her childhood experiences around old treasures as she calls them. I have started reading books like Anthony Bird and Ian Hallows "The Rolls Royce Motor Car", plus a few others I can't recall the details. On the weekend I had had the joy of viewing and touching one in the flesh which I have to say left men even more taken with this car. I love its size, its lines, its funtionality, that I can fix it or have the chance to, that only 760 were made, and only 116 were imported in Australia. What I'd like to ask the board, is why, in your view, doesn't this car attract greater interest as a collectible. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2330 Registered: 05-2012 |
My personal view is that people who buy classic cars tend to buy ones that were popular during their teens, partly for nostalgic reasons and also because they were cool cars to have at that time. This explains why 80s Fords (Escort RS, Sapphires etc) are going for such high prices. I think going forward cars like 50s Rolls Royces, Jaguars etc will be "re-discovered" and attract much greater interest. If I were offered a Silver Dawn at an attractive price I would definitely buy it. I drive a 74 Silver Shadow and am amazed how it drives like a modern car even though it is 50 years old. I've spent a few thousand on it over the past 10 years, mainly because I'm an enthusiast, but when I total it all up, it amounts to around $50 per month - that's a really low cost pastime. A 50s Rolls Royce - yes - I could do that. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks Geoff and think you are right there. I have a soft spot for an 72 XA GT, but there are many reasons I can't go there. Can't say I had a care for a RR until I hung around the father in law and listened to his stories of interest. Driving in his 20s and 30s cars its always humbling how far RR had come. I'm also reminded however of where we are today. Perhaps this Dawn being an auto, bit more spacious for the driver, better brakes, suspension, easier to drive is my comfort zone. I understand this Dawn is complete and in fine condition. It gets driven monthy but has sucum to heating issues. I'd like to drive the car rather than use it as a shed warmer, so job No 1 would be adressing that as we get aquatinted. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2023 |
So sniffing around RROC's web site, this site and the web generally Bentley VI is mentioned far more than RR Silver Dawn. I presume so as the Bentley was made in far more numbers, user focused, and has less status then RR is marketed at. Also imagine Bentley owners are happier getting grease under their nails compared RR owners, even though the Dawn was marketed to appeal to the owner driver. As it happens I more than likely have a red hot chance of acquiring a Bentley VI alternatively to the Dawn. Though its running on road it needs work. The RR will need work also but far far less. The RR also has all its bits and bobs and desirable spec. If apples were apples, and buy and repair price roughly equaled for both. I'd would think a RR would be a better investment to the Bentley. OR is it so given they are both 50's vehicles of a diminishing stock, either would do. anyone care to comment | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 513 Registered: 07-2018 |
I would stay away from the Dawn because of the automatic _ dreadful jerky things, at least the one I had where I restored the brakes for a RR member. Over-heating is common, they sit with old coolant in them when stored for years or even decades and that's where the corrosion happens. Block gets all silted up and aluminum disappears in the head and becomes thin. If I had to do this again, I would take the body off the front, remove the head, the casting plates on the block, the rear drain and chip out the silt. New water pump, recore the rad and anything else that needs repair or replacement. Brakes: Servo always needs attention from oil contamination and glazing _ just replace the liner. Master cylinder is usually pitted as well from hygroscopic brake fluid sitting in there for years _ same for front wheel cylinders. Mechanical rears can get seized. Front suspension can be worn to bits if the Bijur system has failed or not used. On the standard, the flexible oil line from the trans to the frame can leak and pump out all the trans oil _ this can cause burnt synchro cones _ ask me how I know. Take the standard for a drive, it's not fast shifting _ pause for 1/2 a second in neutral before putting it in gear, and it should slip in easily. Go find a steep hill and test 2nd and 3rd gear under heavy load, if it jumps out of gear, then that's majour work. If the Bentley has the quick release oil filler cap and the full flow oil filter with the single nut on top, then that's the one to go for, that will be a 4.5 litre _ better then the 4.25. It should also have twin pipes right from the front. The RR can also have the larger engine in it _ known as a big bore Dawn. See this thread about the manual trans. http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/16999/41017.html?1661678835 | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 514 Registered: 07-2018 |
This is interesting, note the bake-lite oil cap, indicating that it's most likely a 4.25 litre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUs_gN4KTcc | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks Jeff, don't get wrong. I have owned english engineering before and to be honest if one wants a decent hassle free car, one would do well to acquire something Japanese. I fully expect it to stop unwarranted, leak oil, and do random stuff, just hopefully not often. Have read up on the heating issues, so yes the motor may be coming out as the first job. Both cars have the colonial spec, The Bentley is a 51 manual 4.25lt, the Dawn a 54 auto 4.5lt. The Bentley has served as a family tourer though has slowed with use in the last 10-15 or so years. The Dawn has been a shed warmer for much of its life, however the past 10 years has been driven monthly to turn things over. The Dawn is also owned by a pretty savvy mechanical minded soul. It is a little daunting as I’m not overly mechanical minded, and I’m sure there is a Bentley or RR tax to be paid every time one needs assistance. Thanks for the links, I have something to do for tonight now. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2023 |
Gee Jeff looking at some of those prices to sort your gear box issues is similar to owning trucks. I'm starting to wish I paid more attention to my late fathers mechanical skills, and will start to with my father in-laws engineering and lathe knowledge. A credit to you having a crack and succeeding with your gear box repair. Well done! The link to the Bentley chassis, ol mate there has done fine job, and great to see how it was on the sales floor. But not for me. If thats the undercarriage than I can only assume how paranoid one may become with the body. For me the car was made to be driven, and driven regularly. Designed for freedom, experiences and pleasure. And if your not than move it on to the next custodian. Each to their own I guess as ol mate may find the same, but mothballing a car is like caging an animal in my mind, no matter how rare. Its clear if these cars are in good order they can go. The Bentley has done multiple 4500km round trips from Brisbane to Adelaide in its day. With the kids in the back! | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 515 Registered: 07-2018 |
I drive mine and the body is full of paint chips, I keep the undercarriage painted and clean (engine bay too)because I hate working on filthy dirty cars. I try not to drive it in the rain; crumby demist system and lousy wipers so I avoid it. When I belonged the RR club, it rained all weekend long on one meet. The Sea to Sky Hwy. to Whistler on the west Coast here in Canada _ dark and windy (curvy), with cross ply tires, construction going on, poorly lit. About 2 hours later my buddy and I got to the top, I was wiped out _ worse drive ever. I drive it hard at 60 and 70 mph, and 21,000 miles later the inside of the engine is still as clean as if I just re-did the engine yesterday, aside from the combustion chambers, but only a film of soot, no big hunks of carbon. In your case I would not be able to choose between the 2 cars, I hate the auto, but would want the 4.5 over the other. Did anyone upgrade the Bentley to a full flow oil filter ? | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 10 Registered: 07-2023 |
I think if the Dawn is as complete as it’s reported, I'll probably go the dawn. My father in law doesn't like driving his ghost, or in particular the phantom 11 either as they are handful and require much concentration. I guess nothing is as easy as a modern car and why thing have evolved. When I spied the windscreen wipers, piddly vents, you kind of know its not going to be great in the rain. Just weird from a country as wet as England. New set of 205/80/156 Michelin radials for me I think, don’t care how original cross plys are they are just bad. Tyres are the only thing keeping you on the road. I imagine the heads lights are like candles, and driving in the rain is difficult at best, down right dangerous at night, and the car most likely leaks as well. The threat of rain should not be a show stopper in most cases though. Both cars have "colonial spec" witch I think is an export spec to colonies if they were imported into that country at the time, ie an Australian order. Not a private import from UK or elsewhere. That spec has bigger radiator, air cleaner, and a few other things I can’t recall at present. I expect the auto to be dozy, as the whole car in general. They are not made for performance, rather quiet comfort with reliability. Right. I’m wondering could your disliking for the auto, come from an auto that needed servicing? I had a hydromatic in a 64 Holden and it ran ok, but sounded like a dying cow as it revved up to change to a higher gear. I admit it was a bit slow on the changes for a 17 year old. Shame they are not a 2 speed powerglide. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 519 Registered: 07-2018 |
I would like to see those tires, the tread pattern and sidewall, I had that odd size (for Canada) in a Pirelli Scorpion, but they never looked right, way to rugged and meaty for the car. Do you have a link or some photo's ? Colonial Spec: it may have a small highspeed pulley on the water pump and a special fan that measures 17.25 inches with part number R19078 See this: https://kda132.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Cylinder-Blocks.pdf The head was redesigned with more coolant holes, but don't hold me to that. Probably the most important feature is the crank on the 4.5 litre was redone so it's critical harmonic vibration was designed out at a speed where no one would usually drive. The 4.25 litre's critical vibration harmonic was right at 60 some miles per hour, so if the dampener failed or was out of adjustment, there was potential for catastrophic failure of the crank. This vibration could be felt while driving at that critical speed if the dampener was giving problems. There could have been something very well wrong with that car that I had concerning the trans, but it did cruse along at 70mph quite nicely. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yes agree the tread patten or chunkiness can adjust the look. They are for SUV’s but look like highway terrain in aggressiveness. Think they would ride far better than a light truck tyre, and are 4mm under original diameter. So good maintaing the speedo accuracy as well. http://https://www.michelin.com.au/auto/tyres/michelin-latitude-cross Colonial spec consists of larger radiator, larger fan, larger air filter, larger oil filter with upgraded lines, larger generator, upgraded springs front and rear, stronger chassis, and larger bumper bars. Apparently famers took a liking to the product but the dirt roads and corrugations caused RR some issues. I imagine a smaller fan pulley would not be far from the wants list after a good radiator and block flush. Have read installing a coolant reservoir, blocking the by pass in the thermostat, and upgrading the radiator cap to a 5psi cap to pressuring the cooling system is well with the effort. Then if your still keen perhaps a fan shroud of the radiator. Thanks for the link, its good web site that one. But like all of them its easy to mist bits and bobs. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2023 |
Maybe these, thay look more passive. Still 205/80/16 http://https://www.dunloptyres.com.au/tyres/dunlop/dunlop-grandtrek-tg32 | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 521 Registered: 07-2018 |
The continental Vanco 2 look pretty good. That Michelin is a bit rugged, but as with all modern tires, there's too much info on the sidewall _ never liked that. The Vanco 2 don't have too much of a busy sidewall. https://www.tyremart.co.za/product/michelin-latitude-cross-20580r16-load-104-speed-t/ I went with these, they look so correct, but expensive _ I wasted more money doing compromises that I couldn't accept in the end, then if I had just gone out and bought what I should have in the first place. Coker Tire is another one, but there have been problems with being out of round, and difficult to balance. See this thread what I have on the car now: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/16999/40748.html?1673891453 | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2023 |
Wow Jeff you nailed it, those Auburn Deluxe are correct in so many ways. And Radials! Guess the price is what it is if you are chasing a look that is close to correct. I tend to find these days after dropping $1200 on a steer, and $600 on a drive trye for trucks, the price of tyres doen't resonate anymore. I'm liking that you didn't go the white wall option. I just can't see the ? in them but each to theior own. Actually if there was one wish I have for the Dawn, would be full size wheel spats. Not sure what's going with the halfa. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 523 Registered: 07-2018 |
While I don't mind them on a black car and it works on others, I do not like WW's on a 2 tone light coloured car. It just looks cheap and tacky to me, like a pimp-mo-bile. My photo shop skills are not great, but you get the idea. (and that is not my house, that's where I used to work)   | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 524 Registered: 07-2018 |
and this mint green car _ you can see the problem with the body lines with a full skirt. The rear fender would have to come down _ I don't know what one would do. I think I do like the full skirt look though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRD75kK84tk I left a comment on the wood _ not so kind, but it is not very good, and it looks like that door skin wood. Lots of skill in the leather and body department, but not wood. I do not like the leather headliner, it's just too much, the English broad cloth would have been classier.  | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 16 Registered: 07-2023 |
Well I’ll be, your Bentley is similar in colour to the one I am talking about. Its a short boot with the air vent infant of the windscreen. The Dawn is a long boot with foot vents, think that all happened 53 onwards. Brown interior? I don’t mind your photo shop skills. I like the spat too, and agree the lines of the rear quarter and in front of the wheel would make it hard to look right. Then it will always not be right because it never was. Still great to see a mock up so to speak, sometimes it looks completely different to whats in the head. Not sure where to start with the car in the link, maybe FAIL. Wonder if it has heating issues lol, poor thing. Perhaps the spats are a reasonable effort but really its another one that didn’t make it. The Dawn is Midnight Blue with dark blue interior. I have collected images of 9 different ways you can paint these things. The lines are so giving and all the combos look good, you just have to jag the colours. I’m stuck with blues as the interior is blue, but I quite like a lighter metallic blue over the solid midnight blue. Not sure of the etiquette around models, years, and colours. Or if its a RR colour it doesn’t matter. Or if its your car who cares, but like the car in the link it can go horribly wrong. How good are you on Photoshop, want to have a crak? | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2023 |
So you take a Midnight Blue Silver Dawn  and add a bit of Carribbean Blue from a Silver Shadow  | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2023 |
Man this site is clunky. Can't upload the other pic, But light blue would run over the bonnet, along the doors and sills, and over the rear guard. Fron fenders, roof, and boot remain Midnight Blue. No expectation, just if you were bored with your recovery. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4210 Registered: 04-2003 |
Jason, Yes this site may be "clunky" given its age but there is a choice: !. Keep using the present software despite its limitations and retain access to the priceless Forum archives that exist from many and varied contributions from members over the years. 2. Set up a new forum using new software with all the associated "bells and whistles" at the cost of losing ALL the forum archives referred to in Option 1 as they cannot be reformatted to be accessible by modern software. Our Administrator who provides this forum at his own expense has elected to go with Option 1 to preserve and protect these archives. . | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 525 Registered: 07-2018 |
I personally like this site, there's no advertising !! One just has to remember to resize the photo's no larger then 800x800 _ I use a free software, Paint.Net. I think Windows has some photo editing software that can do the same. Yeah, Windows Paint, it gives one the choice of file size or pixels. Jason, making an entire car a different colour is beyond me, or lets just say I don't want to delve into it. My skills at photo shop is photo restoration, like getting rid of the big crease on and Grandma's face. I find the Dawns' and Mark VIs' don't look good in solid light colours, metallic's seem OK. Or if you want a solid colour, then 2 tone seem to look good. There was a member who had his painted the blue like in a Delft piece of China, it did nothing for the car. My opinion, but I didn't like it. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2023 |
David, good to see you lurking, you must have something to contribute in regards to Silver Dawns? All good Jeff, thought I'd chuck it out there as one never knows. I have not had a look for free software to mix and match colours on cars. You'd think there would be something on the WWW, otherwise I'll find a uni student savvy with photoshop. You really have to get it right the first time, paint jobs are too expansive not to. Blue would not be my first choice either interior or exterior. With a blue interior I'm struggling to think of combinations outside silver over black (bit over done), silver over midnight blue (perhaps the same), or two tone blue (dangerous territory). Not sure if you put a similar depth of midnight blue but in metallic with a lighter blue metallic would work, or too muck metallic. Maybe too much blue. Wrong era etc. I heard a judge at a RR meet recently suggest the pin stripe should be the colour of the interior. Don’t think blue over blue with a blue pin stripe going to cut the mustard. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 20 Registered: 07-2023 |
The owner of this Bentley destined for sale told me he has it insured for 35K. Later he let it slip he paid $1000 for it some 26 or so years ago. I made some probing joke about offering $5000 and he can keep the family memories as a bonus. It was completely ignored and I hope I didn’t offend. But it needs work and if you work on 10k a paint job, 10K an interior, 10K mechanicals assuming the motor is pretty good, 10k for 10ks sake than a renovated car soon surpasses a higher priced complete low milage original. That is if you are working on 20-30K to buy the thing in the first place. Father in law suggest this Dawn would be around 45-50. Few owners, desired spec, Colonial spec, VGC, and been run regularly each month for some time now. I still expect somewhere in there up-to 10K will be wanting. Then its my call to paint it. It doesn’t bother me no one of any notoriety or fame has had no relationship with it. I was also leaning 50+ as I was seeing higher prices but none that really reflected 2022-2023. I also starting to ponder if to bother at all as the wife said we can spend that money elsewhere. Doesn’t that put a dampener on things when the wife comes out with comments like that. Then this jigger shows up. A good example and not really what I’m chasing, but a reasonable guide on price I think. Any comet on 10K interior, or is 10 actually 15 in 2023. Mechanicals which I know is a bit of pandoras box. I see a bit of rust in the boot floor. Certainly needs the heating issue looked into. https://auctions.shannons.com.au/auction/lot/lot-1954-bentley-r-type-saloon/?lot=896&so=0&st=&sto=0&au=14&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=5&g=1 | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 21 Registered: 07-2023 |
test to see if through the power of google I have educated myself to deal with the website Prefeerd colour scheme   | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 526 Registered: 07-2018 |
That car makes me think of one that was done here locally, the guy who did my car, Mercedes Pearl Black and Ford Silver. It looked regal for the Rolls Royce and correct. My opinion is that the cars need to be 2 tone, they're too large and tall for one colour unless done in metallic, although I did see a burgundy one done in a solid colour. It looked OK, but the body lines were lost with the non-metallic paint, and being all one colour _ like the blue one a few posts above. The Clouds and S-Types are longer and more flowing and look good in a single solid colour. That one above looks like a spider in the rear with all those tail lights, someone added some Bentley ones. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 22 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yes Jeff I think your right with a Dawn needs to be a good two tone. I’d go one further and say a Cloud or Bentley S also needs to be. Like I said I have found 9 body colour combinations common to a Dawn, and have to say they all work. A combination of solid and metallic seems most popular. In my view a Mono colour is about all that doesn’t, but each to their own. Had some success with my Mac, I can lasso the bit I want to change, copy and create the colour of the Shadow, but just can’t seem to paste it in the chosen area. My Mac is pretty old and pretty clunky and stop updating a few OS ago. Time for a newy I think. Will keep googling. | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 109.159.182.255 |
The Bentley R Type is misdescribed, both the engine and the gearbox are wrong. See the pictures for the truth. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 23 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yes I noticed that as well, makes you wonder a bit how well Shannons knows cars, or I guess its the sellers information rehashed. Think one would be making their way to the vehicle for a good look over before any bidding though. See it has mirrors on the fenders as well. I guess that was all there was after the minuscule factory rear view mirror. I reckon these days a discrete rear facing camera and a decent screen that slips over the existing rear view mirror is a better option. Still no reserve and it looks like its all there for the most part. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2023 |
Would it be fair to say these Dawns have a touch of Bentley VI Centre driving light  Number plate  And these bumpretts from a Cloud or S  Can anyone point me to a link on how to find/ read chassis build numbers please. I have seen something before but can't find it again. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 29 Registered: 07-2023 |
Not long now, the owner of the Dawn is not far off entering the room. It will be good to sit down and engage. Looking and reading up on these vehicles. I see taking on a a luxury or collectable car bit like picking a partner. You may fall in love with the looks, see life through rose coloured glasses, but there are realities that if one ignores with have a predictable outcome. Neglected maintenance in any relationship has a detrimental effect and will lead to outcomes or bills that may never see a recovery as good as the glory years. Or leave a feeling of eternal attachment because one has over spent and can’t afford to get out. Perhaps one just takes a deep breath, accept the losses, and moves on. Picking up a concourse model will see plenty of admirers, but just like hottest looking woman in the room, there is fair bit of managing involved and fears of scratches or things coming adrift are ever present. So that leaves shopping for the best one can afford. One in VGC, on the closer side to original. If well maintained the inner beauty will shine. A sound investment so to speak. For chasing a beat up, neglected, bastardised one may be cheaper and easier, but there is fair job at hand there after. Once obtained then its up to you. How much does one do? Decisions on where to tend, what to accept, and how much enjoyment to have. Decisions on maintenance can be costly, or is it fertilising the relationship. The choice is yours. Eventually one grows old and becomes a little worn. Eventually a cars passing will match our own. Hopefully the years of fulfilling engagement has left something sound and just as special for a potential new relationship to grow. Somthing you have taken, but now its time to give. I guess the real challenge is having the wife accept another love has moved in, and how a devoted husband juggles both. Think this Dawn has had 3 owners in its 69 years. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 529 Registered: 07-2018 |
Here's a car in a wrong shade of blue and too much of it. To me it looks like a children's toy.  | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 13.40.124.146 |
PYX767, is chassis STH29, built as standard but with rare Harold Radford "shooting brake" modifications. Earls Court Motor Show 1954,R-R Stand. Owned for many years by New York dealer, Sam Ornstein, and not seen again until fairly recently. A good introductory book,is The Restorers Guide , The Original Rolls Royce and Bentley 1946-1965, James Taylor. There are plenty out there,and around £30.00. Complete Classics No 3 with all the Silver Dawn chassis numbers, is unobtainable now. I bought the last newly published one more than 20 years ago. The R-R built Hydramatic, in production between 1952 and 1968, is a fine gearbox, often unused for years, it rusts internally. Often badly maintained and "repaired" with poor arts, (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 32 Registered: 07-2023 |
Christopher, you sound like the man I need to shoot a PM to when I get some numbers. Thanks for the book titles, will see what I can find. To be honest I'm loving the idea of an auto, and the daughters pretty happy about it also. Just can’t get my head around where the gear sticks were placed on these early cars. The Dawn oner also has a 36 Bentley 4,1/4. Probably can’t afford it anyway, but when I spied where the gears stick are it turned me off big time. Even watching the father in law craw over the seat in his Ghost or Phantom for that matter seems just dumb to me. I guess who cared what the shofer thought. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 33 Registered: 07-2023 |
what happened David? Better PM me if I did wrong. | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 109.154.24.78 |
Jason, The prewar cars were accessed by the passengers door, because of the gear and brake lever duo! Henry Royce introduced his small 20 HP car in 1923 with a central 3 speed gearbox,(nice) but everyone from Claude Johnson down, hated it. The right side change stuck until 1957. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4214 Registered: 04-2003 |
Hi Jason, You did nothing wrong - this forum was established in the early days of computer forums when forum software was in its infancy and largely the province of computer technologists who were in the process of both creating forums and the type of software needed to make the forums viable and encourage people with the minimal computer technology available at the time to participate and contribute. At that time, I was "computer literate" and could use a computer and elementary software available having had student access to the UNSW main frame computer making our own very simple programs on punched cards, submitting them for overnight processing and hoping to see a print out from a successful program the next morning. Several decades later, public accessible computers and related software became readily available and the concept of public accessible forums made an appearance based on the computer processing and data management technology of that time leading to the personal computer that could be used at home with new technology software for both public and private use. This forum was established in the early days of this transformation using the technology and software of that era. Unfortunately, the subsequent rapid increase in computer technology and software had an unfortunate side effect in that it was effectively impossible to migrate data and content created on the early computers to the later "high technology" personal computers using advanced computer technology and software specifically designed for widespread public use at home and work. Unfortunately, this rapid technology change didn't include particular attention being given to retrieving and accessing data created by the original personal computers and associated software for future access on the "new" [at that time] personal computers. I have raised this problem several times with our Administrator who has advised it is not feasible to process and transfer the current forum archives for access by current and future personal computers. The only possible solution to this problem that I can see would be the use of current and/or future Artificial Intelligence technology to access, reformat and preserve the forum archives for posterity. I live in hope this will eventuate as the current forum archives are priceless for current and future owners/custodians of all classic RR/Bentley vehicles.  | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 530 Registered: 07-2018 |
One could always do it the old fashioned way, by hand. Set up the new forum with the same categories and get busy with a huge amount of copying and pasting. Photo's basically the same way. Divide up the screen with the old and new forum and have at her. All new accounts would have to be made using the same names and pass words, but nothing could be transferred over; basically start from scratch. Once the new forum was done, each person would create a new account with the same password and user name. Each parson could do it on a 1 to 1 basis, so that part would be pretty easy. It wouldn't have to be all done at once, a bit at a time spread amongst many people, one forum assigned to one or a group of people. The old one would stay up and running until the new one was ready and stable, the old one could even stay in place as a back up. | ||
| Martin Webster New User Username: martin_webster Post Number: 49 Registered: 09-2018 |
I’m happy with the way it is thanks David. Having experienced how the other two clubs in the UK have “improved “ and “modernised “ their forums I would like to stick with what we have. Martin | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 34 Registered: 07-2023 |
oh…..I was talking about my post being pulled, or so I thought. I commented on Dawns don’t look so good in a certain colour and added some photos. Also made a remark about where RR placed componentry, and that it was a show stopper on the idea of buying a 36 Bentley 4,1/4 the guy selling the Dawn has. I thought oh no, this site we are all winners and no one can disagree on another’s expression. This software thing. This site is like these old cars; it is not as swish or as easy to drive compared to a current vehicle. HOWEVER, once you learn to drive it, understand it, its ok and to be honest there is nothing wrong with it. It may not be as fast, require a little patience, and not have air or power but it gets the job done. I have to agree with Jeff I think it was, no advertising is a very nice component. Bit like no plastic. Guess my concern or fear would be, like my 11 year old Mac, and numerous iPhones, technologies progress is rending the devices useless. I can’t upgrade my Mac’s OS anymore and that was 5 or more OS ago. So I can’t access a growing amount on the net. Painfully, and unnecessarily, I will be forced into updating when I really only use the basics. It may be worth considering something like Jeff's proposal. A big job but in comparison to other forums quite a manageable one. Keep in mind I’m certainly no IT guy. Thanks for the explination Dave. Sorry if you felt this new guy is a pain. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2023 |
Chris, too right. I find it amazing what trends society has. I just can’t fathom the well to dos thinking its cool to clamber over the seat, in a small area, and set themselves up with the steering wheel and pedals in the way because the gear stick looks weird in the middle. All in the evening wear or while the better half stands in the rain. But that was the era and shows how humans resist change for the most part, or until it feels safe because others persisted in adopting it. I got chauffeured in the FIL (father in-law’s) Phantom the other day, and watching him crawl in from the passenger’s side I certainly didn’t feel like royalty. More like a pompous watching some type of side show unfold. But hey its 2023 I guess I once smoked, an it never occurred how weird or odd it was standing out in the cold, or rain, or both by myself sucking smoke in and out of my face. Very glad I got ion top of that one. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2023 |
I’ve long had thought that when the EV revolution takes flight ICM vehicles will become worthless. Watching the news the other night sales here on Australia are up 285% first half of 2023 to 2022. And I would say Australia’s supportive industries and its governments are asleep at the wheel with EVs. ICM vehicles were 15 or 20%, Hybrids 0% change. I’d be surprised if we get to emission taxes or restrictions like in Europe, as we are big country with a small population so the wind blows our presence away, though Sydney is reaching smog levels that match other cities that have this issue. Also raises the question if sales in unleaded fuel significantly reduced in the future, how that will impact on price and availability. I imagine Diesel will remain for trucks as they supply everything consumed, well, until hydrogen does to diesel was electricity does to petrol. I look at people’s interest in collectable cars and its huge around the world, and there are some wealthy people have invested a lot in cars. So it’s hard to think petrol will vanish completely, but begs the question what if it does in the next 25+ years. Who has a VCR anymore? Or if you do can you get a cassette for it? The retail and hire shops / industry certainly have gone, or evolved into digital. Similar but completely different. Then I’m looking at thermostats. $270 for an aftermarket one and I’d put a bet down were it is made. Up to $800 for a second hand genuine. Really. These things after you take away the RR tax are a $20 part made in China for 1/20 the retail price. Its interesting the Rover thermostat from the same aftermarket supplier is $13. So it begs the question what is a 1954 Dawn worth today, or into the not to distant future. As an investment I’d say perhaps drop the money on something else. As a potential money pit where you indecently get raped for ownership perhaps drop the money on something else. As a life experience and bit of fun sure why not. Or if its for the engineering perhaps so, but there seems one hell of a price for it. I don’t meant to put down owners , or offend, but what’s your view? I’m starting to think I’m not made for a Rolls Royce. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4215 Registered: 04-2003 |
Jason, The problem is not with the cars themselves; the problem is the rate of change in technology. My expectation is that LPG conversions will be the short-term saviour of classic vehicles with liquid fuel internal combustion engines and hydrogen conversions for internal combustion engines will be the long-term pollution-free saviour as the emissions are 100% water. The main problem will be range issues due to fuel storage problems in the vehicles. The other issue to be considered would be the conversion of classic cars to electric propulsion where the engine and fuel system is replaced entirely. Horrific to most enthusiasts but cannot be ignored if classic cars of the past are to be seen and appreciated in the future. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks David, Either way, or perhaps anyway, I can’t see a 50K Dawn being worth more than 20-25 in my mind, perhaps less. Conversions of any sort will be expansive, and perhaps double or triple the cars value. I have been watching this guy electrify Land Rovers. Only a true cashed up modern enthusiast would pay, but then a proper enthusiast would not. The issues around cost and bastardisation are to great. And I can tell you after owning a few it will still only be a Land Rover, 1955 or 2010 it doesn’t matter. Then if one adds the reality of probably having to do the mechanical work as the only viable way to maintain the vehicle. Taking in the age of club members, or the brains trust to young blood having an interests in mechanicals is a one sided affair. Compounded as I read in other threads, owners issues accessing hired help that can be trusted, or has the know how and experience, then time required, puts a kings ransom on the bill. Let alone the RR tax on parts. These cars have always attracted elitism, but in 2023 they are just an old car with some smooth lines and interesting history. Could be argued my daughters 2013 Nissan Pulsar beats it hands down in just about every factor besides class. Still I admit in 70 years the Pulsar wont be here, but I could see someone collecting, restoring, maintaining a Tesla roaster in 2093. Mostly because its low volume and expansive to start with. The odd thing is, and perhaps every classic, veteran, or vintage car owner knows it in the back of thiner mind. These cars are not a sensible decision. But like a gambler they follow their heart instead of their head. Whatever they get from ownership, regardless of the garbage its puts on them, is somehow justified by the act. My FIL is taking his Silver Ghost to the local car show this weekend. The Phantom 1 went to the RRs club annual the other day. Obsrbing the continuous stream of old blokes coming for a look through the shed, perhaps it is the attention these cars offer. Stranger or not someone always wants to know something, or has a story about one, or just wants a look. It it perhaps these cars fulfil a human need for attention? Could it be Mr Royce's inner need that appeals to every owner of his car there after. To be seen, to be noticed. Bit like my waffle on here. Still, I'm not feeling positive about the comming conversation with the Dawn owner. please. chime in if I am missing something. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 848 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jason, I bought a Shadow 25 years ago , used it daily for 11 years and still have it and use it occasionally. The attraction of the Shadow progressed to buying my wife a Bentley8 in 2005 ( she still has it as her daily car) a Bentley S1 in 2000, still have it and have had several Spirits and Bentley Mulsannes as my daily drivers since the Shadow was retired. These cars are addictive, if you buy a Dawn or in my opinion better a Bentley mk6 you will become addicted OR hate the sight of them !( unlikely) Some parts and repairs are expensive,but if you are reasonable with a spanner and can read a workshop manual maintenance need not be indecently expensive. Mark | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks Mark Got any pics of the S1 I can understand the addiction or perhaps in my case the attraction. It was a S1 that took my liking initially, and if the Dawn proceeds I’d like to think a Cloud 1 will arrive in the garage one day. The Dawn came about from an idea of an easy buy from a trusted owner, and a bit of fun. Then made sweeter as it was a way of providing funds for two aging brothers to get back to the UK to see some stuff. You know, trains, planes, motorbikes and cars, perhaps a rally or show. I’m not afraid of mechanics as my father was a mechanic, but I am scared by being stranded on the side of the road. Thanks to my Land Rover experience I have had my fair share of frustrating situations, sadly which kicked off on day 2 of ownership of a brand new one. On top of that if this Dawn stops I reckon the wife will set it in fire before tearing me a new one. She would much rather drop the money on travel. I guess $15 for a a manual is not bad. And with the help of the internet and forums all is not lost. Befriend some of the dirty fingernail brigade down the club and your probably in pretty good hands. As you can see I run hot and cold on this. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 849 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jason, I too have had Defenders, my last one made 200 yards from the supplying dealer (new) before the heater failed and turned round and took straight back ! Warranty claim within 5 mins of delivery. I have now had this pickup for 14 years, maintained by an independent garage. I don't work on diesels. Will sort a picture of the S1. Mark | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 41 Registered: 07-2023 |
Isn’t that terrible, you knew I was talking about Defenders. Mine ran fine on the way home, day 2 it flat bedded to the dealer and disappeared for 8 weeks. Who would have thought for a simple ol Defender being the most expansive pick up in the market at the time. The Freelander 2 I was given as the replacement was a great car, very nice to drive and well balanced in appointment, but not much of a painters truck. LR fixed the issue by replacing almost all the electrics bar the harness, but after warranty it returned which left us in a guessing game of whether it was going to start. Not much fun when you’re the lead car on the ferry, or out in the desert, or stopping at the bakery on the way out of town to go camping. All with kids under 10. It also had a continuous amount of issues in warranty, impute shafts, transfer cases, windscreen washer motors the list was huge. You could give me one now and I’d just leave it there. Still within the LR bubble they suck it up and love the cars. I guess my fear is the RR & B crowd is the same. We used to laugh LR drives waved to each other as they knew they needed a mate around the corner. Even if they could not fix it, they could offer moral support and stare aimlessly into the engine bay beside you. With the Series 1 I had, those guys felt ripped off if it didn’t stop. Just loved fixing an issue on the side of the road. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 532 Registered: 07-2018 |
Jason, it sounds like you're comparing the reliability of the Dawn to a Land Rover; the two are worlds apart in build quality and reliability. The failing of the new Rovers are the electronic circuit boards and wiring, it's Chinese, and probably other foreign manufacturers. While good quality parts can come from other countries, I believe that due to cost saving measures, the parts on the circuit boards are of very poor quality and fail quickly, eg. capacitors, when those fail, all things go quickly. Other times the Rover's are fine needing very little attention _ it's a crap-shoot. If you get the Dawn, make it reliable, check the points in the fuel pump(s) right away, don't assume they're OK just because they're working now, failure may be a month or less away. Distributor points, coil, condenser; ignition wires _ that sort of thing. Distributor Doctor is where you want to get a condenser. https://www.distributordoctor.com/distributor_condensers.htm Make sure the spikes in the distributor cap are not rusted. Don't rely on the original 70 year old Lucas coil, carry a working spare. Take one wire off one of the fuel pumps, and see if the one connected still works _ then do the other. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 44 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yeh…you may think it’s a crap shoot and that’s ok. But I feel car clubs – enthusiast live in bubbles, they justify “what is” as some accepted quirk. Let’s not forget a car is nothing more than a company’s product to make money, nothing else. Furthermore the companies interest in your life is finished after they have excited you enough to buy the product. It is then the buyer who puts all the romance, collectability, price, status and ? into the company’s product. Free marketing so to speak. LR sure follow RR’s view, you buy the car from us sir, we don’t sell it to you. Perhaps that’s just English. But it’s not my fault LR put poor quality components in, and if they are happy to rip me I’m happy to slag them. If they are stupid enough not to put grease on the input shaft because it’s “handmade” who’s fault is that. But it sure was my inconvenience. I bought new hoping to dodge the Defender reputation, but no, not a chance. I guess I’m just trying to keep it real. And I know I have been on the negative side regarding collectable cars. I am sorry if I have offend owners. However after owning LRs I found one romances over cars because it’s good for the soul, but they are also what they are on the day. I see the Bentley R type going for auction is only at $15 500. Compared to the Dawn it has a couple known demerit points, so one has to allow for all sorts when coming up with a fair price. There were people trying to sell my model Defender for 45K to 60k, in reality they sell for 25K if you ring around adds that have sold, and what mine moved for. I have been reading Tee One articles, and though mostly for Shadows and some 20 years ago, the idea of sharing knowledge is commendable and inspiring. I understand pre-war fuel pumps were switched for motor 1 or 2, good decision regarding redundancy and reliability. Post war the two motors became one. So think alongside cleaning and resetting the points, wiring in a 1 and 2 motor switch would be sensible. No point discovering the car has been running on 1 motor for years hiding the fact the other failed long ago. I would love to drive it home if it goes ahead, but its some 1800km (1050 mile), and the car has succumb too motor heating issues even though its driven monthly. It would be grand if I could spend a week or so moving over this car making it reliable with the owner before a journey home. To show up with a bag full of goodies to address known culprits would be very useful. Furthermore a joy to hang with a mechanically minded guy if his up to it. Perhaps he has done most things already? Seems like a more exciting thing to do over trucking it home. Thanks for the link Jeff. You’re a good man. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 533 Registered: 07-2018 |
A crap shoot when it comes to electronics, not just on cars. Post war RR's and Bentley's are only as reliable as how much care was put into them. The overheating problem, can and may be a big expensive job to solve. After owning mine for over 20 years and reading countless posts of the problem, the rad is the biggest cause _ blocked up. Faulty thermostat, next, and a corroded water pump where there's nothing left of the impellor and or body. Silted up block, and if really bad, it requires the removal of the casting plugs to clean as much gunk out as possible. The head should be removed to access the block, and check the head for corrosion. The brass tube that runs the length of the block to disperse the cooled water from the pump can become unattached from the front of the block. This allows no cooling to the rear of the block, and most of the 5 cylinders after number 1. The exhaust receive no cooling. An over heating problem like in the Dawn you're considering could run from 2000.00 to 5000.00 in parts and labour in Australian dollars. Most of that is all in labour, if I took the rad out myself, that's most of the work, but that requires the removal of the entire front of the car as everything is bolted onto the rads' frame. It is possible to just undo the bolts that hold the fenders, inner fender wells and other bits (like the horns) and just remove the rad with out taking the entire front end apart, but it does not like to come apart this way. The Dawn has all this plumbing for the heat ducting there as well that will have to be dealt with. You get my point, this makes it unreliable to drive the 1050 miles home. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 45 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yes your probably right. As painful as it may be the side plates are coming off, radiator out, head off, water pump and so on. I'm a bit of a believer of do it right, do it once. I figure whatever the asking price, and even if driven monthly, at least 10k will need to be sunk to make it somewhat reliable. Tyres, fuel system flush, service, probably a carby kit, something will be leaking. As boring as it is, maybe $2000 for a truck ride is a safer option. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4216 Registered: 04-2003 |
"As boring as it is, maybe $2000 for a truck ride is a safer option." If you really want the car; this would be my preferred action. You can then work on the car at leisure and at your own pace without first suffering the stress involved in driving the car home let alone possible recovery costs if the car "fails to proceed" exceeding the initial cost of a truck ride from purchase to your storage locations. . | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 46 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yeh I l know dumb idea. But I once had an idea for changing careers and creating a new job for myself that involved buying a truck. So I got a licence, flew to Tasmania, and drove one home. That was my first one but I can tell you driving it onto the ferry with all those other trucks crammed in like sardines was an eye bulging experience. Sadly, “fail to proceed” is the situation. Not sure what’s been communicated between these brothers but one has cash, the other doesn’t. They both have sheds full of treasures. Both would like to go to England to do the rounds of collectables. Both 80+ and running out of mates to do it with. I, who didn’t really need a RR saw it as an opportunity to provide funding for one brother to join the other, my father in law. And I get this old car and start a bit of a joke RR’s run in the family. But nope brother with the Dawn doesn’t wish to sell it. So that’s that, build plate SPG9 for what its worth. 3 owners, complete with manuals, papers, tools, never seen rain, blb bla bla. Its been a nice journey, the crash course in RR and Bs for the last couple months. Throughout that journey however, I have come up with a casual business idea that can fill a void for transport in my area with a novel boutique service. Perhaps turn the car over and make it pay for itself a little, maybe create a job for the kids. RR always claimed they make cars for 4, but I’m thinking though one would fit the bill beautifully, I need sedan that takes 2 couples or 4 adults; somewhat easily. So its been nice knowing you. I wish you well with your vehicles. Thank you for your time. I’m off to look at old Mercedes-Benzs. Take care. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 534 Registered: 07-2018 |
I know situations like that when a family who owns things, don't really want to sell, but they do, they can't stand someone else owning what was once theirs due to sellers remorse. I call that "a dog in the manger". Where I worked there was a silent partner that owned most of the property and had a bunch of cars in the back forty, most of which were driven in there under their own power. Over many decades, they all deteriorated beyond restoration from being outside. The miser sitting on his car collection that hoards things and doesn't look after them. He eventually hired someone to sell the lot, but there was no value left anything, there was even a Packard 8 block found buried in the dirt that was so corroded it was now useless. He showed up one day and was looking for it and I told him it was hauled away, he had this look of great disappointment and dismay on his face. I assured him that it was beyond restoration, but I don't know if that made him feel better. Not that the Dawn was being abused, but you can't take it with you. Sitting in a barn and letting the block and head corrode from old coolant is abuse though. Anyways, sorry to see you go, you still may post and look in on things though, you don't have to own a RR or Bentley to be here. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4217 Registered: 04-2003 |
"Anyways, sorry to see you go, you still may post and look in on things though, you don't have to own a RR or Bentley to be here." Jeff Martin Yes - this forum is open to all provided there is compliance with normal standards of truth, decency and relevance. | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 47 Registered: 07-2023 |
Hi gang, we'll I’m back. Been down a Mercedes Benz 220S path. Detoured over to a Jaguar Mk IX, man they are nice. And ended up with a Bentley S1 Harold Radford Countryman. Be home in a week or two. Funny how fait runs. If I were to be honest a Bentley S1 was what caught my eye years ago looking through the constant supply of RR and B publications sitting on the FIL’s dinning table. Never could see how I could afford one or sell it to the wife. Plus finding one that I felt comfortable buying at a price I can deal with seemed impossibly distant. So through the hope of the family connection and possible Silver Dawn, I formed a view RR was where it was at and B was the adopted orphan saved by RR, and why settle on 2nd place. Well a bit more educated, a bit more grounded, a bit more open minded I can see the merits of a Bentley. There really is not much in it, but again there is. Guess I’ll be annoying you blokes for a little while longer. I’ll see you in the Cloud - S1 section in the fullness of time. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 542 Registered: 07-2018 |
The 4.9 litre in that had reached its final development and is the most refined. RR had worked out, as much as possible, all the short-comings of its in-line 6. Photo's please; what colour is it ? | ||
| Jason Watson New User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2023 |
Yes its the 4.9lt with larger Su's, dual channel brakes, power assisted steering. For what its worth the original owner was Sir Carol Reed the British actor/producer who won an Oscar for the movie “Oliver”. He had the Radford “Countryman” conversion done. You will just have to be patient for the rest. |
