| Author | Message | ||
     Edward Shoesmith New User Username: younghenri Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2022 |
Hello Everyone Seeking likeminded fellow “marque enthusiasts” to consider coming together for the purposes of formally establishing a RR&B mechanical / electrical repair workshop co-operative. This is not an alternate RROC, it is to establish workshop and repair facilities to be owned & funded by members/shareholders whom are RROC or not. Wanting other RR & Bentley owners willing to form a working committee with the view and purpose of establishing a Co-Operative workshop and repair facility in 2023 for the benefit of its members and enthusiast alike, and to prepare a detailed prospectus to attract and encourage a minimum of 50+ members/shareholders to join. Ideally I’m seeking a minimum of 4 other people who have the capacity, time and energy to establish a founding committee for the proposed co-operative, having the express goal of providing mechanical and electrical facilities to members or shareholders and the extended public in the Sydney and NSW RR & Bentley community, initially for post war vehicles. There are multiple legal entities available for the establishment of such a venture ranging but not limited to; 1. Distributing Co Operative 2. Non-Distributing Co Operative 3. For Profit Corporation 4. Not for profit Corporation With ownership basis being either; 1. Shareholders 2. Customer Owned Co Operative 3. Multi Stake Co Operative I suspect that either a Distributing co-operative or for-profit corporation is likely the best solution, but I have no firm position. It is this sort of determination that would need to be review and recommended by the founding committee. Likewise, the need for additional exploratory investigation into many other areas needs to be undertaken as well, from; 1. Premises location, sizing 2. Technical equipment requirements and sourcing 3. Staffing requirements and experience 4. Product and service offerings – short and long term 5. Revenue streams 6. Funding 7. Marketing and Branding And a multitude of other areas likewise. I have embryonic ideas as to how I envisage such a venture is to be funded and operated and would be happy to brief those interested in perhaps joining a founding committee and to then set a formal agenda for the establishment of the enthusiast owned facilities. I’m a great believer in “many heads make better choices”, so I'm seeking people of all different backgrounds, don’t care if you’re a street sweeper or a head of state, all input from fellow enthusiasts is welcome and encouraged, likewise I don’t care if you own a $10K or $5M car, I'm only interested in establishing a viable venture with fellow enthusiasts who can financially contribute and recognize the value of coming together to reduce maintenance and ownership costs, to foster growth of the enthusiasts base, dispel the myths of expensive ownership and rid the market of outrageous price gauging by a few around Sydney that believe they have the market cornered and are mystical beings possessing knowledge unknown to others. Likewise, to encourage, more apprenticeship within the marquee and keep the vehicles on the road for all to enjoy. Please make contact if you feel the same way or are curious. FYI my own skill set/background is finance and accounting, I also have access to a free legal provider as well, but I’m looking for anyone that can contribute to the project no matter their background, education or vocation. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4123 Registered: 04-2003 |
Edward, In the early 2000's, a group of enthusiasts in the Canberra Branch of the RROCA set up a Self-Help Group for Silver Shadow and Bentley T owners which I and several other Sydney RROCA members attended including one we later titled "Fixing RR&B vehicles in a Firestorm" and is the subject of its own Forum threads: http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/338.html http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/16947/20017.html This concept later expanded to Sydney with myself as one of the Sydney founding members. One of the outcomes was the periodic publication of a newsletter called "Tee One Topics" by ACT Members Bill Coburn and George Shores primarily intended for Shadow and Bentley T DIY custodians but later expanded to other RR and Bentley vehicles. There is a complete archive of these news letters in the Rolls-Royce and Bentley Technical Library: https://rrtechnical.info/ Unfortunately, the author of this publication ceased producing this newsletter due to advancing age and no-one came forward to continue its preparation and publication. Both the Canberra and Sydney Self-Help Groups later ceased their activities as members with time and interest to maintain the groups were not available [this includes myself due to family constraints however I continued to act as Moderator for this Forum]. Increasing legal regulations and legal issues relating to liabilty of the organisers arising from the Group's activities also became a major deterrent to the Group's activities. From my experience, a commercial "U-Do-It" style business structure competing with established professional repairers is unlikely to be viable and an organised self-help style group would not be viable due to the prevailing legal liability issues. Some of the major considerations to be considered with your proposal will be obtaining and covering the cost of professional liability insurance and compliance with prevailing occupational health and safety regulations. The costs involved with obtaining and employing qualified and experienced RR/B professional mechanics with experience of past models in particular to comply with legal aspects of the business will substantially reduce the profitability potential of your proposal in my opinion. Having "been there and done that" in times that favoured your proposed business operation; I very much doubt your proposed future business model will be viable given the business legal constraints and regulations involved in today's litigious, regulated and competitive environment. | ||
| Edward Shoesmith New User Username: younghenri Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2022 |
Hey David Appreciate your view point, and understand you personally may have reservations, completely understandable, all business ideas have an inherent level of risk associated, some people are comfortable some are not. A previous lack of interest or commitment does not in my view extinguish potential opportunity or a market need - I think its one of those matters that needs to be revisited at different periods ongoing, hence why I am flagging it atm. Its unclear to me what other enthusiast experiences are and have been previously in engaging regualr and reliable maintenance services. As an example a few days ago I attempt to contact 4 different service providers to discuss engine rebuild and reconduition on one of my cars. Not a single enterprise was remotely interested unless I was prepared to pay through the nose and wait 6 plus months. This begs the question then if it is increasingly difficult to find mechanics with experience and interest in maintaining older cars (any marque for that matter not just RR & Bentley) exactly how do enthusiasts imagine their investments and passion will survive - past the next decade let alone with the advent of EV and alternate fuel supply developments??? Should one simply "bail on the sinking ship now before the waterline reaches one head and off load them to some unsuspecting schmuck - I think not?" Its evidently clear to me that classic cars are in themselves becoming investment opportunity - if you have any doubt take a look the explosion's of Holden Torana pricing for original SLR5000.s one was recently advertised for $655K. Alternatively look at Porsche 911 and Jaguar XK or E types or Mercedes Cabriolet 300 SEL. Even the humble VW bettle these days is now pushing 30-40K and there were millions produced. So I find it difficult to comprehend all these various enthusiasts and investors will simply stand by and watch there investments literally rott! So to my view doing nothing is not an option. However my proposal is not a DIY model but a commercial model, and I know of 2 mechanics atm and an auto electrician willing to consider taking on the roles - given sufficient funding and opportunity. Also I'm aware of another individual with vast a knowledge base prepared to consult during the green field stage. However as mentioned at this stage such a proposal would only address post war models, mainly due to the pre war models more likely to require custom solutions particularly from an engineering perspective, where as post war models parts are readily more available. As mentioned ownership would be in the hands of members and as a minimum would require at least 50 members to provide teh envisage startup funding necessary and the business activities would be in the hands of qualified people. The benefit of having 50 plus members is of course immediate access to a platitude of customers. Yes it does need a reasonable level of interest to make it a viable but that's no different to an independent operating in the current environment today in my view. It may also require an association with another key marque for example to make it sustainable, I'm a member of 3 other clubs and I hear the same concerns with them as well It would simply be a community owned enterprise providing services to members and non members alike on a overhead cost recovery chargeable basis - eg no mark up on parts and minimal mark up on overheads ... - for members and for non members overheads recovery plus margin basis for non members. I personally this year alone have spent $10K+ just on one vehicle alone, only to find out not only did the labour hours charge get grossly over stated, but additionally charged 50% mark up on RRP base point for parts pricing. I could have got them out of England myself for less than 60% on what I was charged. Im sure I am not the only one who is in this position on a regular basis either. So i am curious to discover if their indeed would be enough interested to at least put a founding committee together to propose a workable model to enthusiasts. Edward |
