| Author | Message | ||
     Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1191 Registered: 5-2012 |
David With regard to your entry of 2003 about the Canberra firestorm; have you still got any of the pics? I took the one below when I lived in Las Vegas. We were in the north of the city in an area called Summerlin. The fires were on the other side of the mountains. Fortunately the fire stayed there and no houses were destroyed. Tanker helicopters were flying overhead to try and control the fire. They had long pipes dangling below them. Apparently they would hover over Lake Mead with the pipe in the water to fill the tank and then fly over the mountains to dump the contents on the fire below. Sounds like what you experienced was of an order of magnitude greater.  | ||
| Patrick Ryan Frequent User Username: patrick_r Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2016 |
Wow Geoff, That's pretty frightening stuff. Good ending as well. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1192 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Patrick There was no danger as the mountains were acting as a brake. I didn't start any projects on the Rolls however, just in case. Sounds like David's experience in 2003 was far more risky. Geoff | ||
| Patrick Ryan Frequent User Username: patrick_r Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2016 |
Not wrong there mate. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1988 Registered: 4-2003 |
OK - have found the pictures but not the article that went with them. It was a very dangerous situation and as you will see from the photographs, the smoke turned afternoon day light into night. Fortunately, the gale-force winds driving the fires abated late in the afternoon reducing the threat to lives and properties. Notwithstanding, the fire threatening Bill's home in Kambah burnt down to his rear boundary fence however his home escaped damage unlike many other houses in Kambah. More information on the fires is on the following link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Canberra_bushfires My photos in time sequence with the exception of the last photo are as below, the spots on the images are ash falling from the sky: 1. 10.09am The day started like any other Self Help session  2. 10.10am Bill Coburn discussed accumulator recharging  3. 1.50pm The smoke cloud turned Day to Night  4. 1.50pm Flames appear in the East on the opposite side of the valley  5. 1.52pm Flames behind the western hills immediately behind Bill's home  6. 1.54pm We had better get these cars mobile  7. 2.34pm The Eastern hill burns  8. 2.40pm Work continues under difficult conditions  9. 2.43pm Work faster the fire is close  10. Imagine the cost of the insurance claim if the cars are trapped in the fire  Fortunately, we were able to get all the cars mobile and out of Kambah just before the Emergency Services closed the roads leading in and out of Kambah as the fire front hit. The only damage was to the car of one of the Canberra owners whose paintwork was damaged by burning embers raining from the sky as he drove home. | ||
| michael vass Prolific User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2015 |
Hi David I found an article like this ,I searched storm and there was a story about Bill Coburn. Hope that helps Mike ps second posting ,first one disappered again after I had clicked on the post this message button | ||
| Patrick Ryan Frequent User Username: patrick_r Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2016 |
David, That's a great set of images. I bet there was some very concerned people on that afternoon. Very lucky end to a situation that was so close to disaster. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1194 Registered: 5-2012 |
How embarrassing for the management of the fire services in not extinguishing the initial small fires. At last a face to the name of Bill Coburn. Is that Brian Crump standing with his arms behind his back. This must have been a very worrying time for Bill. So glad his house survived intact. Thanks for putting the pics up David. Geoff | ||
| Brian Crump Prolific User Username: brian_crump Post Number: 140 Registered: 2-2007 |
No - not me. I am sure someone can advise us who this person might be. Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1878 Registered: 6-2009 |
Bill wrote an article about this fateful self-help session entitled, Firing Up. See the first article in Tee-One Topics, Issue 21 Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1989 Registered: 4-2003 |
Geoff, The man with his hands behind his back is NSW Branch member Eric Hart. The weather conditions at the time were such [hot, low humidity, strong westerly winds and a heavy build-up of tree debris on the ground] there was no way known for the emergency services to control let alone put out the fires whether they were started by an arsonist or a lightning strike (this is a common cause if the weather conditions are right). The first fire reportedly started in a NSW National Park where there had been no fire hazard reduction for a considerable period of time thanks to environmental groups pressuring the NPWS to leave things completely natural - this became an important issue along with others in the later inquiries into the fires and their aftermath. [Disclosure - I am strongly in favour of controlled hazard reduction burns especially of the "chequer board" type that were trialled about a decade ago in the bush-fire prone Heathcote national park south of Sydney after the 1993 bush fires. This type of hazard reduction allows the native animals to move safely to the unburnt areas for protection rather than being trapped by a fire front which has no escape. As far as I am aware, the argument about controlled hazard reduction has not been fully resolved as the extreme environmentalists are adamant they are right and everyone else is wrong - pity they have never been in an uncontrolled bushfire let alone tried to fight a wind-driven out-of-control fire.] Michael, You have to click twice to be certain of your post appearing. First the "Preview/Post Message" button below the composing box then the "Post this Message" button below the preview screen that appears after you click the first button and do any final editing that you wish for the message to then appear in the thread. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1879 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, Interesting how "things are kind of opposite" as far as forest/land management on opposing sides of the globe. For decades it was policy to extinguish all forest fires ASAP, which allowed virtually every state and national park involving forest land to get more and more and more overgrown - developing fuel stores - since natural small fires were not occurring to consume different areas and keep fuel levels lower. One specialist in long-leaf pines has had a feud with the forest service because fire is required for long-leaf pine cones to open and release seeds to reproduce. It's not alone. The policy has been shifting steadily back toward allowing natural burns to occur but keeping an eye on them to contain them if it's necessary. In the USA there is a character called Smokey the Bear (or just Smokey Bear) that has been used for decades with the tag line, "Only you can prevent forest fires." Here's one of the iconic poster images from the public service announcement campaigns:  He's based upon an actual bear cub that was found after a forest fire singed and hanging at the top of a burned tree. There is also an amusing joke related to Smokey: Why didn't Smokey the Bear have children? . . . . . . . . Because every time his wife got hot he'd beat her with a shovel! Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1992 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian, I recall seeing Smokey as a child in story books from the USA sold here in Australia - if my memory is correct he was the subject of at least one Little Golden Book. I do not recall if we had an equivalent; if we did he would most likely have worn a knapsack sprayer on his back rather than carrying a shovel. Good taste prevents me from rewriting your joke accordingly.......... A lot of Australian plants depend on fire for germination and this fact is used to propagate native plants for sale in garden outlets. It has been found for many plants that the catalyst for successful germination is something contained in the smoke from burning timber. The nurseries make a fire burning native wood and wave wet towels through the smoke until they smell strongly of smoke and then wring them out over the pots containing the seeds they wish to germinate. The smoky water does the trick and the seeds germinate - works particularly well for Xmas bells and flannel flowers as well as acacia trees such as our wattles | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1198 Registered: 5-2012 |
David With regard to the initial period of the fires, I was just quoting part of the wiki page you gave the link to: "Despite their proximity and very small initial sizes, low intensity, and low rate of spread, these fires were not extinguished or contained by emergency services personnel. Subsequent inquiries into the bushfires, including the Roche report, the McLeod inquiry, and the Coroners Report, identified poor management of the initial response as a key contributor to the disaster that unfolded on 18 January 2003." I fully accept the truth may be different to that quoted, but my original comment was just based on the wiki page. Geoff | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1993 Registered: 4-2003 |
Geoff, The true story of the initial fires was the subject of much obfuscation by vested interests solely concerned with shifting blame away from themselves. In my opinion albeit without having personal knowledge of all circumstances , the main factors were the build-up of a very heavy fuel load in the parks and forests surrounding the ACT in the years preceding the fires, the lack of a co-ordinated hazard reduction programme between NSW and the ACT adjacent to their border, the terrain and condition of the fire trails and the actual co-ordination of the fire-fighting units available for and assigned to the initial fire-fighting efforts exacerbated by the extreme fire weather conditions that made the fires uncontrollable when these conditions arrived over the fire grounds. It is also my belief petty jealousies, animosities and confusion about co-ordination responsibilities may also have affected the initial responses and were subsequently covered up or not highlighted to protect the reputations of those involved and/or deflect responsibility for payment of compensation. There was some argument between NSW and the ACT over the payment of compensation after the fires and this possibility should or would have been known prior to the subsequent inquiries. With all due respect to the Wiki report, it is not unusual for affected parties to demand editing/retraction of statements adverse to them in the Wiki content even though the comments may be well-founded. The ACT fires became very political with regard to apportioning responsibility and liability for compensation and the findings of the inquiries reflect this in my opinion. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 460 Registered: 2-2013 |
Brian that's a ripper joke about Smokey the Bear. Dave, apart from war carnage pics I don't know if I have every viewed such scarey looking photos. I would have been up the road and gone the other way. |
