| Author | Message | ||
     Peter Markham Unregistered guest Posted From: 138.217.39.78 |
Dash and windscreen surround looking for an owner. Pictures are here: http://www.auburnantiques.com/pictures1.htm (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Mark Herbstreit Experienced User Username: mark_herbstreit Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2005 |
My guess would be short boot (manual) RHD Silver Dawn. | ||
| Peter Markham Unregistered guest Posted From: 138.217.39.78 |
Thank you Mark. By direct message I also got this: "I can identify this panel and screen surround as being standard equipment on an immediate Post-War Bentley Mk6 standard steel saloon, and was also used on the Rolls Royce Silver Dawn. It is probably from a 1947 model right through to the "big boot" R-type Bentley of 1954." The question now is: Is anyone looking for the parts? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Mark Herbstreit Experienced User Username: mark_herbstreit Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2005 |
The Bentley Mark VI layout was different with a four in one guage not four separate guages so yours is definately Rolls-Royce not Bentley (1948-52 would be the correct vintage.) The later Dawns had a wider pull out tray at the bottom. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1000 Registered: 4-2003 |
A curious bit of trivia about R-R and B dashboards is that a number of later Silver Dawns, mainly coachbuilt ones, have the Bentley dashboard complete with the 4 in 1 gauge cluster. This magic cluster popped up again on the SSII and T2 as it is so effective. From the R-Type Bentley and E-Series Dawn onwards, they all have the slide-out picnic table in the centre carrying the radio underneath, and the R-Type centre section is metal with the wood veneer applied directly to it. | ||
| John Richardson Unregistered guest Posted From: 139.168.194.17 |
Possible correction re "From the R-type Bentley .......onwards, they ALL have the slide- out picnic table in the centre carrying the radio underneath......" (Emphasis Added) Three of my R-types have the Mk.VI Dashboard without the slide-out picnic table in the centre carrying the radio underneath. These cars are B.20RT the First R-Type Delivered (Delivery on 15 June 1952) which is more Mk.VI than the later R-Types, B.173.TO (Delivery 1 June 1953 and B.315.TO (Delivery on 2 Sept 1953). Thus it appears at best, Most, not All, R-Types have the slide-out picnic table in the centre carrying the radio underneath. Trust this assists clarify Fact. Johnny (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| John Richardson Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.152.238 |
The Dash Rail/Windscreen Surround appears to have provision for Windscreen Wiper mechanisms and thus should fit either a RHD Shortboot Dawn or Bentley Mk.VI, whilst as Mark Herbstreit points out, the Dash Panel appears correct for only a Shortboot Dawn. This should mean the parts can if desired be used as a set, or individually, making allowances for woodgrain, with the Dash Rail/Windscreen Surround having application over both 1947-1952 Models. Hope this assists. Johnny (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1001 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sorry for the error. The picnic tray must have come later. A check of the records would need to be done to see when and maybe for which markets the tray was introduced. Three SNF-series Silver Dawns I know certainly have one, as does B174UM and all the other R-Types I have seen, but they are all mid-series R-Types. I goes to show that some such spares need a fair degree of research before purchase. | ||
| John Richardson Unregistered guest Posted From: 139.168.194.17 |
Research is always interesting and Richard Treacey’s postings regarding the Dash Facia/ Centre Sliding Picnic Tables fitted to R-Types opens up questions with regard to information in Reference Books. Richard’s posting on 26 May 2006 re checking records gave food for thought, as from my observations of TN Series cars and information ingested many years ago, I thought the Factory modified the Dash/Facia Layout from the TN Series to include the Centre Slide Out Picnic Tray and Metal Wood Veneered Instrument Facia with the Slatted Fabric Backed Wooden Panel fitted above it. Although I do not currently have ready access to much in the way of Technical/Research publications, I managed to find two publications which are germane to Richard’s questions as to when these Modifications were introduced. However, there may be some conflict which appears to require clarification/resolution, so the following is germane to this thread and what appears to be conundrums, where assistance is sought for resolution. Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965 compiled and published by the Bentley drivers Club Ltd with the authority of Rolls-Royce Motors Ltd, lists at page 43 relating to Modifications, that the Metal Facia Modification was implemented from Chassis B.2.TN. This publication makes no mention of the Modification to incorporate the Centre Sliding Picnic Tray carrying the Radio, or the Slatted Fabric Backed Wooden Panel fitted above the Metal Facia. However, B.10.TN, B.24.TN and other TN Series cars I have seen All have the Metal Facia with the Slatted Fabric Backed Wooden Panel fitted above it and the Centre Sliding Picnic Table carrying the Radio. Could have/did the Modification listed as “Metal Facia” included all these modifications ? Original Rolls-Royce & Bentley 1946-65 by James Taylor at page 52; states Verbatim:– “From chassis no B2TN in summer 1953, the fascia was actually made of metal behind the wooden panels, and the radio was built in to the underside of the pull out picnic tray so that it moves with the tray ” As there is no mention of the Slatted Fabric Backed Wooden Panel fitted above the Metal Facia, was it included in the Modification know as “Metal Facia” ? It is also noted that page 52 of Original Rolls-Royce & Bentley 1946-65 James Taylor continues with the statement, “The first R types have a tray containing hand tools underneath the passengers side glove box exactly as on the final MkV1’s, however at chassis B66UM in late 1953, the tool tray was moved to a new position under the driver’s seat and the glove box was enlarged” This statement appears supported by Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965, where page 42 relating to Modifications also lists “Improved Type Underseat Tool Tray” being implemented at Chassis B.66.UM. James Taylor’s unequivocal statement the Tool Tray was moved to a New Position under the Driver’s Seat at Chassis B.66.UM and the listing of “Improved Type Underseat Tool Tray” at Chassis B.66.UM in Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965 appear to also give rise to a conundrum, as follows:- The Chassis Card for B.66.UM Confirms Delivery was on 10 December 1953, with the Guarantee being issued on 11 December 1953. The Chassis Card for B.10.TN Confirms Delivery was on 29 June 1953 and this car was Delivered with an Under Seat Tool Tray, as was B.24.TN which was delivered around the same time. Similarly, B.191.UL was Delivered on 30 October 1953 for shipment to Australia and had exactly the same Driver’s Under Seat Tool Tray as both B.10.TN and B.24.TN. I have been given to understand it took some four to six weeks for the Factory to complete each Standard Steel R-Type. At page 21 under Chassis Numbers And Delivery Dates, Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965 shows Chassis Numbers B.2.UM to B.250.UM were delivered between November 1953 to March 1954, the TN Chassis Series starting with B.2.TN commenced Delivery from June 1953 (B.10.TN being Delivered on 29June 1953)and the UL series was delivered from October 1953. Thus, if James Taylor is Correct that B.66.UM was the First car to have the Tool Tray fitted under the Driver’s Seat and this car was Delivered on 11 December 1953, why do B.10.TN, B.24.TN and B.191.UL All have Tool Trays under the Driver’s Seat when they were Delivered before B.66.UM ? Would B.66.UM have even been subject to Order at the date B.10.TN, B.24.TN and B.191.UL were Delivered ? Could construction of B.66.UM have commenced prior to the construction of B.10.TN, B.24.TN and B.191.UL but Delivery have been held back until 11 December 1953 ? Alternatively, is it possible the Modification of the Tool Tray being relocated under the Driver’s Seat commenced with the TN or Earlier Series, and that the Modification “Improved Type Underseat Tool Tray” listed in Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965 as being implemented at Chassis B.66.UM actually refers to an Improvement to an Earlier Modification of the Tool Tray being relocated under the Driver’s Seat although it is not attributed/listed in Twenty Years Of Crewe Bentleys 1946-1965 ? With respect to the Enlarged Glove Box detailed by James Taylor as being implemented at Chassis B.66.UM, I am remote from the cars at the moment. However, from the measurement I have been given, B.10.TN and B.24 TN appear to have the same size Glove Boxes as B.20.RT (First R-Type Delivered), B.173.TO and B.315.TO. Will appreciate any information with regard to the Enlarged Glove Box implemented at B.66.UM. Probably simple explanations for these conundrums. Thus Richard and anyone else, all information and assistance you can provide will be appreciated. Thanks, Johnny (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Norman Geeson Unregistered guest Posted From: 80.3.128.7 |
John Hope you are having a good day! You said “Research is always interesting and Richard Treacy’s postings regarding the Dash Facia/ Centre Sliding Picnic Tables fitted to R-Types opens up questions with regard to information in Reference Books.” Inadvertently you have almost raised another thread, that of Reference Books. The Bentley Drivers Club booklet is indeed worth its weight in gold, but please, do not count the other publication in any way a reference book. The best you can do is to tear out pages 18 to 53 and enjoy the wonderful photographs, whilst ignoring the text. I have a title for it, “Never have so few mislead so many” Returning to the discussion in hand. The metallic facia was introduced at B2 TN and included all the points you mention and more. All the modifications in the publications are copies of the abbreviated R-R published list of alterations; they in turn laid emphasis on the main perceived modification. Even using the facia modification that you quote it would be impossible to list all the alterations that accompanied this change, in fact the entire dashboard seems to have been altered. Moving on to say the underseat tool tray, for instance, there is no mention of the alteration to the driver’s seat that accompanied this change, but you accept this omission, and so does everyone else. The list of the additional mods is endless. I think you have misunderstood the brief terminology of “Improved Type Underseat Tool Tray”, how about “Improved tool tray NOW fitted under the drivers seat”. If you look down a list of R-R modifications you will see that very few were actually in sight of the driver, but once an interior alteration is made it has to be “Improved…., otherwise the owner might ask why has this been altered. The heart of the matter is that it is difficult at times to describe major engineering changes in less than 10 words. The major point to remember with all these modifications is that the list refers to “Continuous embodiment in production”. Often the mod can be seen at least two chassis sequences up stream to the continuous production introduction, hence your TN series with underseat tool trays. Making the subject even worse to understand is that sometimes the alteration was withdrawn and not always noted in the publicised list. No doubt (tongue in cheek) you have realised that the dealer modification publication does not list all the TO, TN, UL and later series automatic chassis you have quoted as having, say 1952 gearboxes in 1953 cars. Or for that matter that they are all Detroit produced Pontiac gearboxes with R-R extension shafts, i.e. early gearboxes in late cars. If you refer to the ripped out pages of your other publication you might even find you own one of the 2000 odd R types produced with steel fuel tanks, which it infers do not exist. I am afraid these cars are very individualistic. It is a very brave man who specifically quotes all modification changes to specific chassis numbers. Having said that, you can download all the Chassis modifications, with some additional comment from web site www.kda132.com , note the preface discussion. Regards Norman Norman Geeson (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Peter Markham Unregistered guest Posted From: 138.217.39.78 |
In a very happy ending to this story I can advise that the dash and windscreen surround are to be re-united with the original car from which they were stolen during restoration up to 15 years ago. Thank you to all who contributed. (Message approved by david_gore) |
