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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Monday, 21 September, 2009 - 08:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello everyone,

I've just joined this forum because I've been pondering purchasing a Roller (probably get kicked out for saying Roller) for a year or so and I 'spose I'll keep on pondering until I find something I particularly like, something like this:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=6758079&ref=Item&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal%7c0%7c%7cpCar_RankSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cpCar_Model_String%7c0&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294959600&__Nne=15

Hope the link worked, it's a 1985 Spirit, 150000klms and the asking price is 30 grand. I've restored motorcycles in the past and I'm handy with a spanner although I'm no mechanic. I'm familiar with the brake accumulator problem and I also understand the suspension in these machines need a lot of love.

Just looking at it, it seems to tick all the boxes, good service history, no Everflex roof(I hear they can cause rust), Australian delivery. I know you can't actually tell from the link and the tiny amount of info therein if it's a worthwhile 'investment' but I was wondering if there are some standard questions I should ask the owner before I go take a look?

Anyhoo, happy to be here and thanks in advance,

Stralya.(Will be my username just as soon as I'm cleared to join the forum)

(Message approved by david_gore)
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N. Craig Bryant
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 68.6.89.150
Posted on Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 - 02:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mr. Tyson,

Welcome, and best wishes finding a good car. As you say, not much advice can be given just from the listing, but perhaps a little from the photos.

The lower front seat cushions seem to have suffered from a not so great upholsterer. If you will compare to the rear seats, you will see how much the quality differs. The 'crowning' to the bolster, the proper 'stuffing' of the pleats, so that they are not flat. If you feel the car is a good car, it certainly could merit a re-do of the fronts.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Frequent User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 99
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 07:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

An '85 Spirit on carbs? Can that be right? I thought they were all injected after 1980 or so.
Also, the front seat squabs seem a little flat for the claimed mileage (which I think is excessive for the year).
The ones on The Old Girl - a 1976 Silver Shadow - are better than that and she 'only' has 93k miles on the clock!
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1975
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No Jan,

Injection was standard for the 1987 MY cars, Chassis 20,000. For most markets, the cars have carburettors until the 1987 Model Year. There are some exceptions like California which started fuel injection with the very last Silver Shadow IIs. The rest of the USA, and Japan, followed with the first SZs. Australian cars came later, with Australian-spec cars being injected around Chassis 14,000 in 1986. Personal imports of secondhand cars before Chassis 20,000 from the UK or Hong Kong will of course have SU HIF7s.

As to mileage, that is a low number of kilometres for the year. Watch out, as it has probably been clocked judging by the pictures. That distance is less than half that of my 1987 Turbo R, just recommissioned after two years and shipping, and a fifth of my R-Type - the R-Type has only done a few miles since 1988 when I moved abroad. At just 6,000km annually, and that's an average, that Silver Spirit has been seriously underdriven. It's well under half of our T-Series mileage too, and it has been driven only a few thousand miles yearly, albeit it decent trips weekly, since around 1992. Mind you, mileage is only bad when too low as in this example, and condition is all with these cars of course. If the car has been driven regularly, say weekly or fortnightly, and not just on short trips, maybe 6,000 yearly is acceptable.


RHT.
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Craig, I hadn't noticed that, well spotted. The other thing that concerns me is I think the ad may have been placed by someone other than the actual owner. If you look at the list of 'features' at the bottom of the advertisement, it includes fuel injection. I'm no expert but didn't fuel injection first appear in the 1986 machine? I also noticed, in the photo of the engine, a dirty great carby! It's a private listing but something tells me it's been 'sexed up' a bit by perhaps a broker.

The scariest thing though, at least to me, is the price. I would expect such a vehicle to command at least 37k. given it's alleged provenance. I'll keep looking though, and as I read somewhere in this forum, the very best vehicles aren't actually advertised, they are 'passed on to good homes' by owners who want their beautiful machines respected and preserved.

Thanks for the reply, most appreciated.

Dan.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 908
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The vehicle "ID" in the listing is also suspect - need chassis number and engine numbers to check if it has been a club car during its life.
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John Shostrom
Frequent User
Username: silvawraith2

Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 02:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree with David -- get the chassis number and see if the car has ever been in the Club at any point during its life. Also, get copies of the service history and read them carefully. I'd be rather suspect about those front seat cushions -- surely a car with such low mileage wouldn't have required a retrim there, and a pretty shoddy retrim it is.
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Dave Burbidge
New User
Username: ovation

Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 03:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think I recognise the workshop where the car is located and I am sure the car was there then. I agree the seats did look odd. Watch out for the mechanic - he sold be a bottle of mineral oil for $120 before I found out how much it really costs.He told me he buys in bulk and passes on the savings !!!! These guys think because we buy Rolls Royces we are rich and stupid.
The car is probably worth less than the asking price.
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John Shostrom
Frequent User
Username: silvawraith2

Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 03:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Very good points, Dave, and all things considered, I'd agree with you about that asking price as well.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 101
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 07:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I can only assume that you Antipodeans do more mileage than we Brits. From seeing a lot of UK based Shadows on sale it would seem that the 93k miles on The Old Girl is quite high for her age!
Mind you, with some of you having front driveways in the order of 100 klicks long ...
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 01:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David,
I think the vehicle I.D. in the ad is just a Carpoint reference number but if I were to make the journey to the Gold Coast to inspect the vehicle I would most certainly obtain the chassis and engine numbers prior to doing so. I don't think I will though. Richard and Craig make good points in relation to the apparent wear to the front seats. I'm now also concerned about the claimed mileage. I thought this year model wasn't fuel injected, this must have been an error made by the person placing the ad which couldn't have been the owner.

Thanks for all your efforts, I'll keep looking and in the meantime, if anyone has some info on a 'good-un' becoming available, feel free to drop me an email. (Just wishful thinking)

Thanks again,
Dan Tyson.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 164
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 09:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just wishful thinking?

Not neccessarily Dan. I found my Shadow by placing an ad in the 'Wanted' section of these forums. The other place to look is in Praeclarum (worth the RROCA membership fee alone if you're looking for one of these cars)

As a general rule for buying (and one which has been laboured here and elsewhere) have a pre-purchase inspection done on any car you're even remotely interested in.

I had 3 done before I bought and calculated that at the end I'd saved many thousands of dollars for every hundred I spent.

These cars can be very seductive on first meeting but you don't want to end up with a girl with a bad past. Your car is out there waiting. You just have to be persistent...and patient.

There is a least one reputable shop in every Capital city offering pre-purchase reports. If a seller baulks at doing this - walk away.

Cheers,

Jeff
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James Feller
Frequent User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 85
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gents,

I think you are being most unfair on this 'old girl' regarding her front seats and where she has ended up for sale. Lets face it, the seats are pretty easy to get re-upholstered for not a huge amount. It is near on IMPOSSIBLE to gauge the true condition from 5 pictures and a little 'ad patter' about the car. If you like it Dan, go have a look.
I agree make sure the service history is up to date, and get an expert to have a look at it to check there is nothing major lurking...
Let me distroy the myth right now Dan, there is ALWAYS something to do with these fabulous and intoxicating machines.
Mine are both great cars with excellent Australian provinences and servcie histories but I still need to get stuff done to them regularily to keep them in tip top condition. These are not NEW cars anymore, yes they are very well built but if they have not had regular servicing and attention there could be 'issues waiting'
Aussie cars as Richard points out had fuel injection by the 1986 built year model. This car is an 85 so yes has twin SU carbs, nothing wrong with them.
To discount it from 5 pictures on the internet because it has 150K and the front seats are a little tired is silly. If you are geographically close and it appeals to you go see it. You never know if could be great, also it could shitbox...
Dan, the best advice is to be patient and look at as many as you can. Condition, service history and provinence are the most important things to look for.

Good luck and go look at as many as you can in the flesh!

Cheers

J
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1976
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 25 September, 2009 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

$

Don't be too put off by a few thousand $ or so; look at the car for its value. Count on buying the car and spending $10,000 to be mobile if bought locally.

I have just put my excellent Turbo R back on the road in Canberra.

There have been no repair costs.

After $12,000 shipping, $7,500 GST, $800 quarantine and $6,000 duty, it started again.

On every car, you will still have:

ACT stamp duty $1000
Child restraints $1300
Number plates $670
Registration $400
Third party insurance $400 ?+/-
Aircon service as a precaution $ 400
Comprehensive insurance $ whatever

Routine service by me, oils and bits about $120, probably $500 at a shop. Add $2,000 if you have any leaks, and for repairs add whatever you think. Maybe $2,000 each for an ECU for the aircon or seats.

And the rest.

There is quite a bit of room in there for a mere upholstery cleanup.

RHT.
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 09:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G'day Jeff,
How long have you been reading minds?

Who does them in Sydney? I really don't want to travel interstate to be heartbroken, I'd much prefer to have it done locally. I'm so impressed by the help I've been given here so far I think I will join as an associate member.

When I do find my Lady, I'll have you and the members here to thank. Funny thing about these Ladies though, they ALL love me, I know they do because I can hear them telling me. Now, with your help, I'll be better able to sort the Ladies from the Belle's de Jour if you know what I mean.

Dan Tyson.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Friday, 25 September, 2009 - 05:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

I'm prepared to spend a few bob on anything I end up with but I'm not interested in a 'money pit'. I'm going to be careful and go with a pre purchase report, that way at least I have some idea what I'm up for. I, too, will do my own servicing, I love that sort of thing. My humble bike cost's me $800 a year just in CTP!!! I know about paying through the nose and I know it's unavoidable in some cases but if I'm smart/lucky I'll be able to keep costs down. Child restraints? You mean some sort of device designed to keep kids from pawing the duco as they wander past?

(Message approved by david_gore)
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Thursday, 24 September, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi James,
You know, I've been thinking hard about that Spirit and given the advice I've received so far I'm going to look for the Lady I originally fell in love with, or one of her cousins. It was a 1969 Mk 1 shadow I saw in Giltraps Auto Museum when I was 13! Yes, it was brand new then, only there as a promotion as I remember, but I did my nuts (such as they were). I'm not going to write off the spirit just yet though, I'll ask the advertiser if he/she will allow a pre-purchase report as Jeffery suggests and see what happens.

As far as looking at as many as I can in the flesh is concerned, as soon as I look at one, I'm 13 again! I need to avoid that.

Dan (nonuts) Tyson.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Thomas
New User
Username: davidthomas

Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, 25 September, 2009 - 03:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dan - if you ever need a car inspected in Melbourne, I recommend you contact Robert Chapman of Chapman Automotive in Bayswater. Two years ago he did a pre-purchase inspection on, what is now, my 1975 Shadow SRH20104 and has serviced it ever since. He is very thorough!

Good luck with your search. Take your time and you will be well rewarded.

David
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 165
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, 25 September, 2009 - 04:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dan, there are several around the Sydney area.

To be fair I've only dealt with Garreth Will in Moss Vale, who I have no hesitation in recommending. There is also Paradise Garage and another RR specialist in Brookvale.

There is one guy in Brisbane who is recommended by people who should know, but search as I might I can't find his name in the forum posts, even though I know it's there somewhere. I'll keep looking. Unless someone else can help?

Good luck and happy hunting - the reason I ended up buying mine was almost the same as yours - the first Shadows were the only cars that ever stopped me in my tracks as a kid. Also I was 50 before I went through the trauma of buying a car and decided I never wanted to go through that experience again, so I'd get my teenage sweetheart and mortgage my soul (and my grandmother plus the cats) for her.

Two years later and I still can't keep my hands off her ....
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Eugene Oleinik
Experienced User
Username: eugenerus

Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 02:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You guys must have totally different prices.
If that car was in the UK, it would probably cost no more than 10k. Given the mileage, it would probably be no more than 8k. The early Spirits (I) are a fraction cheaper than later ones (II and above), partly because of the carburettors and of course the number of cars manufactured (8100+).
I would also recommend Spur if possible. They tend to have more features, more leg room and usually cost as much.
Pay a bit more and save 10s of thousands later.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 102
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 03:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Eugene: The market value of any item depends almost solely on supply and demand (excluding those occasions where the seller has a virtual monopoly). Particularly old or classic vehicles.
eg. Many high end models of Rovers, Fords or most other cars of the same age would command a higher price than a Shadow or Spirit because far fewer of them have survived to the present day. Add to this the perceived running costs such as fuel, insurance and spares/repairs it is hardly surprising that the demand for Rolls Royces is lower and they tend to go 'for a song' in comparison. I've no idea how many Rolls were officially exported to Oz, but I doubt it's anything like as many as sold at home.
Even so, I've seen so-called low mileage Shadows and Spirits with windscreen prices of over 20k!
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 08:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Eugene,

I found this on Carpoint, thought you might like a look at it.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7704898&__sid=12186CBB77DE&__Qpb=true&Cr=5&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal%7c0%7c%7cpCar_RankSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cpCar_Model_String%7c0&keywords=&__N=834%201216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294959600%20898&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=18&silo=1011

Dan

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Colin Silver
Frequent User
Username: colsilver

Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 05:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


quote:

D said.(Stralya Will be my username just as soon as I'm cleared to join the forum)




Good to see you here D. I hope they let you have the nick, but the crusties here like real names

I had to use my real name, but would have preferred a nickname like ChunkyBoy.

I'm pleased you are looking at Royces and hopefully Bentleys as well. A lot need rescuing.

If you do end up buying one, aim to make it better or in the same condition if you decide to pass it on.

There aren't a lot made in comparison to other vehicles. If we can keep these vehicles intact - technology in the coming decades will maintenance of them easier and cheaper.
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Dan Tyson
Yet to post message
Username: stralya

Post Number: 1
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 06:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Colin,

Well looks like I got approved with Stralya after all.

Feel free to call me Dan though.

Dan.
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D.Tyson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 121.218.203.125
Posted on Saturday, 26 September, 2009 - 06:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Colin,

I was wondering why it seems to be taking so long to be registered. I'm happy to use my real name, Stralya is a nick I've used on boards for years but Dan Tyson will do.

I expect my search to last over a year, I'm in no hurry. There are some real horror stories on this board, makes me think hard about getting a Royce, but since when did thinking have anything to do with buying a Rolls-Royce?

I'm going to be stabbed through the neck now. I've always considered Bentley's to be sports versions of Rollers. I'll have a look though.

Dan Tyson.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 105
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, 27 September, 2009 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In reverse order:
Yes, the Crewe crew always did consider the Bentley to be a younger and less refined sibling to the true Rolls Royce despite them having identical underpinnings!
Some less ... sophisticated ... individuals (Prince Charles ) often claim to prefer them. The last time Old Chuck went walkabout in the Antipodes he had a Rolls shipped out ahead of time, converted into the equivalent Bentley and when he was done with converted back and shipped home again. Who says he's out of touch with reality?
As for your user name: The admin will get around to it eventually. When you're up to your elbows in grease the forum tends to take a back seat! Anyway, your real name will always be used preferentially so I don't know why they bother letting us have user names.
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Brian Crump
Frequent User
Username: brian_crump

Post Number: 53
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Sunday, 27 September, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now I wonder if this story about Charles is fact or fantasy? Since fantasies abound I suspect it may well be one - even if a rather 'nice' one...
Regards,
Brian Crump
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Colin Silver
Frequent User
Username: colsilver

Post Number: 94
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Sunday, 27 September, 2009 - 06:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sorry Strayla, I see you as Dan Tyson. My username is colsilver, but I come up as Colin Silver.

Ha ha, you lucked out. So be careful what you say here, as, despite this nice forum program, you will be recorded for millenia (if that is a word).

As I write, you have been approved, but yet to post under your name. I hope you stay with us. You sound like a bloke I could team up with and give some of the older possums a rev.

I hope you live the dream of the roller. Prices are good. As the possums have pointed out, the Royce you were looking at didn't seem to match the kilometres.

Possibly a 1/4 extra in purchase price for the model you want might end up saving you 8/4 in repairs and restoration.
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Dan Tyson
New User
Username: stralya

Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Sunday, 27 September, 2009 - 07:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G'day Colin,

How old is older? I'm 52 but could easily pass for 90!

All the advice so far seems to be 'take your time' so I will. I was thinking though, since I love getting in amongst it, I should volunteer here somewhere as a labourer for one of you who might be doing a bit of work on your vehicle. You'd get a free if utterly incompetent assistant and I'd get experience working on these amazing machines. I'm in the Ryde area of Sydney.

Dan.
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Colin Silver
Frequent User
Username: colsilver

Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Sunday, 27 September, 2009 - 08:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well Dan, we're the same age. Whilst everyone in this forum is on my 'like' list, I think I am on a few people's 'ignore' list.

Definitely take your time studying what vehicle you want. Who knows, you may want to 'Roll' back into my the vintage of my Silver Cloud.

If you do, go for a Cloud III (oh, I have to mention the Bentley too) - which will give you more 'modern' mechanics, along with the unbeatable style line of a Silver Cloud.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 106
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, 28 September, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Anybody else noticed that the new Ghost could have looked much like a Cloud had they just made a couple of minor changes to the swage line on the wings and fitted different headlights?