| Author | Message | ||
     Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear List, Having taken half a day off, I invested my afternoon doing what I do for a living: patents... I searched, just for the fun of it, the published patents of Rolls Royce motorcars that might have been relevant to the 1990 models and found some very nice examples of technologies that they patented in the 70's and 80´s. There are turbocharged Wankel engines, twin crankshaft (H-configuration) engines, hybrid generator/drive drivelines. the list goes on. I selected the funniest and put them in a list that I will post below. You can just type the number in google and you will get the patent through many of the free patent viewing services. Or you can use the much better European Patent Office search tool, just copy and paste the number: http://ep.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP I am quite sure that you will have a good laugh thinking of your Shadow with that nice hybrid drive and a turbocharged Wankel... See you. Lluís | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2007 |
RR Turbocharged Wankel engine: GB1468087 Details of said engine: GB1437528 Injection system for said engine: GB1435728 Beautiful rotor GB1459039 Flywheel generator and starter (as in Prius): GB1513871 H-configuration engine GB2038936 What amazes me the most is that some of these ideas were actually patented by RR in many countries, so someone in RR must have taken more or less seriuosly these ideas. And well, I love this one WO9400316 (retractor for mascot). In case you zoom in, you will see that either the engineer or the patent attorney had some sense of humour: the "flying lady" has a really naughty/smily expression. (Message edited by Lluís on 04 September 2009) | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2007 |
And by the way, in case anybody would like to have publication numbers of some relevant patents for 1990's models (wiper system, boost control systems, seat belts, Airbag deployment, etc...) just let me know. | ||
| John Shostrom Frequent User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 91 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hi Lluis, thank you so much for this fascinating information! I've just had a look, and am enthralled. This is definitely the sort of historical information that can really give us an idea of what Rolls-Royce were thinking at the time. Well done! Regards, John | ||
| John Shostrom Frequent User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2005 |
By the way Lluis, I'd be interested to learn more about RR's airbag deployment designs -- I clearly recall some years back that the BMW people told me it was impossible to supply airbags behind veneered panels. Certainly that was not true, and I always felt the job done on passenger airbags by RR for later SZ and the Seraph/Arnage range was very well-executed. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 97 Registered: 8-2007 |
It is possible, as set forth is the following patent publication from, yes, RR. WO9308043 | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2007 |
Thinking about these things: yes , whereas they actually developed them in house and were really interested in them, is another story that cannot be deduced from a mere pat. application. But I also found them fascinating. I believe that at least some of the applications do however correspond to real in-house developments that never saw the light: for example the five speed automatic of 1979 GB2031531 (Message edited by Lluís on 04 September 2009) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 903 Registered: 4-2003 |
Regarding the turbo-charged Wankel engine - I have followed up on this engine in the past and have been told it was a project for the UK armed forces. R-R were given a brief to develop a diesel version of the Wankel engine. The engineering staff at Crewe determined the only feasible way of achieving the compression ratio necessary for the diesel engine to function was to use a two chamber rotary design with the first stage acting as a supercharger to force feed air into the second stage where fuel was injected and compression ignition would occur. The seals of a rotary engine were not capable of withstanding the pressures necessary in a single chamber engine to achieve compression ignition. Anecdotal comment from a Crewe employee at the time indicated that whenever the rotary diesel was tested, the noise was incredible and the factory was filled with exhaust smoke. The complaints to management tested the vocabulary of the complainants. The Wankel diesel engine never got past the prototype stage and reportedly was shelved in favour of a traditional reciprocating diesel engine design. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 99 Registered: 8-2007 |
Oh dummy, I was so excited with the idea of a Royce with a vibration less Wankel... No seriously, indeed, the latest documents concerning the Wankel engine deal with the seals and a diesel indirect injection system, I did not find any twin-chamber engine, however. Maybe they did not apply for protection after all. I think that the gearboxes from 1978-1980 are however fascinating and most probably for the road cars. (Message edited by Lluís on 04 September 2009) | ||
| Nigel Johnson Experienced User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2008 |
Rolls Royce would have had to take out a licence to develope a Wankel engine. Or be linked with someone who did. BSA were linked with Fichtel and Sachs, but F and S did not have manufacturing rights to make engines in BSA's desired HP rating. In 1971 BSA took up a licence from Audi-NSU to produce engines in the 35 to 60 hp bracket. The cost was 129,000 pounds. The BSA engine had twin contrarotating rotors so I can see how the supercharging was achieved.The RR Patents are after BSA had gone to the wall, so I wonder if RR and Norton pooled resources. Regards, Nigel. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 904 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Nigel, R-R did take out a licence from Wankel - this is how I first became aware of this part of R-R's history. The best part for R-R would have been the fact that the British Government paid for their experimentation from the Defence Budget. No doubt the engineers made the most of this opportunity  . |
