| Author | Message | ||
     Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2009 |
Out of morbid curiosity I'd really like to know where forum members, especially the owners of older models, feel the line should be drawn between preservation and bastardisation. The other day I was thinking, how can I keep this Shadow I on the road with little or no costs apart from regular servicing for the next 10 years? AND, this is a big and, do it for say 10-15k. Several things came to mind. Ride height control: I do know in the UK it is common for the '80 vintage series (W126 one of the better put together cars around) Mercedes to simply block off the rear height levelling hydraulic lines and put in a standard pair of springs and shocks. A hugely cheaper alternative option when the pump and shocks failed. Lets face it 99% of all cars make do with out it, not that its nice but is it really worth it? Engine: A GenIII 6.0 litre GM (Out of the box new AU$6000+ECU and harness) engine will mate just fine to a TH400 gearbox. With custom mounts and headers to mate with the standard exhaust configuration you would have a leak free engine giving HP for a lot less fuel, cheap spare parts and another 10 years of easy service. General hydraulics: To adapt the hydraulics a belt driven pump with a toothed belt drive (they are out there rated at 2600psi and 2gal/min for about US$300-400) could be fitted where the smog pump would go in US versions and a single 1 litre modern accumulator fitted in line. Power steering would be accommodated buy the common GM pump. With these few(and yes major)mods you could have an almost maintenance free vehicle for a decade. Sure, not standard internally, but the grand old girl would be around for many a year to come. Would it be that bad? Would it be worth it? Would it be sacrilege? Would anyone care? As I said just curious. Cheers Ross | ||
| Chris Gillings Frequent User Username: chrisg Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2001 |
(Okay, I'll feed the troll.  ) For a while I owned a Series II Morris Minor in mediocre but original condition. I joined the MM Owners Club but only once joined them for a run. My car was, as far as I could tell, the only original out of several dozen that attended. The others had all or some of: radial tyres, Morris Major brakes, Datsun engines, Celica gearboxes, etc. My car's only concession to modernity was safety: seatbelts, a VERY loud klaxon horn and flashing indicators to replace the trafficators. I found myself wondering if they actually didn't like MMs. I couldn't see the point: "If you want a Morris Minor that goes faster, stops and handles better than a Morris Minor, why do you own one?" The first things I did to my MkVI when I first bought it was to revert a couple of 'modernisations' to original. On my family's 1910 Silver Ghost it's the added on modern fuel pump and CD ignition that have caused me the most trouble and frustration. Others will express it better than me, but I think the appeal of a Rolls-Royce (or any other marque) is holistic. Thus a bitser or mongrel RR/B doesn't interest me at all. And if you have any aspirations for RROCA club concours, such a car will be scored poorly by the judges. (Message edited by chrisg on 18 August 2009) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1889 Registered: 4-2003 |
Perhaps you should buy a Hummer and graft a fibreglass replica Silver Shadow body onto the chassis. Maybe one of those Chinese Phantom lookalikes would do the trick. Or buy a Rolex and put a Swatch movement in it for accuracy. It would still impress the bling gang in their Fiat Puntos and WRXs with the blacked out windows and 100W subwoofers. ps: the SY and SZ transmissions are standard THM400/3L80s inside, but the bellhousing casting and length are quite different. And, since when was a GM motor superior to our fabulous V8s for the Crewe application ? Remember that the Arnage Green Label was such a flop with its torqueless BMW twin-turbo V8 that they had to put the genuine Crewe V8 back quick smart and rename it the Red Label. | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2009 |
I get what what you're saying Chris, and I'm sorry you think I'm just trolling, as I said just curious. I understand the up turned nose at the "bitser or mongrel" and I understand to the purist that high level mods may be some sort of heresy (and I respect your opinion)but what I'm trying to suggest is that as parts get scarcer and scarcer is it really that bad an option. Yes I agree it would be great to have every part original but the fact remains that's not always going to be an option. The way I see it is we have two choices: 1: Have a complete original car, parked 99% of the time, taken out only on special occasions as to limit the ware on the vehicle. 2: Embrace some change so the car can still be used as a daily drive. It will look the same, smell the same, handle the same. But the difference being the drive train being updated. Myself, I believe it's worth departing from the (invisible)original parts to keep these cars on the road. I for one cannot afford to replace every worn part with an original on an on going basis, as much as I'd like to. What I can afford to do is upgrade the running gear once so that I can keep the beautiful chassis on the road. Lets face it, cars like these have personality, unlike the generic stamped units of today. Is it worth it to embrace some change, (and not be spurned at club meetings) I think so. I'd like to see my car on the road for many years to come and I don't think means I should have to sell it on to someone that can afford all original parts. At the end of the day I could probably turn up at a meet, leave the bonnet down and no one would know the difference. I understand what you mean but if a car is to be used the parts that wear will not always be around. Cheers Ross | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1891 Registered: 4-2003 |
and pps: if a Silver Shadow rides on its levelling in all but laden conditions, the springs are shot anyhow. An SY, unlike the SZs, should not have its levelling above the end stop under normal conditions. If it has Australian-spec springs, the levelling is barely needed even when fully laden. However, it is there to maintain the vehicle's behaviour under all conditions. Crewe cars are not meant to be cheap and nasty. Had I done such downgrades to our T-Series, R-Type or Turbo R 10 years ago, they would all be on the scrapheap by now. | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2009 |
Richard, believe me, like I said above, I'd love to keep original. Just floating the alternatives. Hope this won't ostracise me. There just comes a time when the average Joe has to consider alternatives rather than sell up and walk away. This is nothing that has to happen soon but in the long term it has to be considered ( for me anyway). The spare parts will not be around for ever. Cheers Ross (Message edited by rosco on 19 August 2009) (Message edited by rosco on 19 August 2009) (Message edited by rosco on 19 August 2009) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1892 Registered: 4-2003 |
The alternative is a Continental R. The most smashing vehicle ever built. | ||
| Robert Wort Grand Master Username: robert_wort Post Number: 392 Registered: 12-2004 |
My personal preference is a PVI but it’s horses for courses I suppose Richard, but as you know, I am a Rolls-Royce Man. Ross, When you cut out the heart of a Rolls-Royce, i.e. the engine and replace it with something else, it ceases to be a Rolls-Royce. I wouldn’t worry too much about there being any shortage of parts. The RREC is one of the world’s largest car clubs and I think it would be fair to say that as far as classic and collectable cars go, our marque is one of the most (if not, THE most) maintained cars on the road, thanks to the large number of enthusiasts (not to mention the original build quality of the car in the first place). A large following attracts a large number of specialist restorers and the cost of parts for these cars, while still regarded as expensive by some, have dramatically reduced over the years. My Silver Spur's average parts cost is, in many cases cheaper than the parts cost on my wife’s Mazda and if you look at the cost of replacement parts on some models of the Honda brand, ours can be a positive bargain by comparison. When I had my Silver Cloud (1978 – 2000, a 1958 model that I personally drove for over 400,000 miles), I needed to replace the kingpins back in 1981. They cost me $9,000 (compare that to the cost of a house back then). These same parts are now considerably cheaper thanks to companies that reproduce them. The ball joint on my Silver Spur (ANC04359) was replaced a few years ago for only a couple of hundred dollars. There are also murmurs going around that some companies are seriously looking at casting new engine blocks to original specs so I think supplies will be around for awhile yet and let us not forget that the earliest examples of these marvellous V8’s are still going strong and will continue to do so with proper maintenance, and there will still be plenty of Silver Shadows left on the road with these original engines long after I have kicked the bucket; so there is no excuse really to ‘bastardise’ these marvellous cars. With the current economic situation, there a loads of examples of these cars in excellent condition available on the market at prices less than a small Korean shopping cart, so why settle for anything less? While I respect your opinion Ross, I plead with you to respect the marque. Keep it the way the company designed it. If you really think a GM powerplant is better, then buy a Holden and give someone else a chance to preserve these cars in the manner that they were originally intended. | ||
| Stephe Boddice Frequent User Username: stephe_boddice Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2005 |
Ross, I think you will have realised by now that your musings have touched a raw nerve, not just in Australia but throughout the RR&B community. Survival rates for the RR&B marques are amongst the highest of all manufacturers. As the factory-made spares disappear they will be replaced by units made by the specialist suppliers because the economics work. There is a world-wide group of specialists that form a formal supply network for all models from the Silver Ghost onwards. Check out http://www.rrbsa.co.uk/ Stop fretting, don't annoy the natives, fix your car with the correct parts and enjoy the experience. SB www.boddice.co.uk (Message edited by stephe boddice on 19 August 2009) | ||
| Brian Crump Experienced User Username: brian_crump Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2007 |
Ross - you do raise some interesting points about the cost of ownership but the underlying question is "What do I own?" If I own a Morris Minor with a Nissan engine then what is it? It certainly could not be called a Morris Major...  If I own a Mercedes-Benz that has lost its self-levelling (no, mine is still intact and will remain so) then what do I own? A car that does not perform as its makers intended. The joy of owning and caring for a car is partly the joy of preserving a slice of time and engineering that was made by real people endeavouring to create a synthesis of engineering ideas. One must choose between keeping it that way or developing a child of a different nature - that is creating a 'Special'. When I found the PII that stole my heart (and wallet) it came with a Bosch electric fuel pump which I consigned to the rubbish bin. The original Autovac required a Kevlar heat shield to protect it from excess heat but that is part of the satisfaction of a 75 year old car. I do admit that I often run a hand over its guards and take great pleasure in knowing that it has survived the last 75 years without being tortured by bastardisation - and then assure it that under my care it will not suffer the pain of being turned into a Rat-Rod or similar bastard child of peverted excess. I mean, if I put a modern motor into a 75 year old motor car whose engine was created by a Master of Engineering then what have I go in the end? A Shadow can be cared for in an appropriate manner without engine transplants and the like and isn't part of the appeal the fact that the V8 motor is of such good design that it has remained in production from the 1950s right through to today? If one wants a Lincoln Continental then one buys a Lincoln. If one wants a Royce one buys a Royce. C'est simple? May I invite you to join the RROCA (NSW Branch) where you will meet people who can and will encourage you in your efforts to keep the Shadow a Shadow? If you like, I can email you a membership application form. Regards, Brian Crump | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1154 Registered: 4-2003 |
Er Brian I am still alive here. I have yet to meet Ross but we have corresponded. After these exchanges I realise that he is probably heavily into masochism so I'll dig out the whips and chains for a Club flogging if he so desires. Whatever he wants to do, I can certainly use a comrade d'auto to avoid the tedious cucumber and pate sandwich mob! The nearest 'operating' enthusiast is 36 miles away from me. Ross is just over the lake. Mind you if he puts his recent ponderings into practice I will have the white coat men standing by!! Meanwhile the bastardisation of vehicles whatever the make is a universal disease. There is some strange program run on the Fox TV network that deals with customising stock cars. Personally, though the work from what is shown is fantastic it is really one very expensive wank. But the end result whilst usually fascinating or an incredably fine bit of craftmanship, it is no longer a Hudson or Kaiser, Tucker or De Soto! One of the earliest traumas I had in this Club that actually involved my car a 1951 Silver Dawn which I had stripped to the bare chassis and rebuilt and which I financed my efforts through renting out the children and putting the wife on the street, after some two years I finally turned up at a Club Rally only to find a fleet of the things lined up like Yellow Cabs! It was like having Shaparelli make the frock of the year and turning up at a reception and finding 14 other women dressed in the same creation. But we live with this and hopefully compare notes with those owners who have actually opened the bonnets. The prewar mob are in a different country. They have had to find out the hard way how a thing works or simply keep the thing in the garage and stroke it! All power to them and the results of their efforts are there to be seen and I instance Chris' 1910 Ghost - God that is older that I am! Finally, there is an aspect to all this that is in my opinion a little unhealthy and that is the Roycean aura that some owners perceive about their car. People who have these cars and for whatever reason use them oddly are often shunned by the concours types for starters. During the Millenium Rally in Canberra someone turned up in a two door SY coupe painted matt black. I did not see it but he was virtually driven away and to this day I have not been able to find that car. The owner can be sedated and confined while the car can be recovered but let's not lose the car!! If someone had turned up in a Legalimit with a Mr Whippy van strapped to it would the owner have been driven away?? The late Terry Bruce was surely the best prophylaxis against this attitude that any member could desire! | ||
| Brian Crump Experienced User Username: brian_crump Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2007 |
Dear Bill, I am as partial to a Cucumber Sandwich and glass of Pimms as I am to rebuilding my suspension. The two are not mutually exclusive so long as one remembers that the white gloves go with the Pimms and not the oil change. A Legalimit with a Mr Whippy atop would be mixing ones eras, would it not?  Anyway, I make my own ice-cream. Regards, Brian Crump | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1155 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ah but Brian you know you are a rare breed. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1156 Registered: 4-2003 |
ER,, for the manager the time seems to be an hour out or is it me?? [Admin's Note: Well spotted, Bill. The server was still set to AEST. Now fixed.] (Message edited by admin on 19 August 2009) | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2009 |
In many ways it’s great to see such a passionate group of enthusiasts. Please don’t lose sight of the fact that my ponderings are just a suggestion of what could be done when or if parts become unavailable or priced beyond reach of mere mortals. Fingers crossed that will not happen and by some of your comments things don’t look too bad. However in a worse case scenario would anyone really know if that lovely old Shadow rolling down the road was modified in the ways I suggested? And remember, changes to a drive train while major are unseen. I understand and to an extent agree with many of the objections but these are options to keep a car on the road. It’s not as if I’m suggesting slamming the front end, painting it Ford Acid Green and putting a two foot spoiler on the boot lid. | ||
| KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 97 Registered: 10-2004 |
If a Shadow is well maintained and serviced regularly there should not be any real reason for an engine transplant, unless you acquired an example that was already terminal. In my personal experience a good Shadow can be pleasurable and affordable every-day transport. I have used mine as my primary transport for more than four years now, and find it less expensive to run than my previous, more modern car that was serviced by the dealers. That said, I must confess that my Bentley Mk VI, which is also in regular use, does have a few minor deviations from originality like indicators and modern fuel filters. It also features a modern radio and CD player, but that I managed to install in a location where it is completely out of sight. In summary, I have no problem with minor deviations from originality for the sake of safety and ease of maintenance, especially if it means that the car will see more regular use. What I do not care for much are pristine examples that are used as ornaments and never driven. That is a waste. Regards KC | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1896 Registered: 4-2003 |
Back in the 1970s, a Bentley was paractically unknown by the public, whereas everyone knew what a Rolls-Royce is. So, Bentley owners were smug in their inverted snobbery. Behind the grille, and especially under the skin, particularly postwar, it is a Rolls-Royce to the last bolt, but only the owners knew. Crass Flash Harry drove a "Roller" or a "Rolls". As long as it had a tombstone grille, he couldn't care less what was underneath. | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2007 |
Upgrading can be done with some cars and it is not universally wrong but the issue is: can it be done with a Royce? Bringing in a morris minor a discussion on "lumping" royces is a nice point to illustrate that modifying is not always equal to bastardising: Royces original V8 is engineering excellence, and has nothing to do with the whining and undergeared box of the minor or upgrading its engine block from 848cc to a 1275cc unit. In the minors of your club, these things were probably made not to save money but to make the car cope with modern traffic try a 848cc minor on crossplies on a raining day in a busy highway to see what I mean. I think none of this applies to royces. If you want the minor as a contemplation object to be used sparingly on quite roads with nice weather, then indeed, the original specification with crossply tires doing 5000 rpm ar 60mph is perfect, but, If you see the car as a "practical toy" that you want to preserve and also to use, then some modifications might indeed be necessary. I would not change one single bolt of my Continental R, but I bought the car as an engineering masterpiece and as a driving sculpture. Buying Da Vinci´s "Mona-Lisa" and then painting a new face to the lady would be the equivalent of lumping a yankee V8 in the Continental... you just do not do it or you bought it for the wrong reasons. On the other hand I have a 1991 Mini Cooper which my wife and I used to do amateur rally and which we still drive regularly. It has a tubular sub-frame for the engine gearbox assembly, perfect looking composite wings and bonnet, fully rose jointed and adjustable suspension, all flexible hoses are braided, the list is immense and the invoice adds up to trice the car's original price tag. Upgrading was done by spending money not to save it... But unlike the Continental the Mini was disastrously built when new by Rover and virtually each component can be upgraded or simply better put together by later owners that care probably less about cost than the original owners. Can this be done with Royces and Bentleys? I do not think so. It's difficult to improve on the original if you use it for the car's original purpose, which was not exactly cheap transportation. That's at least what I think. | ||
| Colin Silver Frequent User Username: colsilver Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2008 |
The 20 year history of a 55 year old Cloud I as I know it. Bought for $50,000, mostly original except for wedding white, some falcon push button controls on the radio and a 'rebuilt motor with jammed open thermostat'. In 18 years Dad would have spent 1000 hours plus tinkering, working, working out, researching or taking parts for repairs. The transmission was rebuilt. Broken axle re welded (common Cloud I defect) The clock repaired twice but it doesn't work now. Speedometer was repaired but doesn't work now. Head was redone - second shaving we know of. Some head bolt threads went right through, causing Dad's bolting down to include some sealing compound. Registrations and insurance for those years. Dad would have put in a minimum of $25,000 in repairs, lambswool seat covers and the above mentioned mechanical hours in maintenance that has kept the Royce in stable condition. I've had the Royce for 2 1/2 years, spent $4000 just in rego, fuel, registration, lubricants, etc. I haven't got that value in enjoyment, nor even started on the things I know have to be done to keep this majestic motor car going. I need professional Rolls help in flushing the block and radiator system and giving the car a full looking over for any upcoming problems. A few grand there I am sure I need to have a crease taken out of a door - Another few grand I think when matching paint and it may be worth taking the Royce back to its original colours. Yet the market price of her is probably $35000- Our Royces are not Aussie Falcon GT's, which are pulling 100 of thousands of dollars due to nostalgia. I've inherited (as I've said before, before I am ready) a piece of history. I've resolved to myself that I will use non OEM products that won't cause harm - as long as I keep the original/broken part/s when opportunity is in my favour. Some original parts is way beyond my allocation of income. Ross, from what I have seen in your posts resembles a very enthusiastic man who wants everything perfect and will do anything to get things perfect. But I think you might be lacking in sitting back, pondering and researching you mode of bringing your Royce to the standard you want. From the pictures I have seen, it looks lovely I really wish I had your "lets do it" attitude. I wish you well... Don't give up. Colin PS.... Can anyone confirm if Bill Coburn is really alive?  | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Colin, I won't be giving up any time soon. You seem to be in the came boat as myself. A new (old) vehicle that has some odd and unfamiliar systems can be a bit daunting at first. The main motivation behind my engine swap SUGGESTION was that IF the engine becomes uneconomical to repair, do you consider replacing it with a viable alternative or simply break the vehicle up for parts to recover as much money as possible. I think I saw the figure of $35k mentioned some where on this site for a fully refurbished engine. That’s what got me thinking as I don’t want to lose this car any time soon. Let’s face it; a Shadow I with a blown engine is worth very little. They are cheap enough as it is in good order (less than the price of an engine). IF the worst came to pass I probably would consider a transplant. The car would drive the same, smell the same, feel the same, have that same solid clunk of the door latching home, the comfy leather seats, the beautiful wood, pretty much all the things that drew me to the car in the first place. I would rather have that and be ostracized. That said I will continue to use, replace or recondition original (or the same part but generic) whenever possible and or practical. The $44 Chinese made replacement door lock actuators seem to be working just fine. Actually, just a thought as I type this, maybe hunting down another Shadow with a reasonable engine but flogged out body and interior would be something to consider in the event of catastrophic failure? Cheers Ross PS I think Bills alive, I got an email from him the other day, so he's at least twitching.  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1897 Registered: 4-2003 |
C'm on. Worst case, you can buy a complete good secondhand tested running motor with a 3 year guarantee from the UK for just AUD5,000 tops. A reconditioned one in a crate costs only AUD15,000. They will even throw in a subframe, and shipping will cost only $400, then 10% GST on the lot, then no customs duty for vehicles of that age. That would be good for another 300,000km in either case. | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2009 |
Ha! Richard, I just your post while drinking my coffee and laughed so hard it came out my nose. Time to change my shirt. If someone would have told me this after my first post we could have ended the whole thing then and there.  Oh well, not to worry. It was an interesting debate! Cheers Ross | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1157 Registered: 4-2003 |
This is to confirm that I am still sucking air. And thank you Colin for asking. Actually I have been absorbed in rebuilding a Shadow motor which I doing gratis labour because I wanted to practice on someone else's car before I invade my languishing S2. The one area of these cars that keep my bowels bubbling is the vee eight motor. The tales of woe beat the average American's fear of universal health cover! Ross' overhaul quote of $35,000 sounds about the figure casually tossed around the Moet and canapes groups one flees from from time to time! Basic bits from the Palace (some may not know that HM actually makes quite a bit of this stuff in the basment of the palace but given her other committments she can only do the work on Sunday. So given her manhour rate and apply Sunday loading you begin to understand why Her products are the price they are!) A few casual prices are pistons at $1,000 each liners $800 a set of rings $900, cam followers at about another $1000 each bearings together about $3,000 a complete overhaul gasket set $1500 a set of cylinder seals $1000. I'll stop there. All the above is OK, the Factory have always charged what they liked for their parts so many of which were simply reboxed from other suppliers in the despatch department! One consideration of this is, imagine my telling Joe Crumpledick down at the deli that the air cleaner for my Spur was only 20 bucks when his Mazda's cost $35, if you get my drift. But relief is at hand. This fear of catastrophic engine failure has been greatly eased by some very inovative operators in this country. If your pistons have really had it there is apparently a Ford piston available in North America which is excellent. American rings are rountinely used with a small clean out of the oil groove, liners are made in Australia and aftermarket Vanderville bearings are readily available which require a small engine mod to get them in! If you crack your block welding techniques are such that most can be repaired and if you buy a car whose engine is completely cactus you have a good chance of finding a tired but non-cactussed engine which you can do up for a fraction of the figure Ross quoted. So to the purists are you going to weep knowing that Ford pistons incorporating the latest technology are thumping up and down in your engine when you could have Polsons or other manufacturers pistons reboxed by the despatch department? 'Out of sight out of mind' and 'Don't show don't tell' are two utterly unrelated quotations that come to mind. What really does put my teeth on edge is blue or red high tension leads tied over the engine with tape etc and adapted coolant hoses which stand out like the well observed canine reproductive accessories! | ||
| Colin Silver Frequent User Username: colsilver Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2008 |
Bill said "So to the purists are you going to weep knowing that Ford pistons" So when do I tell Richard I am using a distributor cap and rotor button made for an Allis Chalmers tractor that uses the same distributor? | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1158 Registered: 4-2003 |
Colin, you've done it - you're a marked man and to think I was going to offer you some special spray mud imported from Crewe for your next concours display!! Next thing you will tell us you are using Australian light globes and hydraulic hoses made in this country. Anyway don't say I didn't warn you!!! | ||
| Gus Brogden Frequent User Username: gus Post Number: 54 Registered: 2-2008 |
OK, heres the deal. The youngest Shadow is just shy of 30 years old. Some are almost 45. By any yardstick, they are all antiques. I sold my '77 Jag V12 XJS this year. It had 60k miles on it. The young prospect was enamoured by it. I told him many times that the car and everything in it is over 30 years old. As minty as it is, it does/will always need work. "If you are not prepared/capable to do this work yourself, this is NOT the car for you. After 4 visits, test drives, his brother visiting, etc, etc, he brought cash, and I begged him not to buy it. If it was a Royce, he wouldn't have got it from me. I took his money, he got the Jag. A week goes by. I get an email, the car wont start, he changed the battery, starter relay, and an expensive starter, it still wont start. It turns out it's the fuel pump. It seems that it turned over fine, it just had no fuel. The point is, here's a guy who got a neat old car but hasn't a clue how to keep it on the road. He should have got a nice rice burner and impressed his friends. I had that car for years, and although it was 30 years old, it was very nice, but every weekend I was under the hood. He got a beautiful antique auto that will become Brillo pads within a year. Our Shadows are such that to keep them on the road, you cannot afford to pay someone to maintain them in "new" condition. If you can, buy a new one, and leave the Shadows to the guys who like to get greasy. Remember, the original purchasers were probably quite well to do, and kept them clean, but once the warranty was over, they were mechanically ignored till they needed brake work. Thats when they found new owners. Everything on a Shadow is 30 years or older. Fix one thing, the next is due. I spend more time with my two Shadows than I do my wife. She is wise not to make me choose. It's either properly keep them together, or they become Brillo pads in the dollar store next. If you want to own and drive an antique auto, you must either be willing to keep it together properly, or neglect it and blame the marque for one's ineptitude. The future brillo pads out there are the ones driven to the ground and are beyond economical repair. My two Shadows have been costing me less to restore than it takes me to keep my two newer Ford pickups on the road. My kids friends ask why our stairs are covered with tools and car parts. Their dads have mini vans. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1159 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gus/ Your sales technique reminded me of one of our earliest Branch Presidents who brought to Australia one of I believe 4 Hooper 'Empress' Bodied Silver Dawns. Some years later he fell in love with a 20HP and the Dawn had to be sold. Advertised, it brought to his door an obviously very successful Mediteranean gentleman and his newly licensed teenage son. They were both very impressed with the car and the father announced he would buy it, no quibble about the price. They all had a drink shook hands and then my friend overheard the father telling his son that he should really be the top kid at school when he turned up in the Rolls! My friend choked and asked the father to explain and of course the car was for the son's exclusive use. It was immediately withdrawn from sale and subsequently sold for a lesser price to a very prominent public figure who took great care of it. Years later I heard that the prominent one had been through a messy divorce and happened to espie him at a very gala occasion at the Sydney Opera House talking to more very prominent people. I slipped up behind him gripping my glass of champers and muttered in his ear 'what did you do with that beautiful car I sold you all those years ago'. He bitterly turned to me and hissed 'the bloody wife took it and she sold it to France'. I have often wondered whether another teenager may have acquired it!!! | ||
| Andre Blaize New User Username: parkward Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 |
The Silver Dawn in question is SRH46 and it was sold to a middle-aged Frenchman who kept it for over 15 years (Phew!). In 1996 it was auctioned by Artcurial and found its way to Belgium. I last saw it for sale on eBay (where else ?) in 2004. As long as it's not in Paris Hilton's or Amy Winehouse's hands, I assume it is reasonably safe ! | ||
| Martin Cutler Prolific User Username: martin_cutler Post Number: 126 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hey Chris, we won't tell Ross about the Toyota Camry starter motor on the 1910 Silver Ghost. Marty - guilty of running a Toyota Corolla air cleaner in the Freestone & Webb..... | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1898 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, Last I heard the 1954 Silver Dawn Hooper Empress mentioned, which of course I knew rather well first-hand as you did in Canberra, it was languishing in a warehouse in Lisbon. As you state, it spent a time in Paris. I understand that it had deteriorated somewhat even before its storage in Portugal. I used to see it in Sydney with number plates 1RR. Oh, and I was handed over my R-Type when I turned 21. Even as a student, I never let is run down. In fact, just before I was given it, it had had a full bare metal refinish and new upholstery by a well-known R-R specialist refinisher in Parramatta Road opposite the Sydney University Medical School. I met Bert Ward there fiddling with a Silver Ghost just before he died. It was great daily student transport, and I refinished it again 10 years later, again to bare metal. You will see it around your neck of the woods soon. Not all young louts run their Crewe cars into the ground ! | ||
| Bill Payne Experienced User Username: wimpy Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2007 |
Could someone explain "engine is completely cactus"? [Admin Note: From http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html] Cactus : dead, not functioning ("this bloody washing machine is cactus") (Message edited by admin on 21 August 2009) | ||
| Chris Gillings Frequent User Username: chrisg Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2001 |
Alright, yes Martin, I neglected to mention the newly installed starter motor on a 1910 Ghost that has for 99 years functioned perfectly well with a mere crank handle. I'd still be content with the crank handle but with Barrie at 75 years I am one of (I hope) many who don't want to see him drop dead of a heart attack while cranking the old girl. The starter motor (installed by Garth Selig & co.) is a beautiful, empathetic piece of work that could be removed within the space of a few hours with no evidence of it ever having been there. I classify it as safety equipment because (heart attacks aside) you no longer have to leap in front of the car in the middle of traffic to crank start it when that damnable modern electric fuel pump and/or CDI fails again. And if the starter motor fails there's still the trusty old crank handle, anyway. On that basis I don't think it really applies to this discussion. (Even the fuel pump and CDI can failover to the originals, so my complaints about them are somewhat moot in this context.) | ||
| Trevor Small Unregistered guest Posted From: 123.243.168.153 |
I recall some years back this issue arose in a Jaguar club. One of the members decided that his test was "Would Sir William (Lyons) have approved?" If the answer was yes, he'd go ahead, and of course if the answer was no he'd stay original. (This was about the same time I spent $10 000 on a Bentley Series II top end.) (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Brian, thanks for the offer of the membership forms. To be honest I haven't really decided if the RROC people are really the sort of folk I particularly want to associate with. To be sure there are some great people on this site, Bill is a nice bloke and Richard seems cool and there are some other decent people out there, but there appears to be a lot of assholes out there as well. Without insulting the mark, at the end of the day it's just a car. Sure it's got some reputation and history behind it but at the end of the day it's just a standard internal combustion engine driving 4 wheels and a seat. Big fucking deal. It's like the Ducati forum, for some reason they seem to think the bike is somehow special because it was assembled by Italians. Well here's a news flash. Wogs cant design electrics for crap, just like the English can't make a reliable car. That doesn't mean the vehicles don't have character or can't perform, I just get tired of hearing how great they are when any Jap bike or car will out perform and have superior reliability any time. I'll see how things go, with both people and car. Cheers Ross | ||
| Douglas Majors Experienced User Username: rollerman Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2006 |
More to the point, do we, as owners,enthusiasts or admirers of the marque really want to or need to be associated with foul mouthed, arrogant,racist and anti social people such as yourself? Personally I would avoid you like the plague and I cannot see why we should be subject to your foul mouthed tirade on what to many is an excellent forum for those appreciate it. If you don't like the cars or the people, may I suggest you buy a car more suited to your disposition. Perhaps a Trabant or some such like. | ||
| Mernon Lollich Experienced User Username: mernon_lollich Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2005 |
My sentiments exactly, already expresed to the moderator. | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wonder what he'd say about a car made in Israel - after saying the holocaust never happened, of course... Anyway, if you're on the side of not bastardizing the driveline, more ways to save money maintaining these cars is here: http://mutley.hypermart.net/RollsSubstituteParts.html ...and Roebuck, Larry | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2009 |
Douglas, Mernon and Larry, Obviously I came across badly, I was just having a friendly dig, it's sometimes difficult to express the correct tone well when typing, if I offended, sorry for the misunderstanding and my sense of humour. I usually poke more fun at myself but thanks for pointing out my defects. If you can't forgive me and still think I am Satan incarnate I'm happy to be removed and banned from this site.  | ||
| Douglas Majors Experienced User Username: rollerman Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ross, keep your foul language for the gutter where it belongs and remember that some of us don't need or want your colourful euphemisms to describe our cars. Some of us actually enjoy the Marque as it was intended, not dollied up with transplanted bits from god knows where. As for being Satan incarnate, I can assure you that you aren't. I married his daughter but fortunately have now passed her on and now reside with a 1973 Shadow 1 instead (SRH 15571) She is infinately better behaved and a joy to spend my hard earned money on. Keep in mind that this is a public forum, behave yourself in future and we may let you play. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 901 Registered: 4-2003 |
"Keep in mind that this is a public forum, behave yourself in future and we may let you play." Thank you Douglas - we expect and welcome differences of opinion from members of this forum as a robust discussion often provides useful information for readers. What we do not accept are vilification and personal attacks on contributors who have different points of view to the writer. As far as acceptable language goes, everyone has different standards and what may be innocuous to some may be offensive to others. I remind everyone of the obvious fact that your reputation and standing will be determined by the way you present yourself in your posts. Your reputation and credibility is in your hands. | ||
| Ross Rackham Experienced User Username: rosco Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi David, I hear where you're all coming from and respect that. The reaction to what I consider to be virtually nothing really took me by surprise. If things this minor are likely to cause such angst for other members in the future I think it's safe to say that both myself and the forum are not a suitable match. Me being me, I can guarantee people will be offended in the future so the best thing to do is just move on. That and the fact I have no wish to risk being told how to behave in such a condescending manner again. I have no need to establish “reputation and credibility”, I have a sufficient amount in the real world. So please, delete my account and we'll call it quits, it really is not worth getting ones knickers in a twist over. Those that have my personal email (who I know can tolerate me) feel free to drop me a line from time to time. And as a parting thought, a really big, huge, sincere and tremendous "THANK YOU" to whoever it was that went to the trouble of scanning and posting the service manuals. They have been a huge help as I've slowly worked through the bugs in the old girl. Cheers, goodbye and all the best. Ross | ||
| Andrew Lark New User Username: drew Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2009 |
Very interesting thread, I enjoyed reading it until it started to take on a tonality that made me think of the stench of alcohol coming from a bloke in the corner of the bar who has well lubricated opinion gears! Still, I feel compelled to contribute to the topic nonetheless - and being in my thirties I thought I could offer another perspective. I have been kicking around cars as a hobby since I was 13 - and this hobby has taken on many forms for me and often the topic of maintenance or modification has come up. I guess it comes down to: Personal taste and expectation, possible feelings of nostalgia or obligation to history, and plain old practicality. I have a 1959 Morris Minor with an Austin-Healey Sprite engine, Toyota gearbox, telescopic shocks and a few other modifications. There are still plenty of 1950's Morris Minors around so historic preservation was not an issue for me, besides - my Dad has an original 1957 in the shed at the farm which will be back on the road one day. My '59 is modified for practicality (it can keep up with the traffic) and for fun. It's still got that British feel, mainly due to the use of an A-Series engine like the original. I also have a 1949 Morris Minor two door. She is 100% original, side valve engine, cross ply tyres - the ONLY modification is indicators. For me this vehicle is significant enough to be maintained in its original condition - its one of the oldest in Australia, it represents a model that was revolutionary for its time and was of an ingenious design assisting post-war British vehicle manufacturing to get back on its feet in those difficult years in the late 1940s. For me there is no reason to modify "Maggie", she is club registered, she's as slow as a wet week - especially up anything that might even look like an incline (did someone mention 60 MPH? She'll manage about 55 on the flat without wind assistance, quite fast enough for me given the brakes and tyres). I will fit a discrete, removable LED high mount stop light to her rear window as the original brake lights are very low on the rear wings and are hardly startling. I'm still vexing about seat belts but will likely take the plunge for safety's sake. I got interested in hotting cars up and toyed with building a street rod, but they are a bit like bum-holes, everybody's got one! I looked at high performance engines for my '59, blah blah. I ended up buying a brand new Holden SS V8, it is the best handling and performing car I have ever owned (beats the doors off the new turbo Subarus I have recently owned). It looks great and fulfils my "hoon" desires quite satisfactorily, and my wife just _loves_ driving it. No more desires for hot-rods. I have a Toyota four wheel drive that I have spent a ridiculous amount of time and money on to equip it for it's intended purpose of travelling this wide brown land of ours. I won't rattle on about all the mods but suffice to say I did them all myself except the differential and front suspension. It was a great engineering challenge and I enjoyed the journey and learnt a great deal in the process. She doesn't see the dirt much any more, health has slowed me down some and many of the types of people encountered off-road leave me a little disheartened. As for our Silver Shadow, I have only owned her for a relatively short period of time. But I can say I didn't buy her as a status symbol (she was only $13,000 anyway!) but more as working demonstration of engineering and manufacturing excellence. I feel no need to modify her, she has heaps of grunt ("tally-ho, away we go and don't spare the dinosaur bones" we say as we blast up hills as fast as we like!) and she handles superbly on fast windy rough country roads. Practicality and availability of finances might sway my choices for spare parts as the need arises but on the whole I knew what I was getting myself in for when I decided to buy a Rolls-Royce (instead of a Jaguar - but that's another story). My apologies for the waffle laden post, I find it theraputic and it helps me as I prepare to return to work after months home and in hospital. :-) Cheers, Andrew. (Message edited by drew on 24 August 2009) | ||
| John Shostrom Frequent User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2005 |
Gentlemen, this surely is one of the most intensely emotional threads on this forum in recent memory! As far as the maintenance and driving of SY series cars goes, I have owned many of them, the most recent being LRK36424 a 1979 Silver Wraith II. I have driven over 700,000 miles in SY series cars, so it should be fairly obvious that I've never used them for the show circuit -- each and every one of them has been my daily transport for business and pleasure alike. I am in the design business, so of course beauty (being in the eye of the beholder, usually) was a factor in my choosing these cars. The other, and equally important factor, was engineering design and build quality. For me, it has always been worth the extra effort to maintain the cars properly and keep them original. Indeed, I've never "failed to proceed" in any of my SY cars. They have given me great pleasure and have been a valuable business asset. They have also represented, in the long run, great value for money. I can understand the enthusiast who wants to add a Harvey-Bailey handling kit to his/her car -- but to simply disconnect the self-levelling hydraulics altogether? Apart from seriously compromising the ride quality -- the very essence of the car's handling and demeanour would be sacrificed. Ditto for the engine, surely one of the greatest engines of all time, and if correctly maintained, virtually bulletproof. No, if I want a GM V8, etc, I'll go for a Holden Statesman or a Cadillac Seville from the same era ... that has never been what I wanted. We've heard it before, but it bears repeating that Sir Henry Royce always maintained that "the quality remains long after the price is forgotten." That has been very true for me, and I'm glad I never gave in. These cars continue to provide me with great satisfaction on all levels. That is not to say that I don't face the occasional frustration, but isn't it worth it with our cars compared to the frustrations to be had from the Holden or the Cadillac? | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1162 Registered: 4-2003 |
Personally John I found it quite cathartic and rewarding that there are contributors, administrators and monitors to stoke it so to speak! My thanks to you all! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1901 Registered: 4-2003 |
Oh well, there goes another. I figure that we all have been tolerant of this retired Wedding Silver Shadow in colour and all. Now we don't have to hear of cheapo central locks, the type that seem to last three years, and all the other facile compromises. All I can really say is !!. | ||
| Peter Colwell Frequent User Username: peter_colwell Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2005 |
Having waded through all this, I realise that my reasons for owning my Silver Cloud don't fit in to any of the above-mentioned pigeon holes. My car was a life-long dream acheived, and I love it for its Rolls-Royceness. What others do with their cars is of little interest to me. The question of originality does not arise for me, simply because once major items are changed the car is no longer a Rolls-Royce. For other people that's just fine and none of my business. The enjoyment of the car for me comes from driving it, listening to it, feeling it, which can all happen out of the sight of any audience. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1163 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well me lads, bottles of bismuth in front of you and large buckets besides you. I invite you to stand in awe at the following site, http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?ID=1685 whoops where's the bucket!!!!!!!! | ||
| Gus Brogden Frequent User Username: gus Post Number: 56 Registered: 2-2008 |
It looks to me like somebody picked up a nice Shadow that needed hydraulic work. By the time it needed a new stat, out of expediency, he put a dodge engine in it. I wonder if it has the torque of a 6.7? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1902 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yip. Seen it in the metal quite some years ago. It comes equipped with telescope headgear to see where you are hoping to go. Mind you, K&N filters are pretty good for MkVI, Silver Clouds, S2s and S3s. The trouble is that they don�t tell anyone that SUs need new jets and needles tuned on a dynamometer to make the beasts behave. People whack K&Ns on, and wonder why they splutter immediately then the exhaust valves frazzle in a few months. | ||
| Gus Brogden Frequent User Username: gus Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2008 |
Sorry about that last post Bill, back to the topic. I agree with the post from KC Saayman under S1 brake fluid. I work on my 40 year old Shadow, and everything works so well after cleaning as refurbishment. I encounter the same issues with my newer Volvo and trucks and it requires replacement or significant repair. Our cars are good value, and, mile for mile, so much cheaper to keep on the road. Long after my volvo, mercedes, and ford trucks have become dirt, my Shadows will still be worth every cent and hour I put into them. | ||
| Gus Brogden Frequent User Username: gus Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2008 |
If it splutters, blame the cam. If it fries valves, blame the cam retailer. Its the american way. | ||
| Colin Silver Frequent User Username: colsilver Post Number: 63 Registered: 8-2008 |
I'm sure Ross will keep his Royce going. It is in good hands from the work I've seen him do and the questions he's asked. But, if he passes it on, we can hope it will be bought by another person wanting to keep the car going. Richard, I'm surprised you seem to have a negativity to virgin white. Yes, Ross and I might not have the original factory colour, but should we ostracise Royces that have been colour altered? Do I take mine to Pick a Part or SimsMetal? Oh spank me.  I'm against your opinion of aftermarket equipment. If we want these cars to last longer, then using no harm aftermarket equipment will allow that. I'm sure the the owner would keep the original equipment for one of the future owners to repair and re-install. Keep at it Ross. Don't give up mate. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1903 Registered: 4-2003 |
Not sure about your first statement, Colin, after the bollocking we were just given by someone who has never met or spoken to any of us. Nor the second. As to aftermarket bits, sure if they are an improvement, more durable, and in keeping, fit em and throw the old away forever I say. However, when they are inferior and only price-chosen, that s a diffent matter. Central locks are a prime example of what to keep. The SY ones are very superior, and easily adapted to any remote or security system. They need one slight modification long after all other types are scrapped - inserting a fibre washer above the rubber one at each end of the plunger to stop them jamming after 20 years. It is outlined in this Forum. The aftermarket ones are just cheap and nasty. Other add-ons such as remote locking control and reverse parking sensors - all good stuff. Colour ? Your choice, but certain colours like pink, purple and white do make a loud statement, and if it suits you, fine. Each to his own on that one, and a colour change is always cheered so long as all the interior and glass are removed and the bodywork stripped first. | ||
| Colin Silver Frequent User Username: colsilver Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2008 |
In my post before yours Richard, I wasn't advocating throwing out original parts - but just putting them aside for future owners while we use aftermarket products that don't cause harm. My sons want me to put doof doof in the boot and wear a baseball hat backwards while I lay back with my elbow out the window. I had no choice but to have a white Cloud I. To be kosher or halal I'd have to deprive my family of quite some money just to please purists. That can't be done at the moment, but maybe a descendant or another owner might do it. Again, I had no choice, nor I suspect did Ross. Yeah Ross did give a good blasting, but I see it as the frustration of a man getting stuck into something that is a bit more complicated than he thought or is used to. He'll come around, especially after getting into the library and reading Bill's Tee One Topics. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1904 Registered: 4-2003 |
Colin, I am actually saying that, if a mod is worthwhile, throw the old original bits away. We all have too much junk hanging around, and obsolete parts are never likely to be used again. Hang the idea of refitting old bits sometime in the future. It will never happen. If some dreamer wants to go back to original, there are plenty of all postwar cars scrapped out there as donors. By the way, in my opinion a Silver Shadow will never be as collectable as a Silver Cloud. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1905 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps: there is an exception. I have run special 15x7 inch wheels and radials since 1979 on my R-Type. I still have the skinny original 16 inch rubbish cramming up a garden shed. I donßt really know why I kept them though. | ||
| Martin Cutler Prolific User Username: martin_cutler Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2007 |
Richard, whats wrong with the original wheels? Mine are fine? I would assume the engineers at Rolls Royce put a lot of effort into determining the stress loads on the steering and suspension from the 6 inch x 16 inch rims. The 16 inch rims suit the size of the vehicle. Should I fit Hyundai wheels and power steering? What do I do with the beautiful hub caps? A lot of guys in the classic italian bike club are fitting Suzuki GSXR rims to their Laverdas, sure they can fit a wider range of sticky tyres, there being a much larger market for 17 " tyres than 18", but what does that extra stickyness do to the rest of the bike? I would hate to find out in the middle of a corner when the frame or swingarm broke. I remember back a few years ago when I was campaigning the Austin 7 in historic racing, a bunch of the A7 blokes go hold of a heap of 16" sticky motorcycle tyres, and ran their cars on them. They stuck so well they started breaking spokes, stub axles and king pins. Not such a great idea! My car stayed with the original cross plies, sure they let go easily, but they looked period, and it was heaps more exciting to drive. I am busy trying to wear out a set of tyres on my daily transport, so I can try some high pressure tyres. Unfortunatey bicycle tyres wear out very slowly......... Cheers Marty | ||
| KC Saayman Frequent User Username: kc_saayman Post Number: 100 Registered: 10-2004 |
The best thing I ever did to my Mk VI was fit modern radial tyres. It really improved both the ride and road holding of the car, which suites me because we often use the car for holidays as well as around town. I found that classic Range Rover tyres (road bias type) are a perfect fit and only 4mm smaller than the originals. They are also cheap and readily available. Regards KC | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1906 Registered: 4-2003 |
Martin, The 15 inchers only need a specially-turned outer finishing rim to look appropriate. Silver Clouds, SY and most SZs have them anyhow, but I went to late SZ genuine 7 1/2x17 on my Turbo R. On my R-Type I have a set of turned outers to fit the original inner covers, but put on some stailess steel temporary ones, and left them as I like them. The original MkVI/R wheels and tyres are hopeless, and even 1960s technology even left them naked. Crewe did their best with the pathetic tyres available given the shortages at the time. With the fabulous 2000s modern tyres, I can vouch for two-wheeling regularly around the bend onto the Circular Quay overpass coming from The Domain at speeds a Hyundai can only dream of. The suspension is so strong that it hurts it not a bit, and actually benefits from it all. 200,000 miles later, no problems at all. RHT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1907 Registered: 4-2003 |
ps: the best I ever had from 16 inch crossply tyres was 8,000 miles. Then Pirelli 16 radials: nice to drive for 6,000. The new 15 inch tyres are good for 40,000. | ||
| N. Craig Bryant Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.6.89.150 |
Gentlemen, This has gotten so hot blooded that I'm a bit afraid to take the leap! That said, here goes. My old friend John Shostrom says that his cars have all been everyday drivers and are therefore not show cars. I am here to tell you that most of the cars that take prizes at meets 'wish' they were as nice as John keeps his cars! I try to keep things as simple as possible with my cars, exactly as Rolls-Royce put them out of the factory doors. If I didn't want a Rolls-Royce...I wouldn't have them. If, or when, I can no longer afford the bill, I will not have one, and I won't insult enthusiasts of the marque by pretending to be one of them. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| John Shostrom Frequent User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2005 |
Thank you for the kind words, Craig, they are very much appreciated and it reinforces within me that through the years it has all been worth it. I agree with the notion of keeping things simple and as close as possible to the way the cars left the factory. Often, it is the person who, as often happens in my own business, attempts to "improve" upon an original and well-thoughtout design who gets himself into trouble. This is not always the case, of course, especially where those who possess the right amounts of knowledge, attention to detail, patience and a healthy sense of the absurd are concerned. Happy hands at home never made for a particularly savoury and nourishing pot of soup, no matter how good it looked! | ||
| John Shostrom Frequent User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 93 Registered: 4-2005 |
Gentlemen, this link was just sent to me. It regards a 91-year-old woman in Florida, who is still driving the 1964 Mercury Comet Caliente that she bought new in 1964. It has 559,000 miles on it, and she has maintained it regardless, keeping all records and receipts. A woman after my own heart! http://autos.aol.com/article/rachel-veitch-old-car?icid=main |
