| Author | Message | ||
     Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.214.20.176 |
My best greetings to the fellow Rolls Royce enthusiasts of Australia! My name is Ivan J. Diaz and I am a resident of the city of Miami, Florida, U.S.A. My wife and I recently purchased a Rolls Royce Silver Spur II, 1990 model in excellent condition. I am researching the ancestry of Eleanor Velasco Thornton, who was the model for the sculpture Mr. Charles Sykes created as “The Spirit of Ecstacy”. When I read the fascinating article “ELEANOR, IN BODY OR SPIRIT? by Paul Tritton, 1986 in your Club’s web site, I decided to contact your organization. The reason for my research is that my wife, Mirta Velasco Diaz, has an ancestry from Southern Spain, where the last name Velasco originated. It comes from the Arab root “Velaquez”, from the times the Arabs conquered Southern Spain. My wife and I are trying to determine if she is related in ancestry to Ms. Eleanor Velaso Thornton. To us, it would be a very significant source of genuine pride if this was the case. I am trying to contact someone in England who may assist us in researching this possibility. Could any of you possibly provide us with a way to pursue this research in England or steer us in the right direction? Or do you have any other suggestions on contacts we can try? I realize that this is a rather unusual request. To us it would be a very gratifying experience. Sincerely, Ivan J. Diaz 2333 Brickell Avenue Apt. # 811 Miami, FL 33129, U.S.A. Tel. (305) 859-8599 e-mail: d.s.associates@att.net | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Prolific User Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ivan; I am in the states also and do not know what resources might be available in Australia. But as I understand the best for the price (free) is to contact the Mormons. They have traced just about every family tree not only in the States but most of the world including England. There are also services in London that will trace your family ancestry however, this can get rather costly. Best of luck Bill | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 120 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ivan, I agree with Bill that I would start with the Mormon genealogical website. If my memory is correct, the UK Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages used to be kept at Somerset House in London and you would start here to track Eleanor Thornton's ancestry. I would suggest you contact a local genealogical society in your area who will be able to help you with the detailed information you need to research your wife's ancestry. Using a search engine such as Google using the word "genealogy" will also help. You could also try the following index site: http://www.genhomepage.com/ The following site has links to the Mormon sites, the UK Somerset House records and other sites of possible interest: http://www.users.bigpond.com/benandarah/links.htm Ivan, please let us know if you come with any information. | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.215.22.73 |
To: David Gore, Moderator David; Thank you also for your prompt comments and the ancestry research links. I will contact the Mormons, as Bill suggested, and will also get in touch with the UK Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages. This is encouraging! I will be in touch. Best regards, Ivan | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.215.22.73 |
TO: William H. Trovinger II Bill; Thank you for the suggestion to contact the Mormons. I will be doing so tomorrow and, using David Gore's web links, I will also pursue the UK Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages as a potentially main source. I will keep you posted on my progress. Best regards, Ivan | ||
| KC - South Africa Unregistered guest Posted From: 168.209.98.67 |
Ivan You may already know this, but Eleanor had a sister, Rose. A possible lead! Also, as Lord Montagu’s mistress she actually bore him a child, but sadly she only saw the child on the day she was born. Lord Montagu took the child away and provided for her until adulthood. Eleanor drowned in 1915 while traveling to Egypt with Lord Montagu. He commissioned a memorial plaque for the family pew in the parish church at Beaulieu commemorating Eleanor. Good luck with your research! KC | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.158.215.122 |
TO: KC South Africa KC, thank you for the information on Eleanor Thornton's sister, Rose, and daughter, Joan Douglas-Montegu-Scott. After you sent me your comments I did some additional research and it fully corroborated your input; I also have a list of Eleanor's descendants, with Joan's children and Rose's too. Good potential contacts. My first steps are to try and find the "Velasco" side of Eleanor's name, and who gave it to her in origin. I am sure that's her mother's last name, and I am in the process of contacting the UK Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages to get a copy a document (birth certificate) of her parents' full names and additional information. I am also starting to identify my late father-in-law's ancestry, which starts with his birthplace, Cuba, and goes back thru the Canary Islands to Southern Spain, the country of origin. Over 70% of the Spaniards that came to settle in the Caribbean Region came thru the Canary Islands. This part of the research is somewhat sensitive, since I will need to contact the Cuban authorities for ancestry tracing, and you know diplomatic relations between the U.S. and Cuba are strained. I am hoping that the U.S. State Department can give me some guidance on this. Ultimately, my search upward on my late father-in-law's ancestry should take me to Southern Spain. In parallel, Eleanor Thornton's ancestry should eventually lead me there too. And that is where I expect to tie the two together. Ambitious plan? You bet! But I will pursue this to my best ability. I will keep you posted on my progress. Best regards, Ivan | ||
| Jeanne Eve Moderator Username: jeve Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dear Ivan, I am unable to offer information, only encouragement! I am sure I'm not alone in letting you know how fascinated I have become in your search and wish you all the best. Until your next instalment... Kind regards, Jeanne(Sydney) | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.158.252.252 |
TO: Jeanne Eve - Sydney Dear Jeanne; Thank you for your encouragement! These research hours tend to be long, and I just keep at it. The fascinating aspect of the search is the large number of possible sources of information. It's basically dependent on my ability to "zero" in on the right ones. I am pleasantly surprised to see that the project is generating interest. This is definitely a rewarding exercise! My present focus is on England's record repositories. I hope to report progress soon. I will keep you updated! Best regards, Ivan | ||
| Jeanne Eve Moderator Username: jeve Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dear Ivan, I know well the hours necessary for research and also the loneliness of writing on the website - not knowing who else is reading!(I write the long-distance events). So think of us as the monkeys on your back, or preferably, your mentors, as you continue your fascinating search. Have you contacted Lord Edward Montagu of Beaulieu yet? - might as well start at the top and use family. Contact me under Contact on left hand side of this page, under Utilities. Lord Montagu travelled with me in 1997 in my Phantom V and wrote the Foreword to my book on the 1997 Peking to Paris Motor Challenge, so I will be delighted to see if I can assist further.Also I will contact Tom Clarke, historian extraordinaire and see if he knows anything more. All the best, Kind regards, Jeanne. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 126 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Ivan/Jeanne, I am following this research with great interest. It would be very rewarding to be a Rolls-Royce owner with a family connection to the mascot we love to travel behind. Ivan, I hope your research has a positive outcome and you establish a positive family connection. | ||
| Ivan jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.156.237.3 |
To: Jeanne Eve/Sydney Dear Jeanne; What a wonderful surprise you have given me with your last message! I nearly fell out of my chair. Research is not for the faint of heart. I cannot fully express my gratitude for your offering to assist in my contancting Lord Edward Montagu of Beaulieu. That is by far the very best contact I could make. Can you imagine the wealth of information I may gain? And thank you again for offering likewise with Mr.Tom Clarke, whom I look forward to contacting as an excellent historian. I also want to talk to you about your book on the 1997 Peking to Paris Motor Challenge. I will contact you via the Contact line on the web page's Utilities menu. with my very best wishes, Ivan | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.156.237.3 |
To: David Gore, moderator Hi, David; Thanks for your message. With Jeanne Eve's valuable help, as well as the other suggestions received in this Forum, I expect to progress faster than I expected. Your Club has very fine members, as I can already see. All of you are to be congratulated for such a positive spirit and drive. I will keep you posted. Ivan | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.155.175.64 |
To: David Gore, Moderator Hi, David. I have some unfortunate news to report on my research of Eleanor Thornton's ancestry. We have just learned from a very reliable source that Eleanor's middle name, Velasco, was not her's at birth. She had no middle name. It seems, we are told, that she added it sometime later in her life. This news has prompted Mirta and I to stop the research, for the link between Mirta's last name, Velasco and Eleanor's is not reliable. It is a sad moment for us. But we appreciate having been given this information early on, and perhaps avoiding extended fruitless efforts. I want to thank all of you who have encouraged us on. Especially, I want to recognize Jeanne Eve for her immediate and consistent support. I will stay in tune with your club and want to convey to all of you (a bit early) our wishes for the best during the holidays and new year. Again, thanks for your efforts! Ivan | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Ivan, It is my understanding that it was common practice for families to change names for several generations due to disagreements/feuds/scandals etc and later generations would revert to the original family name once the reason for the change had been long forgotten. This was also the case for illegitimate or extramarital births. For this reason, I would continue your search as there is probably a very good reason why she adopted the Velasco name; the difficulty will be finding out why. I would not be suprised if you find some inexplicable omissions from the records if a member of the aristocracy has been involved with someone who was not their married partner!! | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.215.48.229 |
TO: David Gore, Moderator Hi, David; Thank you for the observations regarding the common practice that families used in changing names when sensitive issues existed. I think this is a very valid point, and will apply my efforts accordingly. Researching can be quite revealing! I will keep in touch as new findings arise. Best regards, Ivan | ||
| Douglas Robert Shute Experienced User Username: douglasr Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ivan: Ohh please don't abandon your project...you never know. I am searching through my own family history because some of my distant relatives were related to Robert W. Schuette who operated the Rolls-Royce dealership for Springfield RRM in the 1920's. Somewhere in myfiles I have an article extensively covering Elanor Thorton. I have to remember first where I read it, but do have it. There are quite a few colorful stories relating to her, as I think she also had a dalience with Claude Johnson or Earnst Claremont, but am not sure on this point. Keep up your search. Doug. | ||
| Ivan Jose Diaz Unregistered guest Posted From: 68.219.80.110 |
To: Douglas Robert Shute Doug: Thank you for your message. At this point, we have not abandoned our research. Rather, we are re-focusing on how to clear up the Velasco connection to Eleanor Thornton. That in itself is critical to our progress. I sincerely appreciate your words of encouragement, and wish you much success in researching your own family's history. Believe me, surprises come up everywhere! Just keep an open mind, and let history's facts and events guide you. Best regards and Happy Holidays, Ivan |
