Hans van Eynsbergen
Posted From: ip5657096c.direct-adsl.nl
|Posted on Thursday, 30 August, 2007 - 05:30: |
Dear Forum members,
Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Hans van Eynsbergen, I live in Rotterdam, the Netherlands and I am the proud owner of a 1967 Silver shadow.(SRH 2958)
While surfing on Ebay I came into contact with an Australian Shadow owner who pointed me to RROCA and this forum.
In the next few months my car will have a full bare metal respray, an adventure of gargantuan proportions !
No doubt many of the forum members will know the extent of such a restoration because that's exactly what it is.
Of course I need a lot of things for the car, especially the nice things like 15" alloy wheels.
This link will show a picture of the type of wheels I am looking for:
But all my endless searches on Ebay and similar auction sites have been fruitless.
Even though Google is my best friend, the results are zero, nada, nothing, zilch !
And that brings me to my question :
Is there anyone in this fine forum who could help me out with ANY kind of info, or who might even have a set lying around, who knows where I might get a set !
Every little tidbit of info is more then welcome.
After all, our world is not much bigger then the keyboard of our computers and email makes the world even smaller !
I wish we still had a similar forum here in Holland, but that one died a silent death due to a total lack of interest.
So...I might just as well try a few miles outside of Holland...
Thank you all in advance and feel free to mail me.
Hans van Eynsbergen
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 922
|Posted on Friday, 07 September, 2007 - 11:05: |
Hans/ How very smart those wheels are. I have to confess that admiring them is as far as I go. If the car is in general use wheels like those in the picture deteriorate very quickly as I suspect they are anodised which does not have the same resistance to general road frum as stainless steel! I recently landed a 1986 Turbo Bentley with alloy wheels and they needed to be viewed from a distance after the most thorough cleaning. The centre cover or literally I suppose hub cap with the security key lock has a dinky little plug poked into the lock slot for protection against moisture etc. To remove it requires a crude little wire hook inserted through a couple of holes in the plug. Inevitably some hoon tries his own extraction method which damages the surface at the least and often the surround to the holes. Having extracted the plug it is then retained with the cover by a small strap which breaks with use it seems. Since these wheels would be the choice of very few owners you may have better luck trying to get the option of a steering wheel covered in Nigerian sloth prepuces!
Lastly given the extent you are pursuing with the body I trust that the vehicle is in perfect mechanical order. If this is not the case can I suggest you spend the alloy wheel funds getting it to that condidion. There are few more ridiculous sights that a magnificently presented Rolls-Royce that has broken down because of poor mechanical condition! I have seen it many times including the case of a glorious car that almost won a National concours which was stopped at a routine mechanical condition check point on the way home by the police and finished up continuing the journey on the back of a truck with a large condemned sign on the windscreen There were some very defensive concours judges washing their hands that day. You may draw the conclusion that I view all concours with a jaundiced eye! Good luck anyway.
Posted From: client-86-29-93-55.brig.adsl.tesco.net
|Posted on Saturday, 08 September, 2007 - 04:16: |
The wheels shown are not correct for your car SRH 2958.
It should have Dunlop steels wheels in either gloss or satin black with stainless wheel trims without air cooling slots and colour coded mild steel trims with two coach lines.
It is normal to have the beauty rings in the same colour as the lower half of the car.
The tyres should be 205/70/15 Radials ( the car would have left the factory with cross plies but RR would have then after about 1972 recommended radials.)
There is nothing special about any of the later alloy wheels offered for the Silver Spirit and later models.
None of the Shadows had alloys.
because of this any alloy wheel of the correct size ( including offset ) will do the job.
also wheel manuafactures will make up centre bits with the RR logo the double "RR" or the Bentley version.
In the concours world having the wrong wheels and or tyres is a no no ( they will even expect to see Avon turbo speed tyres fitted )
Alloys do not give any car a mechanical advantage they are purely athestic.
Unsprung weight is a consideration but it will be found that when an alloy ( not magnesuim alloy)wheel is weighed it is about the same as a steel wheel add the tyre weight and the weight saving will be about zero.
I go with Bill you must make sure that the mechanical bits are up to snuff before anny frivolities are untaken like bling wheels.
I also think that the style of the car ( look at the dash board very Edwardian like a gentlemans club) does not go with alloys wheels.
Further to that the steel wheels are very robust and require very little maintenance.
The wheel trims can easily be polished in comfort while seated in my lounge with a nice cup of tea and the radio on rather than pulling the whole wheel off and struggling
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 927
|Posted on Wednesday, 12 September, 2007 - 10:02: |
Well Bob I think our friend has retreated to think! In the meantime I was intrigued in your statement "The tyres should be 205/70/15 Radials ( the car would have left the factory with cross plies but RR would have then after about 1972 recommended radials.) " Did they really recommend radials with the early cars. I always understood that they shied away from such statements on the grounds that they had no intention of carrying out the necessary steps to establish the cars' suitablity to radials. I am not nit picking just wondering whether I have missed something. Of course we are using radials en masse. Recently I stuck 235x70's on a Cloud I which dropped the thing noticeably but it looked good and certainly handles very well.
Post Number: 64
|Posted on Wednesday, 12 September, 2007 - 15:19: |
Bob, should that not be 205/80/15? The later size is 235/70/15. My understanding is that the earlier radial tyre is narrower, but should still have the same or similar diameter, hence 80 and not 70?
I stand to be corrected.
Posted From: client-86-29-83-35.brig.adsl.tesco.net
|Posted on Tuesday, 18 September, 2007 - 03:44: |
The 70 refers to the aspect ratio which means a percentage of the width --70%
Tyres which have no aspect ratio are 82%.
The rolling radius which is what most are concerned with because of speedo calibration.
I have found from experience that a change of 12% will not effect the speedo too much.
When I worked for the police some cars had calibrated speedos.
These were calibrated using a 3/4 worn tyre rolling radius in the calculations.
So it is virtually impossible to calibrate accurately any speedo which relies on revs of the wheel because both tyre pressure and wear will effect the reading.
Which is why in the UK the police allow 10% plus 2 before they bring a charge of speeding.
So a car doing 35mph in a 30 limit would not attract a fine.
However this does not mean that the driver can drive at 35 mph in a 30mph zone because the cars speedo could be out thus putting the driver at risk of a fine.
The police now use radar which eliminates all errors ------ so they say!
The best way to find out if your speedo is accurate is to find the bit of road that the police use for daily calibration.
My local one has 2 triangles which are 1 km apart on a straight dual carriage way
using a stop watch etc etc.
Up until the compliant suspension was fitted the cars left the factory on crossplies.
Owners were fitting radials when the CPs needed replacing with out the recommendation of the factory. RR knew about this but said nothing until quite a few cars had been tested free of charge to RR by the owners unknowingly. ( common practice is to let customers road test the mods with out telling them )
Once RR was satisfied that the radials were not going to cause the customers to complain about noise ( CPs are quieter than rads ). RR adjusted the suspension to make the most of the radials attributes and retro fitted any cars that came their way.
RR has always been cautious of new things.
When I was an apprentice I brought an Austin 1100 which was on crossplies being a new driver I new nothing about tyres.
My Uncle happened to have a newer version of the car fitted with radials. When I drove that car I was amazed at the difference.
In wet weather especally the car was no longer skittish and handled better than my car in the dry.
I have found since then that ALL cars are better on radials regardless of suspension design
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 736
|Posted on Tuesday, 18 September, 2007 - 20:34: |
With reguard to an easy checking of the calibrated speed of the speedo at different speeds,use a sat-nav they are really most accurate.
Post Number: 67
|Posted on Wednesday, 19 September, 2007 - 05:23: |
I put radials on my Mk VI, and it made a huge difference. The car is more sure-footed, has a softer ride and has better grip in wet weather. After much research I found that the classic Range Rover tyres 205/80 R16 are closest to the originals in size.
See a write-up of my experience with the CP/radial swap here;
Post Number: 75
|Posted on Friday, 21 September, 2007 - 04:16: |
A Rolls-Royce factory technical bulletin, dated 1979, states that a suitable replacement tyre to the 8.45 x 15 crossply on pre-compliant Shadows would be a 205 70 15 radial -- but fabric-belted and with tube. I suspect RR preferred fabric-belting because of noise issues, and possibly tubes as they could have been concerned with air leakage when fitted to standard early Shadow wheels. I'll try and sort through my documents in the next week to provide the actual TSD Publication reference number. I haven't seen any fabric-belted radials for some time, and one wonders if fitting a set of early-70s compliant Shadow wheels with correct 205 15 70 radials might just do the trick. I wonder if anyone ever went into Hythe Road back then, asking for their 1967 Shadows to be converted to compliant suspension by RR ...
Posted From: client-81-108-190-48.brig.adsl.tesco.net
|Posted on Monday, 24 September, 2007 - 05:53: |
My car is fitted with 235/70/15. It is a narrow arch compliant sus model, 1974.
I am unsure as to why RR widen the arches because in no way does my tyres stick out.
I think that if I was to put 205/70/15 on instead it would make no difference that I would feel.
A few years back I had a Merc van which on a mot test the tester noticed that one front tyre was 195 and the other 185 wide. It had gone through 2 mot like that and it wandered a bit to the wide tyre side.
I fitted the same size to the front and it felt no different what so ever and still wandered to the same side.
Just in case anyone is unsure about tyres.
Radials are far superior to cross plies except maybe in noise.
Radials grip so much better than crossplies that it is dangerous to mix them with radials.
If radials are on the rear they grip much better than crossplies on the front. This means that the front will let go long before the rear.-- understeer
This is safe.
If cross plies are on the rear then the rear will let go before the front and the car will spin.
This is dangerous.
I am often amused when drivers fit new tyres to the front because they want the best grip at the front------- other way round is best.
Try crossplies and radials on the same axle and it becomes very dangerous.
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 76
|Posted on Monday, 12 November, 2007 - 12:59: |
Vintage Tyres in the UK have the absolute, correct tyre specified by Rolls-Royce for the early Silver Shadows. It is an Avon 205HR 70-15 textile-belted radial, which uses an inner tube. Go to www.vintagetyres.com and have a look. Good luck.
Post Number: 69
|Posted on Monday, 12 November, 2007 - 16:39: |
I find this discussion very interesting. I always assumed that the correct radial for the pre-compliant cars would be 205/80/15, because that would result in a tyre that has the same diameter as a 235/70/15 (around 710mm)
A 205/70/15 tyre would be about 668mm in diameter.
What is the diameter of the original 8.45 X 15 tyre?
Post Number: 1313
|Posted on Wednesday, 14 November, 2007 - 00:37: |
KC, the diameter is the same.
This is a post I made on the US site yesterday:
According to RROC judging guidlines all shadows prior to 18xxx is supposed to have P215 15. But 70 or 75's? They dont say...
Reply by RT:
Well, forgetting the crossplies, the original until the flared guard '74 was 205x15. Then they went to 235.70x15 which are wider but have the same outside circumference. No other sizes were fitted until the Turbo R and then only on the Turbo R.
Although never fitted originally, a good size is 225.75x15 (speedo error 1% on the speeding ticket side), but a 215.75x15 works better. The 215.75x15 changes the gearing and speedo reading by about 1% on the safe side for the cops. A 70 profile on a 215 is definitely too small.
The P prefix simply stands for passenger tyre.
There are many brands of tyres these days, but too few make tyres to suit our cars. The Australians are going for the Korean Hankook tyre and are very impressed. I fitted Finnish Nokian tyres, 255.55x17, last week. They have the same outside circumference as 205x15, 235.70x15, 255.65x15 and 255.60x16, and I am very happy with them so far.