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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 873
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 01 May, 2018 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Out of approximately 530 Carmargues how many still exist in running or laid up form but complete?

Value: The Hunt House documents show the original invoice in November 1976 of 29682 sterling in London before the car embarked by ship to Hong Kong. Using an inflation calculator that figure was 200,957 Sterling in 2017 and at present exchange rate is $366,109 AUD.

The cheapest Camargue I have spotted in Australia in the last five years was $100,000 minus $1 and the most expensive was $295,000.

World wide the cheapest place is the USA around 50 to 60 grand but all are LHD.

Mine is one of the 184 RHD versions made.

The more I look into the matter of evaluating my car the more I think its practically impossible to value but Just Cars Magazine lists an A condition Camargue at $133,000 down from $140,000 3 years ago.

Rust wise only a hole the size of a dime on the left hand rear wheel arch. It arrived from New York with a note saying the third cylinder on DS was down on compression. I have stripped the engine down and cannot locate any problem at all. This car is complete and if I have to spend more than 10 grand in parts to get it on the road that will be surprising.

As is sitting two metres from me, the car cost including purchase and freight owes me only $26,000 AUD total which I think is jolly good value for money.

Having the mechanical and paint and panel skills to fix it properly puts me is a comfortable position.

Camargue like Caviar are an acquired taste. Brian I am certain would rather have a Shadow run over his foot than be seen driving a Camargue let alone owning one.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1476
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 02 May, 2018 - 04:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

you either love them or hate them.
personally i think they are amazing cars.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2549
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 03 May, 2018 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir wrote, of me, Brian I am certain would rather have a Shadow run over his foot than be seen driving a Camargue let alone owning one.

You are indeed correct. I have managed over the course of decades of reflection and revisiting various things that I could learn to love some of them. My feelings about the Camargue as a design disaster have only become more entrenched after the same reflection and revisitation. A sloppy box on wheels that was Pininfarina's greatest mistake. I don't know what he was on.

But, at the same time, I live and die by, "Chacun à son goût." It's great that there is a niche where Camargues are adored.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 880
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Thursday, 03 May, 2018 - 08:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now now Brian have you ever seen a black Camargue?. They look very swanky, and very very regal. Something about the colour of a Camargue makes a world of difference. Google Rolls Royce Camargue and then go to images and scroll down.

There is a black Camargue up against a brick building. Even you I am sure as the Forums most anti-camargueist cannot resist its evil stance.

...Then again perhaps you can!
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2550
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 04 May, 2018 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,

I cannot disagree with you in any way that paint color makes a world of difference in how the Camargue presents.

It's just where our respective endpoints on the "scale of attractiveness" lie, and I suspect the very upper end of mine is the very lower end of yours.

Brian, a pretty box is a pretty box, but it isn't a sensuous automobile
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1880
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Saturday, 05 May, 2018 - 05:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad,
Is this the car you are referring to?
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 896
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 06 May, 2018 - 09:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick it is indeed and thanks for putting it up. Any chance you can post the rear and side view as well Patrick?

If that car does not look pure swank I don't know what does but the front painted all white including the headlight surrounds on an identical Camargue is definitely a tad rough on the eye.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1891
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 06 May, 2018 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here you go mate.
As you know I am not a fan of these, but I can appreciate them for what they are.





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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 768
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 06 May, 2018 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad,

How rough is yours? Did you ever post pics?

The car has a lot of 70's styling cues going on which is not in everyone's taste (including my own) but will definitely be a car to have in a RR collection. If I had more room and less cars, I would love to have one.

Also, are those red lights below the bumper fog lights?
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Mark Herbstreit
Prolific User
Username: mark_herbstreit

Post Number: 176
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Sunday, 06 May, 2018 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This was the Camargue that was converted to a Bentley with Ferrari taillights. I photographed it at the 2013 RREC annual. It is also the car that Omar recently witnessed in an unfortunate rear-ender. It is a small world for these cars.

bencam
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1500
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 07 May, 2018 - 04:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It was heartbreaking to see this very car on the side of the road with front all smashed in.
And for me to have traveled all the way to the UK to endure that torture first hand.....
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Michael Carr
Experienced User
Username: carsie

Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Monday, 07 May, 2018 - 07:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Evening Gents, I thought I'd throw in my two half'penny re. design.

To my eye, the Carmargue is ungainly, I recall it's launch all those years ago when Shirley Bassey was lauded as a valued Client.

The problem stems from the depth of its side profile. The fluidity of line, poise, cabin to body ratio, everything else is there but alas body mass is wrong.

The elegance that is viewed in the 130, 400, Maremma, Fiat 131 is sadly missing from the Carmargue.

Where we are duped is in colour, in stockings and suspenders....

We look and we admire and we turn a blind eye based upon its "Come to Market Price", smoke and mirrors "Shirley Bassey"

I don't like to say it when I know there are owners and admirers and I stand in line to be shot at with my gold mascot and whitewall tyres (both of which I deplore)...

+++ jpeg +++ 31213 +++ Carmargue

+++Design
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 898
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Monday, 07 May, 2018 - 07:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross mine is 8/10 and certainly can't be called rough. The lights under the front bumper are fog lights. Photos of my Camargue were posted some time back and can be found in search.

Being a tad eccentric, I think the Camargue was made for me and I am probably lucky as if a Camargue was as pretty as a Shadow or Spirit the the price to buy one would be crazy.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 781
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Monday, 07 May, 2018 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is a saying among the country folk that the worst day fishing still beats the best day at work. By the same token, any Rolls-Royce is better than no Rolls-Royce. That said, stylistically it is hard to improve on the Shadow (of course not including anything previously, he said, being a pre-war and EPW aficionado!), but every Mother loves her baby...awkward though it might be.

.
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Paul Marshall
Experienced User
Username: welshbentleyboy

Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 05:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have always loved the shape of the Camargue.

I love the 1980s cars. I have bid several times for Aston Martin Lagonda's and have owned a Lotus Elite and Excel. Long live the wedge! Except the British Leyland Ambassoaors.

In the Uk when I first looked at a Camargue £18,000 would have bought a cracker.Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

Paul
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 900
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 05:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul the Arnage T. Does the bugger hoot? I may be forced to buy one sooner than later to match my Two RR in effort to convince local cowgirls I am not loaded as some wag once uttered " a Bentley is a poor man's Rolls Royce" .....
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1856
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 06:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh dear and I bought the new at the time Wolseley 18/2200 sent it back to the factory for engine mounting mods to move the engine to get the drive shafts positioned correctly [manual box] with suspension travel.

They only manufactured the auto type for some time and then call it a Princess. Once sorted the car was a flier even though it had a 4 speed box.

As for the Camargue, Farina did a cracking design job of making a large car with two doors. Refined and built by Mulliner Park Ward up to the middle of 1978 then by RR at Crewe.

IMO the car has style that would be today called a cross over to the next generation of models to come ie 4 door Spirit and Spur.

What the current design of cars are now makes me think about a Tank on wheels!
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 769
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 08:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad,
8/10?? It must take good pictures, because it really shows well.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 901
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross did you find the photos of my white Camargue on the forum?
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 772
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 08 May, 2018 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad, Site search and there it was.
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Jean-Pierre 'JP' Hilbert
Prolific User
Username: jphilbert

Post Number: 173
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 16 May, 2018 - 02:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Joining the conversation late, the sistership of the Camargue is the Ferrari 412, and everything that Pininfarina did wrong on the Camargue, they did right on the 412, IMHO.
The 412 is the only Ferrari that I could imagine buying, the Camargue is the only RR that I'd never consider owning. Any yet, both are so, so similar.
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Paul Marshall
Experienced User
Username: welshbentleyboy

Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2017
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2018 - 05:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As an 80s fan I have already listed my lust list.
I have not owned a Ferrari 412 but I have owned a Ferrari 400i. I struggle to see why car buyers fight over Daytonas where as there are to my eye many similar design features in a 400i.
I had to buy a 400i as my long legs would not fit in a mid engine Ferrari. I later graduated to a 456 . One of the best cars I ever owned. Should Have kept it!
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2566
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 17 May, 2018 - 09:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

JP wrote, in part: ". . . everything that Pininfarina did wrong on the Camargue, they did right on the 412, IMHO."

And in mine as well. Sleek from front to back, with distinct edges and creases, but not a "box" in sight!

Brian
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 908
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, 19 May, 2018 - 09:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I would love to own a 412 but sadly world lunacy has driven the prices of Ferraris and Aston Martins to Mexican Mango Madness levels.

The shape of Camargue's sides and rear I find to be superb. The front ah well looks better in black than white. I think the headlight assemblies if recessed quite a tad would really make the car much more attractive to many.

However. Its horses for courses and its the same with admiration of the female form. I like red hair and long red hair with freckles and the Marilyn Monroe shape but that is not every bodies cup of tea. Put simply Fergie was hot but Diana was not.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1519
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 20 May, 2018 - 04:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I will confess that I had to do a search for what a 412 looked like. Ferraris do it for me like Toyota Camrys. No desire there at all....
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Paul Marshall
Experienced User
Username: welshbentleyboy

Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 - 04:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh Omar! What an admission.
I have had two Ferrari and to discard them so lightly does poor appreciation of the marque. Breathtaking power, looks, road holding and public admiration.If you drive a Ferrari in Italy you can appreciate that you are driving a national icon.
Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.
Paul
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1527
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 22 May, 2018 - 05:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

one day I may try one Paul.
But it would not be because i have any desire for the marque. I am sure the driving experience will be the clinching force for me.
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Robert Howlett
Prolific User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 184
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 16 June, 2018 - 06:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir

There is another Camargue in Central Queensland.I was parked next to it. We had a school formal at the Ridges resort a few years back and there was a white, right hand drive one there .I thought it was yours, and in mint condition too.
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Michael Carr
Experienced User
Username: carsie

Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Sunday, 17 June, 2018 - 04:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

One for the Carmargue fans c/o Pistonheads :-)


Carmargue
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1557
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 17 June, 2018 - 04:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This car is so garish and truly gash that it is absolutely lovely.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2921
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 17 June, 2018 - 09:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I must be ageing faster than I think - I am appreciating and liking the Camargue more than ever. However, the Camargue above, whilst conforming to the R-R tradition of owners with arguable taste modifying their cars in "unusual" ways, is pushing my boundaries!!
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 954
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 17 June, 2018 - 09:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The headlights are amber. Who made them? The gold plating I think is not as pretty as chrome and stainless.

My Camargue has a gold Spirit of Ecstacy which I am removing as it reminds me of pretty young ladies with nose rings or eyebrow rings or lip rings - its just Ugggg!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2925
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 17 June, 2018 - 05:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir.

The headlights look like the original clear lenses have been replaced with amber/yellow fog light lenses. Gold-plating the reflector would be very difficult however someone may have been prepared to "give it a go and see what eventuates" and succeeded.

Does anyone know if the radiator shell, wheel discs and door handles are gold-plated as well?

The photo suggests they are and if this is the case, they would be a potent thief/vandal magnet.

.
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Michael Carr
Experienced User
Username: carsie

Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 19 June, 2018 - 01:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Re. Headlamps.

Back in the days when the French had yellow headlamp bulbs (a hangover from the WW2 I believe) you could buy yellow headlamp tint from car accessory shops along with the ubiquitous GB sticker which you proudly placed on the back to show that you "had been abroad"

On your return it washed off with White Spirit but it still proved a challenge in between the Lucas raised lettering on the headlamps.

Later on you could buy yellow plastic covers which also dipped the beam the correct way.

How do I know? t'was my job on the family Jag Mk10 :D
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1567
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 23 June, 2018 - 03:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hey Vlad - is this a "nice to have" item for your Camargue?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223025778552
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 979
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, 23 June, 2018 - 05:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar, my Camargue is pretty much complete and I already have those sill pinifarina plates. A rare item though as they would have only been made for Camargues, Camargues being the only Rolls Royce ever designed by that Italian Design Bureau .... or did they design another model?
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1570
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 24 June, 2018 - 04:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I also have those sill plates on my two Azures but they are Bentleys off course. I believe you are right - The Camargue may be the only Rolls-Royce that would have a Pininfarina body.

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