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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 624
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 11 November, 2017 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I pulled the distributor cap to inspect the points yesterday. Mostly because I was checking the dwell anyway. The points looked fine so I set the dwell to just under 27 degrees.

I drove all spring, summer and fall and all I had to do was twist a bolt 1/10 of a revolution to regain the desired dwell.


The car lights the candles just fine with no hiccups.

But then...

I go to start the Lotus which runs points now after the pertronix unit failed ( from heat). It was 20F and the car hadn't been driven last summer ( getting some body work done) so I didn't have a lot of confidence in the plan, but sure enough, as soon as I remembered that I drained the gas tank, pop off she goes, idles and runs fine.

Just another caution on replacing points.

Oh yeah, the 907 is an absolute peach of an engine.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1845
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 02:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Ross

Over the years I have noticed a lot of people who have had failed aftermarket electronic ignition units. When my Powerspark failed I reverted to points and have decided to stay with them, even though I have another unit waiting to go in. I notice no difference in engine performance between the two. The Rolls is a low revving engine anyway. The only disadvantage with points is the need for occasional servicing, which is no big deal. The big big advantage of points is you get plenty of forewarning of an impending failure.

Geoff
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1572
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 02:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

And points can be repaired with a blunt hammer at the side of the road.

The superiority of electronic ignition is over stated.

The RR engine was designed for points and all the spark plugs do is lite the fire.

IMHO most condensers that are replaced are still good.

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Patrick Francis
Prolific User
Username: jackpot

Post Number: 202
Registered: 11-2016
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 05:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think you are all right about this. I converted to Powerspark about a year ago. To their credit, it has been 100% reliable ever since.
But I do carry a spare and always have a possible failure in the back of my mind. Something that was never the case when I ran points that had not been changed 40 years! The one and only issue that I had with the points was a failure of the ballast resistor (not really the npoints though).
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1846
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 06:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick

As a point of interest - I run my points system through a modern 12v high output coil without the ballast resister. I did think I would get excessive pitting of the points but was advised that this would not be the case. The advice, from someone who I rate as an expert on electrics (John Kilkenny), has turned out to be correct - 2 1/2 years and no problems at all.

Geoff
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 626
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 08:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I once bought a kawasaki kz400 that didn't have an ignition for $50 usd. I took the point plate from a honda 305 scrambler and screwed it on top of the plate from the KZ and added a condenser from a 69 something or another car that had a pigtail and voila running Kawasaki.

Try taking the electronic ignition from a ninja and put it on a cbr, yeah, we call that walking.

Geoff,

The keyfob for my mini is a Lucas condenser, I figure if that went it would leave me stranded. Haven't had to use it yet.
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Maxwell Heazlewood
Frequent User
Username: tasbent

Post Number: 89
Registered: 9-2017
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 01:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hehehee....the three most hotly contested subjects on may classic forums are oil, spark plugs and electronic ignition....in that order.
Everybody has their theories or time served methods.

With electronic ignition, the majority of problems
are caused by poor installation, poor quality wiring and selecting the wrong type.
I have used EI conversions on may types of vehicles and motorcycles over the last 40 years and the ones i steer clear of are the ones that have the self contained module inside the distributor itself.
If it's one thing EI does not like it's heat and there's plenty of that around any engine.
My preference is the optical trigger type of EI
which has it's main module mounted externally away from the engine and usually in an ally heat sink casting.
Yes, they are much more expensive but mated to the correct type of coil, properly mounted and wired will last the life of the car with far superior results
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 627
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 03:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Maxwell,

I think there is a perception that electronic ignitions yield far superior results in every application. What things electronic ignition is good at kind of aren't things that would help with a old RR.

You can run a fierce coil or run crazy high rpms with an electronic ignition, but my guess.. it would be indistinguishable from points in an old RR.

If the electronic ignition can provide one benefit of reducing my annual ignition maintenance time from 5 min to 0 it would have to be free and install itself before I would get one.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1573
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 08:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross,
You are correct in that the benefits are maybe non existent with lazy engines.

Also electronic ignition is not maintenance free.
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Maxwell Heazlewood
Frequent User
Username: tasbent

Post Number: 93
Registered: 9-2017
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 09:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What rot....trotting out the same old hackneyed diatribe.....we can safely exclude you from the 'Hallowed EI Alumni' then ?
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 628
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 12 November, 2017 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Maxwell,

You are right about the MSD (and other brand) external boxes being a different ( and far better) animal, I just don't see what an electronic ignition would allow the low revving, glassy tickover, rich running, pink immune, low compression RR 6.75 do that points don't do?

Now, magic three electrode gas saving plugs and a K&N filter....
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Patrick Francis
Prolific User
Username: jackpot

Post Number: 203
Registered: 11-2016
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross
Magic three electrode gas saving plugs?
You have me intrigued.......
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1847
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 02:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bob

Re: "You are correct in that the benefits are maybe non existent with lazy engines."

Exactly my findings when I reverted back to points. There was no discernible difference - idle was the same, acceleration was the same as was the fuel consumption. I suppose if you scoped things up you would find cleaner switching with EI, but in practice there is no difference on these engines.

Geoff
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1617
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 03:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, this is a can of worms, changing the opus system to contacts and to any other non genuine system will be invisible but not with the original setup, it may run but not being full efficient in some departments!
Take the North America emission shadow 11 with a total advance of 49-60 degrees and another RR with a total of 36-40 or one with 34-38.
All with different timing curves.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1848
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 04:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick

You are absolutely right. I should have specified that my comments were aimed at "series 1" cars that came originally equipped with points.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 629
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 09:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Payrick L,

60? They did do some stuff in the early 70's trying to get cars federalized.

I pulled the vacuum retard dizzy from the Lotus, brought it down to 12.7:1 WOT and retimed it to european spec straight off. A much happier car.

I would think a RR would be happier with 40 maybe a bit higher running e15.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 13 November, 2017 - 08:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The very first EIg I came across was a sparkrite piggy back on the coil which still used points.

The unit had a switch on or off. The engine ran fine in either position.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 627
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2017 - 03:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Since the thread is on the subject of points, may I inquire the result of inadvertently leaving the ignition switch in the "on" position but without the engine running? Somewhere along the line I had heard that this could "burn the points". Is this true and if so, just what is "burning the points"? Can leaving the ignition on possibly damage the coil or other components, or is this tale rubbish?

.
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Maxwell Heazlewood
Frequent User
Username: tasbent

Post Number: 97
Registered: 9-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 14 November, 2017 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian....I have heard this can happen, especially on older systems.
If the points are in the closed position, it can make the coil heat up and also damage the capacitor.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1621
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2017 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

IMO the points if in a good state when closed left with the ignition on will have no bearing on the damage to the condenser.
The same does not always apply to the coil, if left on for a long period they have been known to leak the bitchumen through excess heat primary windings, but once cooled down the coil in most cases will work ok.
Replace if any leakage occurs.
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Alan Dibley
Prolific User
Username: alsdibley

Post Number: 108
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 15 November, 2017 - 03:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

One advantage of electronic ignition systems is that they only energise the coil when the engine is running. Coils can be damaged by overheating - some 2CV systems, for instance, and, I am sure, others.

Alan D.

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