| Author | Message | ||
     ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 624 Registered: 11-2015 |
I pulled the distributor cap to inspect the points yesterday. Mostly because I was checking the dwell anyway. The points looked fine so I set the dwell to just under 27 degrees. I drove all spring, summer and fall and all I had to do was twist a bolt 1/10 of a revolution to regain the desired dwell. The car lights the candles just fine with no hiccups. But then... I go to start the Lotus which runs points now after the pertronix unit failed ( from heat). It was 20F and the car hadn't been driven last summer ( getting some body work done) so I didn't have a lot of confidence in the plan, but sure enough, as soon as I remembered that I drained the gas tank, pop off she goes, idles and runs fine. Just another caution on replacing points. Oh yeah, the 907 is an absolute peach of an engine. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1845 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Ross Over the years I have noticed a lot of people who have had failed aftermarket electronic ignition units. When my Powerspark failed I reverted to points and have decided to stay with them, even though I have another unit waiting to go in. I notice no difference in engine performance between the two. The Rolls is a low revving engine anyway. The only disadvantage with points is the need for occasional servicing, which is no big deal. The big big advantage of points is you get plenty of forewarning of an impending failure. Geoff | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1572 Registered: 5-2015 |
And points can be repaired with a blunt hammer at the side of the road. The superiority of electronic ignition is over stated. The RR engine was designed for points and all the spark plugs do is lite the fire. IMHO most condensers that are replaced are still good. | ||
| Patrick Francis Prolific User Username: jackpot Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2016 |
I think you are all right about this. I converted to Powerspark about a year ago. To their credit, it has been 100% reliable ever since. But I do carry a spare and always have a possible failure in the back of my mind. Something that was never the case when I ran points that had not been changed 40 years! The one and only issue that I had with the points was a failure of the ballast resistor (not really the npoints though). | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1846 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Patrick As a point of interest - I run my points system through a modern 12v high output coil without the ballast resister. I did think I would get excessive pitting of the points but was advised that this would not be the case. The advice, from someone who I rate as an expert on electrics (John Kilkenny), has turned out to be correct - 2 1/2 years and no problems at all. Geoff | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 626 Registered: 11-2015 |
I once bought a kawasaki kz400 that didn't have an ignition for $50 usd. I took the point plate from a honda 305 scrambler and screwed it on top of the plate from the KZ and added a condenser from a 69 something or another car that had a pigtail and voila running Kawasaki. Try taking the electronic ignition from a ninja and put it on a cbr, yeah, we call that walking. Geoff, The keyfob for my mini is a Lucas condenser, I figure if that went it would leave me stranded. Haven't had to use it yet. | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Frequent User Username: tasbent Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2017 |
Hehehee....the three most hotly contested subjects on may classic forums are oil, spark plugs and electronic ignition....in that order. Everybody has their theories or time served methods. With electronic ignition, the majority of problems are caused by poor installation, poor quality wiring and selecting the wrong type. I have used EI conversions on may types of vehicles and motorcycles over the last 40 years and the ones i steer clear of are the ones that have the self contained module inside the distributor itself. If it's one thing EI does not like it's heat and there's plenty of that around any engine. My preference is the optical trigger type of EI which has it's main module mounted externally away from the engine and usually in an ally heat sink casting. Yes, they are much more expensive but mated to the correct type of coil, properly mounted and wired will last the life of the car with far superior results | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 627 Registered: 11-2015 |
Maxwell, I think there is a perception that electronic ignitions yield far superior results in every application. What things electronic ignition is good at kind of aren't things that would help with a old RR. You can run a fierce coil or run crazy high rpms with an electronic ignition, but my guess.. it would be indistinguishable from points in an old RR. If the electronic ignition can provide one benefit of reducing my annual ignition maintenance time from 5 min to 0 it would have to be free and install itself before I would get one. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1573 Registered: 5-2015 |
Ross, You are correct in that the benefits are maybe non existent with lazy engines. Also electronic ignition is not maintenance free. | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Frequent User Username: tasbent Post Number: 93 Registered: 9-2017 |
What rot....trotting out the same old hackneyed diatribe.....we can safely exclude you from the 'Hallowed EI Alumni' then ?  | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 628 Registered: 11-2015 |
Maxwell, You are right about the MSD (and other brand) external boxes being a different ( and far better) animal, I just don't see what an electronic ignition would allow the low revving, glassy tickover, rich running, pink immune, low compression RR 6.75 do that points don't do? Now, magic three electrode gas saving plugs and a K&N filter.... | ||
| Patrick Francis Prolific User Username: jackpot Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2016 |
Ross Magic three electrode gas saving plugs? You have me intrigued....... | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1847 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Bob Re: "You are correct in that the benefits are maybe non existent with lazy engines." Exactly my findings when I reverted back to points. There was no discernible difference - idle was the same, acceleration was the same as was the fuel consumption. I suppose if you scoped things up you would find cleaner switching with EI, but in practice there is no difference on these engines. Geoff | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1617 Registered: 9-2004 |
Geoff, this is a can of worms, changing the opus system to contacts and to any other non genuine system will be invisible but not with the original setup, it may run but not being full efficient in some departments! Take the North America emission shadow 11 with a total advance of 49-60 degrees and another RR with a total of 36-40 or one with 34-38. All with different timing curves. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1848 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Patrick You are absolutely right. I should have specified that my comments were aimed at "series 1" cars that came originally equipped with points. | ||
| ross kowalski Grand Master Username: cdfpw Post Number: 629 Registered: 11-2015 |
Payrick L, 60? They did do some stuff in the early 70's trying to get cars federalized. I pulled the vacuum retard dizzy from the Lotus, brought it down to 12.7:1 WOT and retimed it to european spec straight off. A much happier car. I would think a RR would be happier with 40 maybe a bit higher running e15. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1574 Registered: 5-2015 |
The very first EIg I came across was a sparkrite piggy back on the coil which still used points. The unit had a switch on or off. The engine ran fine in either position. | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 627 Registered: 4-2015 |
Since the thread is on the subject of points, may I inquire the result of inadvertently leaving the ignition switch in the "on" position but without the engine running? Somewhere along the line I had heard that this could "burn the points". Is this true and if so, just what is "burning the points"? Can leaving the ignition on possibly damage the coil or other components, or is this tale rubbish? . | ||
| Maxwell Heazlewood Frequent User Username: tasbent Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2017 |
Christian....I have heard this can happen, especially on older systems. If the points are in the closed position, it can make the coil heat up and also damage the capacitor. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1621 Registered: 9-2004 |
IMO the points if in a good state when closed left with the ignition on will have no bearing on the damage to the condenser. The same does not always apply to the coil, if left on for a long period they have been known to leak the bitchumen through excess heat primary windings, but once cooled down the coil in most cases will work ok. Replace if any leakage occurs. | ||
| Alan Dibley Prolific User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2009 |
One advantage of electronic ignition systems is that they only energise the coil when the engine is running. Coils can be damaged by overheating - some 2CV systems, for instance, and, I am sure, others. Alan D. |
