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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1351
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 03:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I wonder if i should bid for this car??
what do you guys think?

https://www.copartmea.com/lot/45276567
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 360
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 04:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hmmm... tough one. I like things with history, even if the history was ugly. I wouldn't do it if I thought I was enriching those responsible for the ugliness, but I doubt that's the case here.

My wife on the other hand feels differently, and there doesn't seem to be a generally-accepted etiquette for this kind of stuff. So I usually end up passing.
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Mark Luft
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 04:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar, how do you know who the previous owner was?
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1593
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 04:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar, what a car and if the mileage is correct a real bonus, it has to be bought.
Just love the Pininfarina styled cars.
May need a good going over but it looks in fair shape.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2486
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 08:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

They're certainly not clear about the provenance of the car itself in the listing. Given its age and where its spent its life it's clearly been in climate controlled storage of some sort given the condition of the hides and wood.

Given your skill with cars in general if it interests you I'd certainly bid on it. I have never warmed to the Camargue and still can't believe that body came from Pininfarina.

I am presuming that the 4147 is km, which translates to approximately 2575 miles, would concern me greatly with regard to making the car roadworthy again. This car has been what I call "rolling sculpture" and disuse is the worst thing for electromechanical and automotive systems. Revival from its persistent vegetative state will be interesting, that's for sure!

Brian
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Maxwell Heazlewood
Frequent User
Username: tasbent

Post Number: 85
Registered: 9-2017
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 03:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar enquired....>>>>I wonder if I should bid for this car??
what do you guys think?

https://www.copartmea.com/lot/45276567....>>>>>

Hello Omar....you are right on the spot and despite it's so called provenance, would make an interesting project.
It's quite unusual to see one with a fitted vinyl roof.
Being such low klm, it goes without saying that a complete mechanical re-commissioning would be needed.
These are a rare car and deserves to be saved.
I must say, I like the little touch with the sunnies
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1595
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 05:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Going along with the LHM use on my CX and 2CV over the years with BX thrown in but now sold, without much of the probs with DOT3/4 use.
Nice to see the Camargue with LHM use.
Engine runs and selects a drive!
Wow it still has its original working distributor and black cap etc.
Would be good to hear the injection running!
Omar this car is one to buy IMO.
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Mark Herbstreit
Prolific User
Username: mark_herbstreit

Post Number: 170
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 07:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A solex not injected. Like mine mineral oil with the cooling system of the shadow. The best combo imo. That dash has been butchered. It does not appear to be bookmatched veneer no bevels, knobs and surrounds all wrong. Wrong gauges. Zoom in on the speedo bevel, it may explain the low reading!
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 361
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 08:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The modifications to the dash are interesting. Are those all custom knobs?

Lovely contrasting piping on the seats....
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 08:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark good points, picture 10 on the far right may show the origin of the replacement dash company or all of the woodwork, or it may be a coat of arms!
I think that all veneer is still kept at the factory for most cars built!

A quick look at the car in the flesh would confirm the miles
Ie rotors, belt pulleys, weep holes etc etc.

Thanks for Solex info.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Friday, 03 November, 2017 - 09:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Keep your eye on the big prize Omar.

The big prize is a Phantom VII.
Not a Camargue.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1352
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 02:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Phantom is a different project - nothing will get in the way of that project (other than me not being able to sell 10 cars that is).

The Camargue is about the car for me. I dont give a flying F*%$ who owned it before to be honest. The fact that it is a timewarp car is what makes it exciting.

There are many deviations from standard as you can see. That is because a lot of stuff was stolen from the car before it left Iraq. The replacement items have not been ideal (hubcaps temperature gauge mirrors etc).
Those who know these cars can advise how wrong the dash is. If it has been changed then I dont really want to know. If the dash and the wood on it is factory original then i would be keen to look further. The chances are that the owners are looking for way more than I am willing to bid for this car.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1353
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 02:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

ooops.....
I just got a message from the owner of the car and ..... oh yes.... the reserve price is a lot more than I had even imagined.
Looks like I will not be bidding after all.
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Jeff Young
Grand Master
Username: jeyjey

Post Number: 362
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 02:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It was an interesting diversion, anyway.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2487
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 03:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

If you're really interested in the car then I'd do one of two things (or, perhaps, both):

1. Immediately after the auction is over contact the seller and make them a direct offer for whatever you are comfortable making an offer for. That's how I ended up coming into possession of SRH33576. Although there wasn't an auction involved, per se, it's also how I came into possession of LRK37110. I made a low ball offer based on the fact the car had been sitting for years and would take a major effort to recommission. I also told the owner she should take any offer she might receive that was above mine, even if by $1. After several failed attempts to sell at above my offer, and below what she had wanted to get, I received a phone call when I was away for Thanksgiving telling me that the car was mine. I paid $5K US for it which, given that it was one-owner and had been very well maintained for most of its life by a RR dealer, was a very good deal. I could get that out of it in parts (but am not going to).

2. Watch for it to be auctioned again, most likely with a lower to much lower reserve. Lather, rinse, repeat if they cycle through more than one auction. Many sellers of RRs have a grossly inflated vision of what the actual values of their cars are. They usually learn after several auctioning attempts (sometimes only one) that you can only get what someone will offer, and for these cars, particularly of the SY era, that's usually much less than they thought they'd get at the outset.

Brian, who would still love to own that purple Corniche FHC that was built for the Shah of Iran's sister
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 1354
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 04:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Brian,
You are so right in what you say.
In this case I already know the owner and i contacted him directly. He told me what he was expecting to sell the car for. This man knows classic cars and also knows the market. Given the car's history it could well sell for his asking price although I dont believe the car itself is worth any more than a Camargue with low mileage.

And oh that lovely Corniche Brian.......
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2488
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Saturday, 04 November, 2017 - 08:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Someone I know who has been a private broker for the sale of many Rolls-Royce and Bentley motorcars says he only on the rarest of occasions adds anything to the price of a motorcar of significant provenance unless it's *really* significant in some way. Were a car to have belonged to Princess Diana of Wales, Hitler, Rudolph Valentino, or a similar "personage of the ages" it might make some difference, but not because of the car but because of interest in who owned it. In most cases he's said that hoping to get even one dollar more for "interesting" provenance is usually an exercise in futility.

I agree with your assessment that this particular Camargue has no additional value added secondary to the claimed provenance. All the more so since certain "irregular" changes have been made, even if they can be unmade. It was interesting to see the engine bay, though. This was the first "in the flesh" image I've seen of a Solex carb-ed car. (By the way, based on everything I've read on any RR forum about the Solex, that's a distinct minus.)

Brian

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