| Author | Message | ||
     John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 209 Registered: 12-2004 |
The Feb. issue of the popular enthusiasts English magazine, "Practical Classics", contains a 2 page color feature (P110/111) reveiwing Silver Shadow OWNERSHIP as opposed to the usual articles dealing with purchase etc. The major technical contributor (as thanked by the publishers) are noted and respected U.K experts, Haines & Hall (Morden) with much of what is recorded being more or less common knowledge. We are reminded to withdraw our dipstick only once, to note the level indicated, for if you enter it a second time (after "wiping") you can push a column of air down the tube, thereby displacing oil (at base level) to provide an incorrect reading. They further suggest 20/50 grade ("top" quality) oil, confirming that, "engines use oil anyway, but consumption will rise steeply with modern synthetics", with informed readers already being long aware of that fact. There is some discussion about rear spring seats rusting out as do rear bumper corners and of course wheel arches as per the many nasty photos I often see from the U.K. As for driving, they note; "the cabin should be silent except for a hint of rear axle whine" and "gear changes should be almost imperceptible if you're not PUSHING it". Thanks again to acknowledged R-R specialist, Mike Hall! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 586 Registered: 4-2003 |
Oh well, seeing it's printed somewhere or other, then it must be true. A hint, eh. "..." | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2005 |
My car whines from the rear... ...but ONLY when my kids sit there  GN. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 335 Registered: 9-2004 |
Both my Rolls are quiet as a ghost..... Dip stick! oil level gauge!!!!!!!!! Synthetic Oil------no sludge! | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bit of a pun there Pat... John, as the factory recommends synthetic oils on all cars from at least 1990, and these cars differ little mechanically from the Shadows, I would have thought synthetic oil would be the only way to go, unless there was more advanced wear needing higher viscosity. Even then, there are high viscosity semi-synthetics. Even Ferrari recommend synthetic oils retrospectively to all models back to about 1955! Perhaps I am wrong for some reason, but I would prefer slightly higher oil consumption with the advantages synthetic oils bring, than an exemplary oil consumption with sludge formation, poor cold-start protection, etc, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong... GN. (have I just opened Pandora's box with this topic? If so I will do a complete hydraulic service as penance....WHAT AM I SAYING?!  ) | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. As I have indicated under other recent threads, the question of "best" oil can keep you awake at night. I bought my first R-R 10 years ago and prior to meeting my current R-R service provider, was not confident with the quality of the local service/maint. advice that was forthcoming, if and when it did. This resulted in my contacting people in the U.K such as Tony James (I seem to recall) Eric Healey and Mike Hall, the latter kindly providing the tech. input for the magazine article now the subject of this particular thread. Perhaps it is misguided trust, but I have always tended to accept advice from qualified, LONG experienced prof. specialists, especially when there is a "meeting of minds" which delivers the SAME (essentially) answers or findings. If I ignore their collective advice, then I feel I am reduced to being like a person attempting to drive through NSW with a map of Victoria!.  | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, Therein lies the value of forums such as these. I respect all opinions, even if I don't always agree. You can get help, exchange ideas, and get different opinions..one may not always agree with the various opinions, and we all have our own little preferences and biases, but at least it allows you to make an informed decision/choice/action with at least most possibilities considered and mulled over. If we all agreed with each other it would be a dull, dull world...don't you think? (and if you don't agree with ME I'll send da boys around! ) GN. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 591 Registered: 4-2003 |
Pat, the above description of oil level measurement is pure wind up. Anyone who has ever checked the oil level on a warm Crewe V8 will tell you that. The oil must be checked hot, and a reading on the dipstick is impossible without wiping it clean first. Also, the dipstick only seals when it is pushed fully home. Maybe 0.1ml of air will be pushed down into the sump, hardly a column of air compared to the cavernous and ventilated crankcase. No amount of name dropping will convince anyone to measure the oil level in the manner described. At best the reading will be meaningless, and if your sump sender is sadly faulty you will probably underfill the sump. Here is an extract from the Owner's Handbook. Just because it is written down does not automatically make it correct, but the source is surely a credible one: the manufacturer itself decades after the V8 was first introduced. ps my oil consumption dropped when I switched to full synthetic.  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 592 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, I agree on the benefits of synthetic oils. It took years for me to be convinced, but that I am. Crewe first included full synthetic oils, including Mobil 1, in the service and owner's literature at the 20,000-series SZ launch in 1986 for the 1987 Model Year cars. Later, they made it retrospective. If there's any line to be drawn at all on synthetic oils, it's SZ chassis 6750 around 1982 when the valve stem seals were uprated to the 20th Century. Oil consumption was then relegated to ancient history. Without proper valve stem seals, the cars may use a little extra oil if synthetic, and as with mineral oil it is contaminated rather quickly in these motors, albeit to a lesser degree with synthetics. Earlier cars with the seals retrofitted will benefit enormously from synthetic oils, but even unmodified motors benefit greatly too. The first thing you notice with synthetics is instantly and absolutely quiet tappets on cold start, followed by a motor which feels instantly warmed up. Unlike with mineral oil, fuel does not wash synthetic oil off the bores and it pumps into where it's needed much more quickly, so start-up wear falls dramatically. Start-up is a very high wear phase, and any improvement is welcome. The long-term benefits of no sludge and vastly improved wear rates are bonuses. A good synthetic oil can be 5W50, so there is no need to bog a worn motor with a heavy oil these days. Even 10W40 is pretty good for an oil burner. I personally see no point in semi-synthetics. It's like drinking Bollinger mixed with Asti Spumante. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2004 |
I really did not believe that I had to spell out the rather obvious, but will now quote further, the text (see prev. post) from noted R-R Shadow expert, Mike Hall. "Check the engine oil level after the car has been sitting (eg. overnight) by removing the dipstick ONCE only". He then went on the explain how subsequent insertions can corrupt the reading of the true level. That would apply whether you have normal oil or synthetic and if the latter, you of course need to be more mindful of the level due to the increased consumption. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, I'm afraid I have to agree with Richard on this, and despite the firm logic against, have just experimented on my car today. No amount of repetition, plunging or pumping of the dipstick seems to make any difference to the reading, and for the reasons that Richard states I can't see that it could. IF there was a sealing ring part way along the dipstick, as with some Italian cars, that would be a different matter. Perhaps Mike Hall has experience with other cars with such an arrangement and has mistakenly extrapolated the same rule to the Shadow. Try it on your car as a test. If you get different readings then I'll scratch my head further... GN. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 223 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. Another restless night as I reflected upon the old joke about R-R's (incl.B's!!)and pineapples. My apologies of course for the belated response as I've received a dozen derisory tel.calls and e'mails (e'MAULS!) about The Terrible Turbo Tragedy and these I am attempting to "defend"; vigorously of course! Sadly  despite my very best efforts, "Turbo Tales" are feversishly migrating to every part of the globe at this very moment, doing little I imagine, for current market values. As my Shadow has been dormant at a holiday home for the past 10 days, the approaching week end will represent the ideal time to record the TRUE and PRECISE oil (sump) level, deploying the sound and reliable method used by renowned R.R.E.C (UK) technical advisor, Mike Hall. On the following day, I will adopt old Farmer Browns "plunge-in", International Harvester (or Fordson) method and record (if possible!) the dubious level produced by the effects of hydraulic shock etc. With a "Nikon" magnifier and a vernier I will record the inevitable difference which I expect to be displayed by the respective readings. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, without wanting to harp on, if you check the level when COLD and after sitting overnight, all the oil will have drained back to the sump from the nether regions of the engine, and you will get a FALSE (HIGH) reading. ie/ if you set your oil level by this reading, under actual running conditions your oil level will be a bit on the LOW side...possibly not good depending how low. As RT has pointed out, RR have designed the distick length for a HOT oil measurement after a brief (4min) sit, not a cold overnight sit. Although manufacturer's can get it wrong, I would follow the RR recommendations on this, which do concur with the majority of car makes I have seen, with a few exceptions as noted above. Cheers, GN. | ||
| RR Forums Administrator Board Administrator Username: admin Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2002 |
This thread has been closed after triggering the following alerts. * Vanity thread and thread domination. * Thread topic not followed. * Grandstanding and ill will. * Abusive posts in response (now deleted). The subject has been addressed satisfactorily. No more needs to be said on this subject. |
