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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 918
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 05:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If I have bought a car that has had crappy oil in it for a long time can I use transmission oil as a cleaning agent? would it cause a problem to run an engine with transmission oil for a few days and then drain and fill with proper oil?
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gary webb
New User
Username: webbgw

Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2014
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 07:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

hi omar
no DONT use auto oil
use 500 mls of diesel fuel and run engine fast idle until operating temp and then drain and replace oil filter
DONT drive vehicle
gary
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 661
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 08:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar don't use atf John is right diesel is best, flush and drain, don't drive it.

Richard.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 08:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Flush with engine oil 20/50 Change after 500 miles then repeat.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 187
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 11:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

You should use Marvel Mystery Oil instead, as it has a far hipper name.
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 369
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2016 - 20:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar would it be possible to remove the sump, as likely it will have a layer of filth which will spread around the engine when you flush it.
Mark
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 919
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2016 - 03:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.
I was really asking WHY we shouldn't use transmission fluid for flushing. Is there an engineering reason not to do it?
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 188
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2016 - 04:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

No and while light actually ATF has a good film strength. Just watch that the oil pressure while "on the juice"
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 189
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 23 November, 2016 - 09:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Mark is right, if the sump can be pulled it is probably best to do so.

I forgot to mention, I just put a quart of MMO in the new Jag's oil and another in the gas tank (reads empty) before running it for an hour then draining the oil.

I did keep an eye on the oil pressure during this procedure. There is a product for sale in the USA called Motor Flush by Solder Seal. It is kerosene.
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Larry Kavanagh
Experienced User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2016
Posted on Thursday, 24 November, 2016 - 07:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I recently added a half litre of ATF to the engine oil in my Silver Shadow 11 and drove for a couple of hundred miles then changed the oil and filter. Didn't notice any drop in oil pressure but the tappets definitely sounded quieter afterwards, Larry.
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Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 81.97.26.213
Posted on Saturday, 26 November, 2016 - 06:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Larry

You have done exactly what R-R experimental engineers did over 60 years ago, way before the Shadow was thought about. I know because I worked for 7 years with ex- RR experimental engineers on fleet work in the early 60,s.It is very effective at quietening cam followers that are "shuttle cocking" on EPW six cylinder engines.

ATF, in spite of its viscosity has tremendous film strength and a remarkable ability to quieten engines and not only those with hydraulic tappets. I have used ATF in numerous different engines, and in high numbers for at least 50 years and I am still awaiting the first set of bearings failing.

I have never operated one of my cars without 3% to 5% ATF in the engine in the last 55 years.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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richard george yeaman
Grand Master
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 663
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 00:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar I think Mr Geeson has answered this question with a positive yes to ATF, Thank you Sir.

Richard.
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 371
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 02:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Norman is shuttlecocking a cam follower noise that is intermittent and sounds not dissimilar to a slack tappet (slightly deeper) predominantly when cold and not only RR& B ?
Mark
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John Beech
Experienced User
Username: jbeech

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 03:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This has been quite an interesting discussion. I've long used a quart of diesel as a detergent before oil changes on cars I suspect of negligent care, so I am in the camp for using it to clean. Meanwhile, Tootsie makes a stuck lifter noise in the mornings - but only sometimes - and it quickly goes away. My suspicion is it's to do with the hydraulic pump lifters. While I could be all wet on this, it's where my head is at (at present). Anyway, based on this conversation I think I'll try adding a pint of ATF and see what happens.

For USA readers, what's the best source of oil filters for my Shadow? Finally, I am partial to Mobile 1, is there any reason for not using this?
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 922
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 04:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks everyone for your contributions.
I think I will go away now and contemplate the responses.
Best Regards to all.
Omar
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 05:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mobile 1 good oil for RR
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 704
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 06:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I will be interested to know what you end up doing Omar.

It's an interesting issue that's for sure.

My car gets a tap every now and then, but I haven't worried to much about it at the moment.
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Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 81.97.26.213
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 06:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Guys
I would not want to mislead anyone here. My comments related to permanently running with 3% to 5% ATF in the sump.

Diesel is definitely a very good flushing agent. One has only to look at 1950’s/1970,s diesel engines when we had leak off injector rails. Those engines always had fuel oil leakage down the bores and accumulated diesel in the sump. Providing the engine oil was changed on a regular basis these engines would be nearly as clean as new even at 500.000 mile mid term overhauls.

If one doubts diesel fuel lubrication ability then one needs to look no further than the injector pump on these engines, these were nearly all lubricated by pure diesel fuel. Some pumps were initially filled with engine oil but subsequent operation resulted in diesel replacing the engine oil.

“Shuttle cocking” is when the cam rider has a tendency to stick in the cylinder block bore and is slammed by the rotating cam up the bore, only to be slammed back again by the valve gear. This happens on a few engines and in particular the later R-R post war six cylinder, where no 5 inlet cam rider often exhibits this fault. In this instance the number 5 cylinder bore distorts under pressure from No 4 and No 6, no coolant passes between these cylinders, and this distortion also distorts No 5 cam rider bores.

Another engine affected is the Packard 8, but that has a few strange design arrangements in the piston area, even small design differences have a trade off were tight cam rider bores are concerned.

Apologise for a long discussion on ATF

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 07:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

John - I think you are correct in diagnosing the hydraulic pump lifters. This is a very common problem in these cars. I am told it will do no harm. The pumps are lubricated by the brake fluid, hence the need for RR363 or YAK/OMAR 363, which contains it's own lubricant for this purpose. If adding ATF to the oil does make a difference then your first suspicion would be correct i.e. a sticking hydraulic cam follower.

I buy my filters from here:

http://www.post55parts.com/Oil-Filters-for-Silver-Clouds-Bentley-Ss-Silver-Shadows-Chassis-01001-26700_p_47.html

17 bucks.

Geoff
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Mark Aldridge
Grand Master
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 372
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, 27 November, 2016 - 07:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Norman , thanks for your advice. This happens on my 1956 S1 intermittently sometimes when cold but I also had the problem on an A series BMC unit with updated cross drilled tappets although on buildup, everything felt fine.
Will try a small quantity of TQF in the S1 oil next change Runs on Silkolene 20/50 )

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