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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 178
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 24 December, 2004 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Something for the folk to look at who like to do mods for the better or worse.
Thought i would do some shots of the pitmam arm silly me it has a rack with not one weep.
No h/pumps two brake systems etc.

engine bay.

(Message edited by david_gore on December 28, 2004)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 183
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 25 December, 2004 - 08:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

16" alloys + plenty more.16" alloys+more.
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Jon Rothwell
Frequent User
Username: jon_rothwell

Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, 25 December, 2004 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Looks like a nice clean car (at least the bits in the photos), I'd rather see one "converted" and roadworthy than an unroadworthy accident waiting to happen, or worse, a car being dismantled for parts.
Those twin boosters look great, some time must have been spent to get them right.
Any more pictures?
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Robert Wort
New User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, 26 December, 2004 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have one question. How would you get to the spark plugs with those boosters? They are already a swine to get to as they are. Perhaps the owner has some trained elves to get to them.
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Jon Rothwell
Frequent User
Username: jon_rothwell

Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, 26 December, 2004 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now come on guys you need to do better than that!
Try removing the spark plugs from an Australian XC Ford fitted with the Cleveland V8. Most cars have bits and bolts that are hard to get to, but thatís not really the point here.
Have a close look at the photos.
A lot of work has gone into fitting the boosters, lots of under bonnet bits have been modified or moved. Regardless of if you agree with it or not, someone has taken the time to nut out what is required, and to implement a reasonable solution to a problem.
Itís easy to criticize someone elseís conversion, but the question is could you do better?
It would take me a lot of effort to work out a better conversion, and I admit that and can have respect for someone else who has taken the time to do it, regardless of if I agree with it or not!
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 186
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 27 December, 2004 - 06:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

John R. Robert W.
Plugs no problem.3/8 drive rachet and universal pictures enclosed n/s and o/s bank.
Also A picture of the dry rack,still think it a fault with the dynamic balancing, cause of rack problems.

Plugs

plugs

(Message edited by david_gore on December 28, 2004)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 187
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 27 December, 2004 - 06:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sorry chaps pictures in reverse order on previous posting.
Rack picture with luck.

no leaks rack.

pan gard

(Message edited by david_gore on December 28, 2004)
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Robert Wort
New User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, 27 December, 2004 - 09:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gentlemen, my question about the spark plugs should not be interpreted as a criticism of the conversion as I agree that by the photos, a lot a thought went into the job. It is far better to 'practicalize' on some aspects of a vehicle than to scrap it altogether. It will then be the choice of some future owner as to whether they want to convert it back to original specs if they or their bank accounts permit them to do so. I am certainly not in favour of sending any real (British) RR/B's to the wreckers as their rarity will now surely increase.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 188
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 27 December, 2004 - 08:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

LPG is now established in most areas in Shell stations in the Uk.
This is the twin vaporizors on a SS2-SS1.
Start up and some short use on long runs is on the t/s fuel in the tank.
This is a must as the top piston rings and the inlet valves run dry on lpg.
lpg
lpg set up.
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Robert Wort
Experienced User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, 27 December, 2004 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Patrick,
I have run my Ford exclusively on LPG for the last 7 years without any incident to my engine. You can in Australia purchase a lead replacement injector kit to guard against valve seat recession.
As it seems that you reside in the UK. (My birthplace), it would probably be wise to start on petrol until you have reached operating temperature before switching to LPG, particularly in winter as the pipes can freeze up and starve your fuel supply. Have your gas converters periodically checked for oil build-up as well (Yes LPG does have oil content which accumulates after time), and this should save you the expense of unit replacement ( I learned the hard way). It's a great idea and will save you a fortune in fuel costs as well as being environmentally friendly. I am seriously considering the same for my R-R in the not-too-distant future.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 189
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 28 December, 2004 - 05:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert w.You are most correct to do a drain on each vaporizor,i carry it out once a year and the fluid gives off a most horrible smell.
To mention a few a few things of interest when i carried out the lpg conversion a long time ago.
First i thought i could use one vaporizer with a "y"feeding each carb.
starting and normal running was Ok,But oh dear on hills i just could not get the full power.
The decission was made to have two after starting up a hill on half throtle when full throtle was needed due to the build up of cars behind,the car appeared to have a flat spot and the with an almighty explosion and a flame came out of the rear exhust,needless to say a quick turn over to petrol and away i fled!leaving the cars stopped on the hill with flashing lights to tell me i had a problem.
So the twin running vaporizors were the answer.
I also found the delivery jets had to be of just the correct machined angles and positioning was critical.
The configuration of the carbs to the inlet track made the vaporizers interesting to set up,scope and the power balance etc is a must.
I will stay with the two stroke petrol mix on start up and a little running on long trips just for the lub of the valve guides etc.
Can put some pixs of the other interesting bits if required?
Pix testing the mascot spring!
Seasons greetings to all.
Now a we dram.
testing.
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Robert Wort
Experienced User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 28 December, 2004 - 09:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interesting Picture Patrick,
Do we now call the vehicle a 'Silver Hare'? No! I won't give up my day job for comedy. By the way! How do you upload pictures on this thread please? I would like to share some pics of my vehicle.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 192
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 05:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert,
Silver Pheasant may be more apt!
Robert to ask me about useing this machine a may not be the best to give advice,i will have a go but David Gore has put me in the correct direction only a the other day with my pictures going of on the landscape direction!
Resizeing is another important issue?
On the left of the posting under documentation go to formatting and click on to it,then go to images attachments etc.
If you still have a problem then go back to utilities
click contact and enter David gore etc.
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Robert Wort
Experienced User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 06:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think I need new glasses.
Thanks for the tip.
I'll give it a try.
Enjoy the pheasants (not hares)
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John Dare
Frequent User
Username: jgdare

Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 07:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is much current discussion regarding engine transplants with concurrent braking and suspension modifications, mainly for Shadow/Spirit cars, refer the weblink kindly advised by W.Hunter. There is even talk about new larger dia. brake discs/rotors complete with revised spindles and callipers etc to compensate the speed/weight etc of such a "re-engined" higher performance car.We should commend our American friends who are always ready to adapt and accept challenges no matter how daunting they might at first appear. One issue which perhaps needs to be addressed in any general (major) conversion process is the ELECTRICS, particularly for the later Spirit series (now becoming older;15+ etc)where I understand some OEM elec. components are staggeringly expensive (IF available long term?) this being the main reason why the Shadow conversion (engine) issue arose in the first instance. Again, the underlying FUTURE objective will be to keep SPIRITS on the road, as we are currently attempting to do with some of todays Shadows. Since "Toyota" are supposed to make the best auto. electronics on the planet (only what Ive "heard"!) maybe some of their componentry could be interfaced into R-Rs?. After all, R-R eventually went to Japanese air.cond. (as I recall) so the shock to the system wouldnt be that great, subject of course to the technical feasability of any such proposal.
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Robert Wort
Experienced User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes John, I often wonder about that. It seems that although Toyotas and Hondas are fairly complex cars, they still return a high standard of reliability. I've been wondering myself if such items could be interfaced with our beloved carriages to enhance their reliability also. For instance, my headlight wipers and outside temperature guage have never worked and because they are there, I would like them to. Trouble is, when I ask for a quote to fix these problems, everyone ducks for cover. Incidentally, Glenn Bold (Rob Chapman's Auto Electrician) is upgrading my electronic ignition next week with an after market product that is more reliable. I wonder if any of these parts are Japanese made?
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 352
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert and a belated welcome to our Forum,

Briefly, to keep demands on our server to realistic levels; upload file sizes are restricted to around 100Kb. Colour pictures are best resized to 640 x 480 pixels [portrait] or 480 x 680 pixels [landscape] with medium compression in JPG/JPEG format to comply with this restriction and to remain viewable without scrolling- B&W photos can be higher quality but you really do not gain much by doing this. Almost all image editing software programs supplied with digital cameras have this capability. If you have problems, please contact me direct as suggested by Pat. For Pat's information, my editing of the 20HP posts with the "panorama" pictures was successful using the procedure I suggested to you.
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Robert Wort
Experienced User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 01:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have some snapshots on file but they seem too big to post. I will probably have to invest in a digital camera and take your instructions from there. Many thanks David. I will keep trying.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 354
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 01:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert,

Do you have any image/photo editing software at all?

If you have Windows XP I think it has this as standard. I know Windows 2000 does not but I think Windows 98 had a program called PhotoEditor.

If you have a scanner, does the scanning software include photo-editing capabilities?

These programs should be able to resize your photo files for you - if this is not possible, please let me know through the "CONTACT" link on the LHS of this page and I will send you a private email address you can send your files for resizing by me for you.

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Robert Wort
Frequent User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 29 December, 2004 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David, a message is onits way. I'm afraid that I'm still a bit of a dummy when it comes to computers. I have only just got over my old prejudice that PCs are nothing more than a typewriter with a TV screen behind it. Everything I have attempted so far on this contraption has been self taught and I must admit that I am now 'hooked' on the thing.
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 137
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, 30 December, 2004 - 09:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,
I have been off line for a couple of weeks and have just seen your very interesting pictures,great detail.

I have many questions about the brake and LPG conversions,as you know these subjects are of particular interest to me.

Firstly I am intrigued to know what supplies the pressure to the two remote vac/booster on the brake conversion and is the self leveling still operative.

Secondly,I am perplexed by your problems with the converter(inadequate gas supply) on your gas conversion.

I have been using the very same converter on all my conversion over the past 15 years and have never encountered this problem.

This converter can supply more gas than this engine can ever consume under any conditions on my dyno,EG WOT,max TORQUE, max BHP.I have dyno tuned a 454 high performance engine on gas and even that could not out run that converter at 6000 RPM consuming 800 CFM.

There definitely should be no need to fit two converters to this engine.It seems to me that there is not enough depression sign being sent to the converter.

Could I ask what size veturi you are using and what depression you record under full load.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 31 December, 2004 - 06:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert.
No self leveling.picture of the rat trap, 5"to play!
clever by half.
" m/c diferent bores of course.

rat trap
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 200
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 31 December, 2004 - 07:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert.
I like to put my cars back to there original self without to many alterations that cannot be with the one vaporizer set up.
Let me try to explain!
Regarding the lpg set up in a perfect world the fitting of one vaporizor may work but only with a mixer on each carb this i did not want to do as to the alterations of the inlet tract etc.
And the fitting of a larger vaporizor.
I agree there may be a jet issue but as they are ok on both cars i will leave alone for the present.
I would like to see your set up just for interest.

Tank LED level indicator and change over on the r/h dash below dash panel may not show on pix.[good test pix] Led = change over
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, 31 December, 2004 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,
If you are not using any type of venturi you cannot possible expect this system to work correctly and will produce exactly the problems you have encountered.

The veturi is an indispensable part of this type of system ,without it the converter has no means of sensing engine load or air speed.This system must have a depression signal to the converter,without it it will no provide correct cruise mixture or full load mixture enrichment,which is exactly what caused you to need two converters.

It must be remembered the gas vapour is not pressure feed to the engine from the converter(except when starting),it is depression signal that allows gas to flow.

Fitting a "jet" into the air induction where you have is of no use,this is ported vacuum only.
The reason it improved when you moved it and changed the shape of it is because it is picking up some depression from the carby venturi, this is nowhere near good enough.

Depression testing on the dyno would show this up instantlythat is why I asked what signal depression you were recording at full power WOT.

The fitting of venturi to the original air induction causes less "alteration" than your "jet" fitting as they fit inside the air ducting and cant be seen.

Have you checked your cruise and full load WOT mixtures on a dyno,power output should be within 2KW of petrol.

Patrick could you tell me do you have to sit an examination to be qualified or be licenced to instal LPG in the UK and is there a controlling body that sets standards for installation.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 206
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 01 January, 2005 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert,Yes there is a strick instalation testing and inspection,LPGA code of practice 11.
My instalation passed all the required checks with flying colors.
I was able to explain the simple way the delivery set up was made within the inlet with a copy of the one for the next system,that was the SS11.
Note before you may say about the SS1 low pressure pipe clips,the pix was taken before the final finish without the clips now fitted..
One more little mod before the tow bar is the graphic equelizer.Pix next time

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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 207
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 01 January, 2005 - 03:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert. Forgot to wish you all a happy 2005.
Looks and sounds as you are all having great times from the emails.
Regarding the single vaporizor set up i will look into doing one with the mixers next time,i would be grateful if you could put a pix up on the carb set up with the linkage etc.
Thanks.
I like to investigate all points.
I did away with the 8 track many years ago and fitted the equalizer in its place.
graphic equalizer
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 212
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 08 January, 2005 - 08:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert, speed + safety.
Light original RR engine not cast iron block.
Next, twin turbo 500Bhp Top secret of course.
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, 08 January, 2005 - 09:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,
Sounds great,have you performed all the mods to date yourself.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 215
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 - 04:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert on your LPG conversions where do you position the LPG filler on the car.
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 145
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,
The gas filler is fitted inside the petrol filler door below the petrol filler cap,out of sight and out of harms way. Our regulations require the filler to be outside the boot and above a certain height from the ground and protected from impact.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 216
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 - 05:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert. Thanks for the info.
I have mine the same but with the tank gauge and fittings vented under the filler.
Other instalations i have seen on RR have been on the outside of the rear body of the cars,something i cannot eccept.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 217
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 - 09:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This is my set up is the conection the same as the type you use for filling.
Just spotted some rust or is it the copper grease will have alook at that!These cameras don't miss much.
Lpg filler
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 146
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 - 09:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick
Your fitting appears to be quite a bit smaller than ours,it also appears to have an internal thread where as ours is external.
You asked a couple of posts ago about our linkage set up, this is all as per original.
We encourage owners to start on L.P.G therefore we use a small alloy strip to hold the choke off which can easily be moved if it were to become necessary to start on petrol,and to run on petrol every now and again but only when the engine is up to temperature.
In this climate even in winter they start instantly and idle as if they were already running at normal temperature, since L.P.G doe's not need enrichment for cold starting, only a few more revs to overcome internal friction.

Some people ask can you tell when its running on gas,and I tell them yes you probably will notice it because it will run a lot smoother on gas!
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 218
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 13 January, 2005 - 05:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert, This is the continental touring adaptor that screws in the threaded part of the filler.
Maybe you have similar.
As you have total start up on LPG i take it that you have a auto lube system for the valve guides and top piston rings.
As i start up on petrol with two stroke mix and the accasional short running on petrol on a long runs i hope that will be ok,time will tell.
The engine also runs smoother on Lpg SS1 SS2.
Note the air vent gap in the lower filler.
second pix of the tank conections and venting pipes to the filler vent.
filler adaptor lpg

tank lpg.
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John Dare
Prolific User
Username: jgdare

Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, 13 January, 2005 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This all sounds too hard and unduly fiddlesome to me, perhaps even somewhat pointless from a operational/cost aspect. Firsty, there is the installation cost, then the ever increasing rate of tax upon lpg, forecasting that within a few years our own Federal govt. (Australian) will, by stealth, have increased excise on lpg to equal that of petrol. I hope (and may even write to urge) other major western governments to do likewise, for I dont see why some freeloading motorists and assorted cheeseparers should effectively continue to enjoy a subsidised ride at the expense of others.
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Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, 13 January, 2005 - 02:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I beg to differ with you John.
The only ones having a 'free ride' are the petrol companies. LPG was originally a waste product and it is grossly overpriced as it is and so is petrol. I think it's about time ours and other governments exploded the myth of the oil drying up. It certainly won't in our lifetime and probably not in our grandchildrens' either. It's just a story put out by the oil cartels to artificially hike up the price. It is singly a major factor why our cost of living is so high. If the cost of transport goes up, so everything else follows. I think Australia should abandon it's price parity as we have plenty of our own reserves. I'm sure you are right when you say that the government/s will increase the price of LPG to equal petrol eventually. They did with diesel fuel which used to be half the price of petrol, but if we can keep our running costs down there is a far greater chance of preserving ours and other classic marques for posterity.
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 147
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, 13 January, 2005 - 09:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,

We do fit he auto vac lube system because people seem to expect it but frankly I am not convinced of its effectiveness and I am not really in favour of introducing more oil into the comp chamber.

I think there may well be enough oil floating around the top of the engine already causing carbon build up problems and lowering the octane of the fuel.

My workshop vehicle a Mitsubishi 4x4 has traveled over 250K since we fitted LPG in 1989 without any auto lube and is still going very well and records very low cyl leak down pressures.

But as they say,the customer is always right.

In the photo is that a mild steel tank you are using?
Is it possible to see the UK code of practice on the internet(LPG)?
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Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, 13 January, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Rob,
That's interesting in what you mention about the auto vac. Iv'e been putting Flashlube into my Spur as a lead replacement option and I generally use Shell optimax or some other higher octane fuel, but on my Ford I run exclusively on LPG and have had no problems for the past seven years so you make a valid point. Is this Flashlube just another 'snakeoil' or do you think I should continue using it?
By the way, my Rolls is going well since you and Glenn attended to it.
Many Thanks,
Rob
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 221
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 14 January, 2005 - 07:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert C,To send the text on the code of practice is a no go,just like the spring debate etc when i tried,maybe in the next ten years with this contration!

The lpg tank is made of mild steel and is able to withstand great impacts.
It has as you may well know a number of safty devises to prevent the escape of lpg should a pipe be severed.
In the event of a fire the unit has a pressure relief valve controling pressure from the tank so the tank will not rupture.
Far more safer than the petrol tank.
Do you make and fit a trimmed tank cover on the ones you have.

Regarding the oil lube your comments on inlet valve lube by leak past is an interesting point however so far my seals and leak past seem ok,so the phosphur bronse guides must be running dry with out some sort of lube with lpg.

Robert W,Interesting useing flashlube as a lead replacement alternative as i thought it was for lubrication of the valve guides etc.

I have used the Shell Optimax fuel 98 octane U/L in some of my older cars running still with the cast iron valve seats with still no probs it cannot be the memory effect on one car as the seats were reground at the start of U/L to see if valve resession would take place about 30,000 to date with no resession.

Am i correct in stateing that the USA have run U/L for many years with cast iron heads and valve seats.

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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 366
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 14 January, 2005 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

An added incentive to convert to LPG will be the inevitable legislated introduction of petrol with increasing alcohol content to placate the Australian farming lobby. The reduced energy content of this type of fuel results in significant increases in fuel consumption as well as the well-known problems of fuel system blockages/fuel pump diaphragms/carburettor seal failures in cars manufactured before the introduction of ethanol blended petrol.

In my opinion, conversion to LPG notwithstanding parity pricing with petrol will be a viable alternative purely on the grounds of fuel consumption and reduced maintenance costs.
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Robert Wort
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Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, 14 January, 2005 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Crikey David. Is that true about the alcohol content? The government really is trying to get our cars off the road aren't they? I don't suppose dropping a block of soluble lead in the tank would help would it? (I'm kidding of course! Just thought I'd upset the environmentalists).
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 224
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 14 January, 2005 - 05:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert w.
Just to add a few thoughts on the RR running on u/l.
As the Shadows have alloy heads with valve inserts fitted the running on u/leaded is ok with them the only ajustment usally is the ignition timing.
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Robert Wort
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Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, 14 January, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick, 'tis good to know that u/l fuel is ok by itself.
John,
The reference to lead infusion was a joke. I have a twisted sense of humour and I couldn't resist it.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 226
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 15 January, 2005 - 06:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now the setup has been seen by all I have returned the boot to its tidy self with the trimed cover over the tank.
Still plenty of trunk space pix enclosed.

Soon i will take the tank out to do some mods on the crossmember and boot floor mounting points +the rubber mounts.
Tank cover + space
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David Gore
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Username: david_gore

Post Number: 368
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 15 January, 2005 - 08:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert, rest assured ethanol blended petrol is inevitable in Australia - it is already mandated in certain parts of the USA ostensibly for environmental reasons but it also benefits some very vocal self-interested lobby groups. I have no doubt our Government will come under intense pressure from farmers and ethanol producers to legislate for a similar situation here and I cannot believe the technical disadvantages involved will prevail over the political considerations.

With regard to the safety aspects of LPG-fuelled vehicles in comparison to conventional vehicles in accident situations; it is my understanding that LPG vehicles are less prone to incineration than conventional vehicles. As a matter of interest, there is at least one accident a month on the Pacific Highway in my area of the Mid-North Coast of NSW where a vehicle catches fire as a consequence of spilt fuel - if a truck is involved; the crash almost inevitably results in fatalities if the occupants are trapped in the car. It is very rare for the fire to involve an LPG-fuelled car despite the relatively large numbers of these cars on the highway [NSW LPG cars have a special tag on the number plates which makes them easy to recognise]. One look in the Police holding yards will confirm this. There is a strong case for the adoption of uniform vehicle inspection standards across the Australian states; I am appalled at the mechanical condition of a high proportion of interstate registered vehicles that visit our area - one banana growing state is particularly prominent on the registration plates.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 229
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 15 January, 2005 - 09:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David regarding the special tag for the easy recognition of Lpg use.
I have wondered why it is not a requirement in the UK,maybe it is because the safty testing here has proved it is far safer than the petrol in accidents,i have yet to hear of any fatalities with Lpg vehicles.
There have been accidents with folk filling up from household gas i am told.
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Robert Wort
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Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, 15 January, 2005 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David,
When ethanol starts becoming the norm, I should imagine that fuel filter replacements will be more of an important issue than ever as it has an effect of cleaning any residue from the tank and the pipes. Of course, replacing the fuel filters is important at any time but once it has become established, we will adapt to ethanol just as we have to unleaded. I can remember the panic when we first heard of the withdrawal of leaded fuels. We survived that. No doubt we will survive this.
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William H. Trovinger II
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Username: bill_trovinger

Post Number: 185
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Sunday, 16 January, 2005 - 02:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David is correct, here in SE Wisconsin 10% ethanol was mandated in 1995. The rest of the state was exempt as they have clean air and we are too close to Chicago. They claimed that this was being done to help the air quality; claim was a 10% reduction in emissions. Truth of the matter is my cars all saw a 18.5 to 22.67% drop in fuel economy. It also caused a two part increase in fuel costs. One caused by the increase refining cost. While the second increase caused by the reduction in refinery capacity, as the plants now have to divide production for all the different formulas. If my memory is working (too cold here) we (US) has over 20 different formulas mandated in use.

The only real beneficiary of this program (at least in my eyes) has been the one who lobbied so hard for it ADM, Inc.

Best regards, from the frozen Northland (Ė5 F)

Bill
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 148
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, 16 January, 2005 - 07:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for trying with the code of practice anyway,at least you can get a picture up which is more than I have been able to do to date.

I have been in touch with the British Institute of the Motor Industry of which I am a member, and they are sending me a copy.

My interest is only a technical one, to compare regs and standards.

In regard to the valve guide lube comment,what I meant by "oil floating around" was not so much leakage down the guides as oil mist coming through the crankcase ventilation system and oil pumped up passed rings and left on the cylinder walls.

A boot cover is not part of our LPG conversion, we leave that to the owner,but I must say I have not see one as neatly done as yours.
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Patrick Lockyer.
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Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 236
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 17 January, 2005 - 05:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert, don't give up trying the picture proccess David Gore will help im sure!
I find some pictures explain better than words.
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Robert Chapman
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Username: shadow

Post Number: 150
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 - 07:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick.
In your post of 8-1-2005 in answer to my question you replied "Safety and Speed".

I was wondering what aspect of the carby and brake mods were responsible for these gains.

Has the removal of the choke housing resulted in a power increase?

Are they the original carby's?

What besides the bouble master cylinder system have you altered about the brakes?

Are they different rear discs and calipers?
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 242
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 09:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert.
For the safety,first 16" wheels larger discs calipers shocks springs etc.

For the speed and sound of pure delight,carbs camshaft electronic ignition fixed compression ratio increased sorry.
ported and larger valves etc.
BHP sufficent for now.

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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 151
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 07:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,
These are some serious mods you have performed here!
You have me both intrigued and I must confess slightly jealous.
Pray tell,how doe's it perform.
What is the difference in the carby's ,are they larger choke?
What size inlet valves have you used?
How have you increased the theoretical (sorry) comp ratio and by how much?
What are the new cam event figures?
Doe's this engine produce more bhp than a Turbo R.
And the most important question, how much bhp and torque can you get out of it now and at what rpm's.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 245
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 22 January, 2005 - 05:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The last mod for the interested folk who need a two bar for whatever reason.
This i made quickly from what i can remember with the only two holes drilled behind the bumper and out of sight.
If i am correct the only other hole drilled was in the boot floor.
The other two holes were all there with gromets. one for the electrics and one for the under floor bracket.
The two square spacers have internal spacers so the valance is not damaged.

tow barbelow boot floor
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Robert Chapman
Grand Master
Username: shadow

Post Number: 154
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, 22 January, 2005 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nice job Patrick , but what about the engine mod's?. Please tell us the details and a description of performance.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 286
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 02 February, 2005 - 04:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert You have a legal person in your country who will do you or anyone no good at all.
Mods in your country should not be done while you have someone like
him around.
He should be banned from this forum forthwith.
Stick by the factory info and cover up with cotton wool.
What more can i say plenty.
Do not carry out work for him he cannot do the work himself so if everybody sticks together on this may be he will sell his car!
Can we vote him off the forum?
or maybe i have had enough.
PL.

(Message edited by david_gore on February 03, 2005)
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Richard Treacy
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Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 546
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 03 February, 2005 - 05:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ah. ADR 27a. Air pumps. Sick motors. Now that takes me back to my school days when Merc 280Es were rendered Skoda performance. Quite an industry flourished in Melbourne to remove the anti-polution bits as a result.

Oh, and if you visit your motor registry, they will issue you with a list of approved mods for individuals to implement without further approval needed, for example the +/-1" rule on wheel width and diameter, and changes in engine capacity (+10%; sadly no mention of kilowatt output). Other changes may be signed off by their own engineers, not by any certifying engineer. A certifying engineer can make an application, but if she misrepresents the work she can take the rap later as you would expect.

I know that Mr I Must Have The Last Word If It Kills Me JD will sign off this thread with a four page repetition of his assumptions. Just look at all the threads on the board killed off in that manner.

Too much noise here.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 547
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 03 February, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I thought this was about safety, suitability and legality of modification, not who to sue next.

Flying in the face of dire manufacturers' warnings, a certain individual has sworn catagorically that DOT4 will not harm your Silver Shadow series hydraulic pumps. Who takes the rap if that assertion is incorrect ?

As for the top speed of a Turbo, you had better believe it. Later cars have no speed limiter and a 2.28:1 final drive. Top speed is determined by gearing given the high power-to-wind_drag ratio, and by how much safe road distance you have to achieve it. The speed just winds higher and higher with ease. If a Shadow is safe to 110MPH (as it is, and will do more), then a Turbo R is safer at far higher speeds. ABS and W-rated tyres are essential. As for conditions, a decent bash requires perfect conditions: no traffic, clear conditions, straight flat treelined motorway, and no wind. Any tailwind can change quickly to sidewind, and that could become tricky at speed. It can suddenly hit you coming out from a cutting. Downhill is a no-no too.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 397
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 05 February, 2005 - 08:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This thread has served its purpose and also has become a time-consuming download.

I have closed the thread for further posting.