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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 956
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 12:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Spot lamps, driving lamps, fog lamps and rear red fog lamp. All easy stuff just bolt the things on any where you like don't show white lights to the rear and don't show red to front ( or those stupid illegal blue lights. Because of the load of halogen spot lights etc a 20 amp 4 pin relay is needed and a fuse. Two lamps say 60w each is 120w total that's 10 amp load allowing for voltage surge because the filaments are cold and have less resistance than when hot, a 15 amp fuse is the jobbie. The fuse should be fitted as close as possible to the point where the power supply comes from. Best place is the fuse board. Which is absolutely the best car fuse board I have seen.

The worse I have seen was on Lancia Gamma. The connectors inside were made from rusty steel, Lancia used ready rusted steel because they were trying to make a rat rod.
I had the misfortune to spend 6 hours trying to work out th wiring and fit a proper fuse box with brass connectors. The fuse box I used was from a scrap Volvo because it had lots of fuses, good quality and it cost 1.

A scrap yard is also a good place to get the various correctly coloured wire. Take a bit of time and unplug things thus obtaining wires with a factory crimped connector. Also under carpets some cars have the loom flat instead of round so it does not bulge the carpet up a bit. Or just take 1 min and jus cut the wires with secateurs. The bone yard charged again 1. Which goes in the tea money for the lads.

A tip when dealing with car breakers. Car breakers are not a bunch of idiots who know nothing about cars. They can be married with kids a mortgage etc. So utmost politeness. Alls ask first don't rip up good bits just because you want a used water gauge. I saw one guy prise the dash board out of an XJ6. The walnut was as new and worth a few sheckles. After the moron had finished it was fire wood. The moron paid 5 for the water gauge. I told the yard guy ( who is a member of the local chamber of commerce and on the local police authority ) what had just happened and he said he is going to a young lad to take bits off for customers because of the cost. It's saves money paying someone to do the job. It would have been cheaper to give the moron a brand new gauge in a box.

The lamps mentioned are all straight forward except lamps that are in an illegal position must have separate switches because if the KC 100w day lighters come on with the head lights the car will fail the mot apart from that bust a leg and do what you like. Fortunately RRs don't have roof gutters so one can not fit a roof rack plastered in Halfords finest cheapo crap spot lamps.

But of course everybody knows all of the above.

However since 2011 all new cars in the UK and Europe have to have daylight running lamps.
This is not a new idea, both Saab and Volvo did this years ago. The Swedish system was white at the front 21w. Can't remember it the rear red ones were used. In day 21w if the side lights are turned on he 21w goes off and the 5w is used. The bulb is a stop/tail bulb behind a white side lens. The day time lights are supplied with electricity from the ignition. All nice and simple and obvious.

Day time lights are in today's traffic condition a jolly good idea. Only front ones are fitted because a vehicle going away from you isn't a danger, seeing the rear of a car isn't dangerous unless it's going back wards!!!!

There is a plethora of day time lamps available at car bits shops. Incandescent ones are available, but the LEDs ones are the ones to go for. 50,000 hours and they sip electricity. Still need a relay though. 20 amp 5 pin. The prices range from 10 to 100 and more.

Some are strip LEDs that are self adhesive and bendy to fit around existing head lamps like angle eyes or Audi upside down eye brows. What ever you want. They cost 6 each. Probably made in China by 10 year slaves in a sweat shop.
All shapes and sizes.

But of course none of this is suitable for a Rolls-Royce because the finished job will look awful well a truly awful. And I go especially out of my way not to make a car look like an explosion in a car accessory boutique. Not even a slight bang. It's so naff. I often see cars wher the owner wants to do something to make the car their car and the feeling is a natural. The worst case iI saw was a Ford Escort. The owner must have discovered that the Ford Blue Oval badge was cheap and self adhesive. Because he had fitted no less than 3 to the boot lid plus an executive sticker. Yes mate I now know as if I didn't that the car was a Ford but thanks for reminding me 4 times and maybe the front needs more ovals, every one knows more is better and executive means driver has a big marriage furniture. A plus point is that the car must be worth more than an Escort without extra badges, I reckon at least another 500. This guy polishes turds for a living.

The best way for a Shadow is quite simple and 20 cost. This would work quite well on other vehicles as well.

The obvious way is to put 21w incadesence bulbs in the side lights but the heat might melt the plastic lens. Lens are best made from glass like they used to, last for ever and polish up nice. Also 21w is a high way infraction and one must respect the authorita because Eric Cartman will set the dog and Beth on you and fail the Mot because the light is too bright and the lens have melted and dribbled down the front of the car.

The solution is to fit and LED cluster bulb which is available in white at a cost of 7.50 each. These are much much cooler and won't melt the lens. LEDs have got cheaper but remember the postage. Which is a bit of a rip off because the bulbs are small and not heavy and could go normal post for 1.50 the pair. I was going too say the bulbs were light ( not heavy ) but we already know they are light.

The exsisting light fitting is for a single filament so some "adjustments" will be needed to fit the bulb. Bearing in mind that 50,000 hours is one hell of a long drive so once fitted the light will never have to be touched. How I don't know till I have inspected the exsisting bits. Tomorrow I shall checked them out. And report back on this thread.

The actuall wiring and circuit.

Because of the low amps ( less than 1/2 at a guess for both the 21w (42w) side of the bulbs the wire gauge used can be quite thin and easy to hide. The 5w side runs off the exsisting wiring.

The 21w must go out when the sides are turn on.

Using a 5 pin relay the 21w side is connected across the normally closed points of the relay. When the ignition is turned on the electrickery, goes across the normally closed points and the 21w side lights up. A feed from the side lights is connected to the relay coil and the other side of the coil to earth or negative. So when the side lights are turned the relay is energised and the points go from normally closed to open and the 21w goes out and the sides come on because one has turned them on because it's getting dark. Simples.

A supply for the 21w will be needed and a tap into the side lights. The side lights has red wiring. Best way locate side light fuse on fuse board. Remove fuse turn on side lights and one of the fuse terminal will be live and the other dead. Solder to the end on the fuse a bit of red wire, this can be thin because the relay coil load is about 20mA. Which is very low and a fuse wire of that size would be about 0.0005" diameter. Or make a better job by soldering a male spade to the fuse cap so that the wire can be plug in and it looks like RR did it. Then put the fuse back with the wire or spade on the dead side which will now be live with the side lights on. Or one can remove the fuse board and solder a red wire tail to the board which is made from thick high quality glass fibre, of course because glass fibre PCBs are far superior to the much cheaper and weaker brown stuff which one can snap with hand pressure which one can't with glass boards. What ever but it must be on the fused side of the red did lamp circuit. Or just bodge it and stuff the wire in between the fuse clip and fuse cap. It you car do what you feel is right.

The supply for the 21w side is the same except that this is connect to ignition live. The fuel pump fuse is the easiest. Because of the low amps the fuel pump fuse won't blow due to extra milliamperes.
This method is quick and and cheap and leaves car apart from the side light unit adjustment as RrR said it should be.

If LPG is fitted then the LPG control electrics will turn off the pumps so the supply used must be before the LPG fuel control switch.

Incidentally my LPG control has LPG , Petrol and LPG both off, which if someone's tries to start the car the car won't start when the Fuel selection switch is in the off position. An extra line of defence against those who like a free car. The switch is not obvious unless one is familiar with the system which is unlikely for a thieving git.

Custom cars.
Here we get adventurous.
One idea I seen used often is to light the road beneath and just in front of the car. This is simple fit halogen spot lamps under the front of car point down and forward a bit. The custom guys do the same at the back using halogen spots fitted with a red gel sheet which is normally used for very hot threate stages. The gel sheets are A3, A4 and A5 size and are easily cut with scissors. A4 is enough for two lamps and about 3 a sheet. But any glue used must be able to with stand halogen hot heat. One can boil water with halogen bulbs before the bulb blows. The lamps are not visible unless the observer crawls under the car. Because the fitting method is merely a bracket bolt to say the horn mountings on the L/H side and air cleaner on the R/H side no modes are need to the car. Spot lamps that are smaller in physical size, the wattage and price is just the same as regular spot lamps.

How to stop spot lamp wobble. First book an appointment with the doctor and the spot on your lamp that is wobbly. Don't be embarrassed the doctors has seen lots of wobbly spots.

Get a worm drive hose clips and cut the band and straighten the clip out. Fit the clip between the spot lamp and the car. One clip on top or under and one clip on the side on the side of the lamp. Then by tightening or loosening the clips the spot lamp can be accurately aimed and stop the wobble.

OR Go back to the doctor. Who will advise that one must not stick plasters there because when you fart the trump can't get out and one will burst. God save queen.

The U.K. Lighting regulations

The regulations say must not dazzle other road users which include pedestrians.

Any lights required by regulation must be correctly positioned as per the the regs, there is a drawing on the net somewhere on the net with the measurements.

Day time lamps on cars made before 2011 are not required to have day lamps. Day time lamps can be fitted to pre 2011 vehicles if the owner wishes to and day time lamps are not an Mot testable item but post 2011 cars are subject to day time lamps inspection.

Any light that is lit on a vehicle Is subject to the notice of a policeman or a Vehicle Inspectorate road side check. The policeman doesn't have to wear his hat or even be in uniform or even be on duty, as some seem to think, all he needs is his warrant card.

If the lamp is not lit then the lam is of no interest to the police or the VI. Unless the lamp could fall off or cause injury to passer bys or in the advent of an accident make injuries worst.

So any "illegally" fitted lighting must be on a separate switch and not used willy nilly. Remembering there are laws about using spot lamps and rear fog lamps according to the weather and time of day. It's all in the high way code book I believe.

When my 37 year old daughter was a child she used to inspect her self and if she found a blemish she would insist on a plaster. In the morning she would wake up with the plaster on her other leg or some where else. She got expensive in plasters.

God bless and good night time for tea and Jaffa cakes and off to the of nod, and tomorrow is another day guaranteed.

Hopefully the weather will be nice cause I need to chase the lawn mower around the garden, today was nice and we got most of the house spring cleaning done. Another day and we be finished apart from a trip to the tip, which is not a good idea on a Sunday because half of Bournemouth is spring cleaning and one just wastes fuel queuing.
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Bob Reynolds
Grand Master
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 382
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 16:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"The supply for the 21w side is the same except that this is connected to ignition live. The fuel pump fuse is the easiest."

The easiest but probably not the best!

Any fault on the new circuit will blow the fuse and cut the ignition, leaving you stranded in the middle of a busy junction in the pouring rain.

There are other ignition-controlled fuses which are less critical, like the gauge supply or the direction indicators or blower motor.

It's not a good idea to share the ignition fuse with anything else, unless you take it from the supply side of the fuse, through a separate (inline) fuse.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 958
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 11 April, 2016 - 08:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


Good point about the pump fuse and noted.

It's important that the wiring is done to a good standard and looks neat if one can find the mods. Maybe regular size wiring would be more suitable and it would match the exisisting wiring and therefore not obvious.

A 1" long fusible link would work in the 21w side, I said 15A but the LEDs don't use 15A probably 1 amp so if using the pump fuse then a 1 amp fusible link will blow immediately this no fire works, fuse wire would do, heat shrink the section any short and the fusible link pops fast, and the engine doesn't miss a beat.

I may do this to my car. I just didn't have time today due to family commitments to check out the side lamps. But tomorrow I am cleaning the bat cave so I pop the lens off for an inspection and measure up. I hope the bulb holder is the big size bayonet cap and not the smaller ones. I suspose 3 thin wires could be poked threw and soldered direct to the led cluster. If soldering is allowed. The makers probably soldered the cluster together, so the it's likely that it's ok. The cluster could then be wedged providing there is the room. Suck and see. A look costs nothing and 5 mins. A small hole to pass leads through is not obvious and easily returned to std. But preferred is a proper 2 contact arrangement. I have 2 contact bulb holders. May be use bits from one to do it properly. It's not a testable item. All easy stuff. Silicon sealer to keep the damp out. I did think of the accessory circuit but the 21w will be on whilst using the radio. Not a good idea. There is no problem with this installation if the worker takes care and patience.

It is only a car you know.

My jeep has dim dip. A relay puts the dip side of the head lamps in series thus dimming both dips. It works well but if the the sides are left on during the day the 21w will be out but the driver is going to forget to turn off the side lights at least once. The relay could be the same as the original relays for the correct look. Done right even a conkers do elephants judge is not going to find the mod. Unless you proudly show them. In any case stuff like this excepted by the pragmatic judge.

At pebble beach a Bentley got rear ended bad. The car won a prize because they could see how good the car was before being rear ended. Adds to the excitement of the event. Seriously over restored expensive cars. But that's the way USA does it.

My Honda lawn mower let me down again it does this every spring, it needs an hour TLC with my hammer. Start yer bastard. It will be the jet blocked with gum. Lost the choke to throttle rod a wire coat hanger wire fits. It's 35 years old, I have complained to Honda but got no reply. I still have petrol left from last year mowing. The recent rain storm has flattened the grass and blown my store of plastic guttering into next door garden. He's ok about it and will swap my guttering for his trampoline sides in my garden.

He has a BMW with angel eyes. I like the car and if I had any sense I should get the estate version and the jeep and Royce go to new homes and I whistle dixey whilst trousering maybe some money. 5 series 2.0 estate, good car.

I did think off selling the jeep whilst it looks good. Use the money on the Shadow to finish the car and fit a tow hitch and I am a happy man with cheaper insurance. The Royce uses less petrol than jeep as well.

The Jeep XJ is gradually getting a fan club and of course the nice ones are rare due to age and my survivor is basically a good reliable workhorse. But a buyer is bound to ask mpg and I have to say 11mpg around town. Gulp the buyers swallows hard and buys an aweful diesel version which blow up instead of using lots of fuel. The diesel version is a base model with no aircon etc.

The tow bracket for a Shadow is quite expensive. I only tow a trailer with a gross weight of 200kg so no trailer brakes. I should think that the bumper alone would withstand such a low force. But a piece of thick flat steel behind the bumper would make the bumper extra strong. The bolts for the tow hitch then go through the rear under bumper body bit to stout brackets bolted to the boot floor using a spreader plate on top of the floor under the carpet. The load path goes through the bumper through the the back plate to the boot floor supplemented by the bumper irons attached to a box section. Probably strong enough for GVW of 1000kg. The number plate lamps could be awkward so I would go led number bulbs bulbs.

Tow shop do Inox sprung loaded ball hitch covers.

Your comments are valid and helps a great deal in getting things just right.

It's only a car but it is a Rolls-Royce.

This is mod that enhances. A lot of mods don't and ruin a ar and a waste of time.

Tomorrow porridge for breakfast then eyes down and get stuck in. I take no prisoners.

At the moment my a Insurance is 70 for off road only insurance. To use on the road the insurancis 325 which is very reasonable fully comprehensive 150 excess including AA membership and legal expenses and hire car of same quality. It's cheap because they get about zero claims on Royces. All I need to do is phone up with my bank details and the insurance starts at mid day.

Start engine at 5 to 12. The clock strikes 12. Whelk spin Dracular up the road to some heat in the new tyres ( that's the Jeep money gone) But I have my trusted Shadow to swan around in.

I have also checked out the beauty ring on the wheel trims. A vynal print shop can print large black vynal washers with an accurate single coach line, sticky back plastic Blue Peter style. Could have a circle of tiny Union jacks or Royce Royce written in a circle. Stick them on using soapy water and squeegee with rubber whatsit. Trim excess and clear coat to protect the beauty Ring and fit to wheel trim. My beauty rings are home made and have bolts not clips also I am going to use black silicon to further hold ring and stop water getting impending and eating my expensive cut my on it beauty rings. If I thought about the printing I could have stuck the vynal straight on to the wheel trim, thus saving frigging hours of cutting large washers from 16swg steel.
The paint for the coach lines is actually Avon nail varnish. ( ding dong Avon calling)Dave Gore suggested a dark red like imperial red. Which is a very good choice Rosso Red pops to much. I have tape which the narrow middle bit can be pulled off. 2 bottles of nail varnish are 4. The print guy said he can dead match the colour.

My leather is grey. There will be enough varnish left to pipe the seats in imperial. Looks of dust sheets and masking. Patience and Jaffa cakes. Use low tack tape but check for bleeding under tape, I have the grey in leather piant in my little stores should I cock it up. Grey felt tip pens !! I have done the leather feeding and it's supple. A mark on the rear door trim disappeared overnight. Maguires leather stuff. Chelsea football boot dubbin cheap and quick . 1.50 a tin can't go wrong. I leave the application clothes under the front seats for extra leather smell. Jeep is beige or biscuit and goes well with the dark green the Jeep scrubbed up nice and the leather has a nice I have been farted on and worse look. Leather survives accidents and I think accidents feed the leather, that's my excuse sorted.
Also I decided my air con is low on the old R12 freon but a temp gauge say 4c. So that's one less job and money saved don't fix what isn't broke.

I have modified my scooter to fit in the boot. The battery is 24v so there is 12v available which is very handy. I need to make a special lead to connect up.

I have slagged off the Jeep something rotten but the truth is that the Jeep is better equipped and easy to drive providing one remembers it's not a Rally car. It says so in the hand book and I believe what they say. Recently a jack up Cherokee fell over going around a roundabout. I would like to lower my Jeep by 1". The engine is nice and quiet and smooth.

Day time lights have been accused of causing accidents because they are mistaken for motor bikes, this is rubbish because any white light is noted and avoided. The say it's a human rights issue. Cods wallop at its best. Idiots.

Good night sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite.
Jaffa cake time.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 926
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 13 April, 2016 - 01:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When I uprated/updated the headlamps on my Shadow 1 I did it by junking the original sealed beam units and replacing them with ordinary bulb type reflectors scavenged from a BMW of around the same era. Rather than mess about with standard bulbs I fitted 90/100 xenon ones which have passed the MOT every year since. I did the same for the fog lamps.

But when I dropped on a pair of driving lamps I decided to add a level of electrical safety to the circuitry. Taking the main power feed from the positive of the starter relay, I added a pair of inline fuses and 200 watt relays so as to not overtax the original wiring. So far everything has been hunky dory and I can illuminate the countryside for miles when I switch everything on at the same time. Whether the alternator could keep up with the demand is unknown ...
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 961
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 05:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have. Finished my day time lamps.


The front side lamps are big bayonet with in line pins.

I changed the small plastic disk with one contact to a clothing button with two holes.

Solder 1 " of wire.
Poker though holes
Bend ends of wire to form a contact solder.

The bulbs are 12 for two at Halfords UK. These are led 21/5W. White the pins are NOT offset and go straight in. The led almost touches the lens. So a normal stop tail would melt the lens.

Halfords do festoons and wee little ones.

Btw whilst chatting about electric terminals etc. We forgot the good old chocolate block. These are the best connectors of all.

Only use brass ones with cheese screws and solder 6 mm of wire. Petroleum jelly. Insert in hole and tighten.

Grow and stop sniggering.
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Mark Aldridge
Prolific User
Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 291
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 05:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have changed the sidelights on all of my cars to the equivalent of 21w LED's. (from ebay suppliers) . All cars have now been MOT tested and no questions asked!I merely switch on sidelights if DLR 's are desireable and I see no disadvantage of having tail lights on. I will not swap tail lights for LED's until "e" marked ones are available in the UK. Converting the interior lights to LED festoons is worthwhile also.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 962
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 07:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The average life of a car is 5000 hours of use. We all no our cars are superior so let's say 2000 hours.
The life of an led is 50,000 hrs.

So fit and forget.

The wiring to the led can be soldered to the bulb giving that extra level of reliabity.

The mot tester has no official knowledge of led and no device to check lumens. So the tester doesn't give a s**t.

It works so therefore it passes the mot.

Now my rear looks quite attractive.

One can do as one pleases because only post 2011 cars must have day lights. Pre 2011 no regulations except they must not fall off or dazzle including pedestrians.

I got 2 red 21W LEDs one for rear fog in reverse light. No rear bumper clutter.

And the other is going to fit to my disabled scooter on all the time when key in. Why bother with switches. At 1/2A it would take 14 days to flatten the battery.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 967
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 16 April, 2016 - 05:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For some reason that is unkown, and don't care so there!
The LED bulbs don't quite lock into place on the old bayonets.

So the bulbs are soldered to the wires. Then back filled with hot glue to seal, for 50,000 hours. I suspose in the year 2300 they might blow. I am hoping they last bit longer.

The LEDs are brilliant .

Also I am going to fit the rear fog lamp behind the number plate looking through a 1 inch clear space by removing a circle of the yellow bit on the drivers end of the number plate.

Also I said that led stop tails will upset the stop lamp warning light. This is what we find man.

BUT I AM SO STUPID BECAUSE IF THE LEDS LAST 50,000 Hours the warning system is unwanted it is simple to disable so that when the check button is pressed one still gets a full house for the TV screen warning lights.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 16 April, 2016 - 05:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


I find the stop lamp warning light a really useful addition, particularly these days when a lot of drivers tend to tailgate.

The stop lights could fail for other reasons e.g. a dropped connection. Why not just solder a resister in series. You keep the full functionality then.


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