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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 153
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 07:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"A Bentley is a poor man's Rolls Royce." This saying has been around for a long time and it annoys me but tells me that who ever came up with it was perhaps a known twit and or the village drunk. I have never known a poor man who could afford a Bentley and there are very many men who are quite well healed who own Bentleys.

What do you say to somebody when they utter such muck in your ear? The best I can come up with is this: " Yes I have heard this great saying before and thought about it and its clear to me that whoever came up with this saying knew absolutely nothing about Rolls Royce and definitely nothing about Bentley either. " Chaps any other suggestions?

Here is another saying "If you have to ask the price of a Rolls Royce you can't afford it". There must be some genetic gene pool somewhere that supplies the authors of these types of utter toss. Perhaps they were boys that fell too hard on their heads on the footpath during an after school fist fight.

Apart from the stupidity contained in the saying, it has had I believe an effect of totally warping the public perception of the marque.

In Australia, you will pay $25,000 AUD for a reasonable Shadow and a bit more if you want a real gem. You will also pay $25,000 AUD for a Ford Mustang. What is a Mustang? Its basically a Falcon (the lowest car on Fords ladder of class)
with a more sporty body.

I owned a 1969 Mustang Mach One painted Sl*T Red. It was a truly horrid car. It was neither fast nor comfortable and it handled just like a Falcon, ie like a bag of potatoes. I kid you not I could not wait to get rid of this car and I will never buy another one.

My point is is that it is these stupid glib sayings that have totally warped the public perception of RR/B to the point that a lot of Shadows find their way to the wreckers when with a bit of elbow grease and half a brain they could be kept going.

The other effect of these dopey sayings is that immediately you mention the word "Rolls Royce" people think you are rich when in fact you might be a responsible owner who has just maxed out his credit card to pay for the registration.

When I put a radiator or some other part into a workshop other than my own, or say even a alternator for overhaul, I never mention the word "Rolls Royce" because when you do you can actually see the dollar signs go ching! jump up in their eyes like an old fashioned cash register. I just say its off an old English car, just a piece of pommie junk I am restoring called an Austin.

On top of this I have a number of mates who are self made millionaires and I can tell you that each and every one of them was weaned on a pickle. One in particular has this nasty habit of when its his shout of taking me to some cheap dive of a smorgasborg restaurant where the food is yuk and the service is worse after previously I have taken him to a good restaurant and enjoyed good food and wine. I indeed introduced him to his now wife who one day no doubt will take him to the cleaners whereupon he will later want to sob upon my shoulder.

I enjoy it when he takes me to a cheap dive because the second we are out the door I jump on him and slap him into a headlock and when his head goes bright red I ask him why he is such a cheap son of a b*tch. Actually, I feel sorry for the man, because it appears his tightness is somehow hardwired into his brain and he just can't change. But he could could buy a new RR/B any day of the week and I quarantee you he certainly would be asking the price and no doubt getting up to all kinds of scallywag behaviour to reduce the asking price.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1247
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 09:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've never heard anyone say that a Bentley was a poor man's Rolls-Royce, but I have heard it said on more than one occasion that a Bentley was a stealth Rolls-Royce. This strikes me as having been true during the SY and SZ periods, at least. It seems that everyone in the world recognizes the Parthenon grille and Flying Lady from a mile away, but far, far fewer recognize the winged 'B' and the rounded grille.

I believe the comment regarding the cost of a Rolls-Royce has the implied context, "brand new," and/or "of recent vintage" as part of it. I certainly know that I could never even conceive of having enough money to buy a Rolls-Royce off of the showroom floor or ordered bespoke. As a result, and since these cars do tend to hold value for far, far longer than most of their compatriots, it seems entirely reasonable to believe that they're out of reach to "most people." Had I not purchased cars that both needed work to be brought back to being roadworthy I couldn't have afforded either.

Of course, with the first, I learned too late (and before I started to venture into doing my own work) that the saying, "The most expensive Rolls-Royce to own is a cheap Shadow," is quite true. Most of that is, of course, because of the cha-ching! factor that you mention. I, like you, do not mention that the parts I'm looking for are for a Rolls-Royce until/unless I've established a relationship with the supplier. Since a great many Shadow parts are of GM supply, taking those in and just getting a good parts guy to match them up with his mental database is often the quickest way to locally sourcing parts.

Brian
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 656
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 12:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There was a phrase in England back in the 1960s - "A Rover is a poor man's Rolls Royce". In those days, when the UK had a thriving motor industry, there was a distinct pecking order. RR were at the top, Jaguar and Rover were mid range luxury cars and Austin and Morris were the volume producers. This is a simplified analysis as there were in fact about 30 manufacturers of cars in the UK at that time. Jaguar always had a "sporty" image so the more sedate Rovers acquired the reputation of "the poor mans Rolls Royce". I have never heard the phrase using Bentley instead of Rover. Maybe Vladimir has remembered it incorrectly, or maybe it is the Australian version. I think Brian confirms the phrase is not used in the US.

Incidentally. The Rover P5B was a superb car (In my humble opinion). Most people preferred the coupe version but I liked the more dated look of the saloon.

Geoff
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.120.144
Posted on Thursday, 19 March, 2015 - 07:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Rolls-Royce rich man's Rover. The P5 and P5B are both good cars. The body was made by pressed steel and is of similar quality to RR shells, also made by pressed steel.

The coupe would have made a good Bentley.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 776
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 19 March, 2015 - 19:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I always preferred a Jag over the Rovers. Mind you; there's quite a bit of the cad in me!
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 159
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 20 March, 2015 - 02:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You lot are a bad influence on me. Now I am looking up prices of P5 Rovers. I like the large steering wheel and wonder if they are total mongrels to work on.

I prefer the ones with 4 headlights and the coupes look quite sharp. Now can anybody tell me why Humbers are so cheap. There are many about and they seem to get treated worse than cane toads on the market.

I thought they were in their day considered to be a luxury car. They are big cars. I think I need one of those too.

I have a half acre I can cover with cars and I see no reason not to. Living in the outback means I have no problem with the council as all they want is just over a grand a year rates for providing their invoice because they provide nothing else but they keep their distance.

Here is my theory. If you buy a classic car, eventually it will go up in value even if you don't register it and drive it daily. If you have a women your wallet will shake with paranoia and eventually the bank balance will go south and usually fast.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 738
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 23 November, 2015 - 07:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I meant to reply to Vladimir question about working on P5 Rovers.

Rust is a big P5 problem which had scrapped most UK cars. Body parts prices and trim are about the same as RR.

Mechanical stuff is cheaper. The brakes are merely OK. Front disks drum rear. Under the right hand front wing is a vacuum reservoir which gets pin holes and poor brakes result. Brass replacements or a fire extinguisher.

The automatic is clunky because its a borg warner box. The V8 is less smooth than the six. The six is not that much slower in the real world but cheaper to buy. The six is of RR quality. The V8 isn't.

The power steering box wears out. 300.

The rear suspension is leaf springs and front is torsion bar and works well for a bank managers car. It's certainly not a sports car but neat enough for the intended customers. On of which was the Queen.


Easy to work on.


So a good car to tour the UK in. Room enough to sleep in as well. UK police don't generally hassle car sleepers and its not illegal.
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David Towers
Experienced User
Username: xtriple

Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Thursday, 14 April, 2016 - 21:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I had a 'conversation' the other day with a builder working on a house over the way. He stated that the V12 in my car was useless. I told him it was a V8. 'Ah, so the baby engine then'
Hardly a baby at just sub 7 litres. I then got the classic ' poor mans Rolls Royce!'

I had never heard this before, and as the bloke was an obvious fool/tool/idiot I didn't respond other than with a laugh.

But it's annoyed me!

I know my car is 'really' a Rolls Royce but it's a Bentley through and through and I don't like it when people call it a RR (plenty do) but to call it a 'poor mans Rolls Royce' (however true that may now be!) is unfair and unjustified as well as untrue.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1161
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 14 April, 2016 - 23:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

Don't try to rationalise these peoples comments. He obviously has a massive "chip on his shoulder". A sad act I would say. Whenever I come across it I find the best course is a knowing smile and then to totally ignore the person. I think you responded well.

The last time I came across this phenomenon was at the Virgin Atlantic check in desk at Gatwick airport, when the service agent looked at my permanent residency card and said in a really grumpy voice "it doesn't look very permanent to me". A pointless comment that I am not remotely interested in analyzing.

Consign his comments to the dustbin of insignificance.

Geoff
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 173
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 13:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Not to worry. I had always been under the impression that the "old wealth" actually preferred the Bentley model as being the "less pretentious Rolls-Royce".
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1874
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 13:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I also find it interesting to hear anyone describe a Bentley as "the poor man's Rolls-Royce."

Like Christian, I have often heard references to things like "the stealth Rolls-Royce" or the "flies below the radar Rolls-Royce" in reference to a Bentley.

I doubt that there's a sentient being in the West (and many parts of the East, too) that doesn't know what a Rolls-Royce is. By contrast, Bentley often gets the, "What's that?," reaction. I seem to recall someone here, on rollsroyceforums.com, or perhaps both mentioning that a Bentley had been misconstrued as a Buick by some of the confused.

Brian
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Patrick Ryan
New User
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 15:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vlad.
Your comment below:
" Yes I have heard this great saying before and thought about it and its clear to me that whoever came up with this saying knew absolutely nothing about Rolls Royce and definitely nothing about Bentley either. "

I work for a major truck maker.
I know who comes up with all this rubbish.
We call them Marketing people.

I have a collection of some wonderful Tudor wrist watches, and I cop the same.
OHHHH a Tudor, the poor mans Rolex.
Sigh, I just walk away.

And you are right, most of them have know idea what they are marketing and assume their degrees allow them to market anything.

As we know cars are very different from trucks and they are very different from TV's for instance but one marketing guru can muck all of them up given the chance.
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Christian S. Hansen
Prolific User
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 174
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 15:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

P.S.
I might also add that as far back as Early Post War Era, the Bentley, more accurately the Bentley Model made by Rolls-Royce, was referred to as the "Sporty Rolls-Royce" in that it had two SU carbs whereas the RR only had a single carb. Likewise with the Derby Bentley's versus the small horsepower RR, such as the 20/25 and 25/30, and carried forward to the more recent era where the Bentley is equipped with a turbo, whereas the RR is not...definately "Sporty", eh?
For what it is worth, back when I got my first MkVI Bentley, virtually new, and younger in years that I was as a recent college grad, I actually did consider it to be a "poor man's Rolls-Royce" but only because that model is so simple and robust in its design, required maintenance, dual brakes (hydraulic over mechanical), dual points, and Bijur one-shot lube system, that over the 150,000 miles and ten years of daily service that I owned it, I was never stranded, virtually nothing broke nor needed extensive maintenance other than the expected "expendibles" such as tires, one brake servo reline, but no brake shoes, a valve job at 125,000 miles, and basically nothing else. My observation was that once you bought one, you did not have to spend a lot on it from that point on. Unfortunately that ability to run virtually forever with simple maintenance and lubrication was lost on the Marque after the Cloud I Series, and thus the moniker "poor man's" ceased to be an accurate characterization of the maintenance requirements. "Sporty" however definately survives, even if lost on most of the masses.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1590
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 15:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

MkVI Bentleys sold well immediately after the last war (you know the one in 1945) to the wool growers who reaped cash never seen before. The Ozzie psych reasoned that nobody knew what a Bentley was so questions were not likely to be asked! Nowadays it seems there is more demand for Bentleys than RRs!
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ChristopherCarnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 5.80.16.58
Posted on Friday, 15 April, 2016 - 18:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Still have I borne it with a patient shrug" Shylock, "Merchant of Venice".

The true story is of an owner of a thriving Yorkshire textile business who bought himself a new Bentley R Type. Later at the golf club, a friend asked him why he hadn't gone for the Rolls -Royce,as "he had the money".
The reply was if he had bought the R-R the work force would have come out on strike, but the Bentley had their approval, as the firm was obviously doing well and their jobs were secure.

(Message approved by david_gore)

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