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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 151
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Monday, 16 March, 2015 - 06:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I remember back in the late 70s walking next to this Silver Shadow in Perth Australia. It was parked at a restaurant. To me at that time is was mysterious and its value was so far out of my price range it was laughable.

It was the second time I had got this close to a Shadow. The first time was before I started my apprenticeship and I got a job on the east coast at an Italian garage where I was given the task of steam cleaning the engines of a next to new Shadow I and a Lamborghini Espada. Later, and I look back on the fact with total disbelief they gave me the task of removing a gearbox from a mint condition Maserati 3500 which had aftermarket air conditioning and weirdly I thought the gearbox came out through the inside of the car because the chassis rails would not allow it to be removed from the bottom of the car.

I can still remember, the mystique of the Shadow. In my earlier years I had this girlfriend who exclaimed when I was about 16 "who do you think you are !"
when I told her one day I would own a Rolls Royce.

But by the late 1970's I could still only lust over the Shadows I saw and only go up and look at them and dream. Well well well how things have changed. Now reasonable Shadows are going at low unreasonable prices if you consider that you have to pay $55,000 for something like a new KIA. The world has indeed turned hideous. The prices of good Spirit and Spurs being so low that you wonder if these cars are being offered without an engine or gearbox.

And then there is the Cloud debacle. Clouds 1,2,3 are rising in value and the prices attached to the dropheads are proof that the world is indeed quite insane. Every drop head started life as a 4 door car.(any nay sayers are invited to disagree) so if I wanted a drophead RR Cloud there is only one way to do it, purchase 4 door and decapitate. If Crewe did it then so can I but I will make certain the roof disappears below the sheet metal in front of the boot/trunk.

But I digress, it was the unobtainability of the Shadow in my earlier years that fueled my love for RR/B today, the sheer fact that those cars were beyond me and that I knew absolutely nothing about them apart from the fact they looked the part and had four wheels and a silver lady in a negligee on the radiator.
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Mark Aldridge
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Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 194
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, 16 March, 2015 - 07:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir, I remember being at the London motorshow at about 10 year old with my Grandfather,a farmer,sitting on the edge of the Rolls Royce stand eating our lunch whilst admiring the Shadow in the late 1960's The attendant duly asked us to move off the stand and seemed stunned when my grandfather agreed the stand edge was uncomfortable and we should continue our generous farmhouse picnic in the comfort of the Shadow ! Needles to say this was refused! This however sparked the dream of owning a Shadow which I bought some 30 years later. S1, Spirit , Mulsanne have followed since, but I still have the Shadow.
Mark
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 654
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 16 March, 2015 - 12:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I dream of having a collection of RR cars like Mark has. My current situation prevents me from doing so, so I have to be satisfied with the Shadow. I move around a lot so the logistics of transporting more than one classic would make things difficult and expensive. When I've settled down (I'm 62 for Christ's sake) I intend to buy a Cloud and maybe a Mk VI. Well, one can dream.

Geoff.
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Benoit Leus
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Username: benoitleus

Post Number: 192
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 16 March, 2015 - 20:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My first encounter (at least that I remember)with a Silver Shadow was in the late 70's.
I must have been 10 years old and a boy my age was picked up every day in a dark green Series 1.
I remember we were all quite impressed, even one of my best friends, whose father had a chauffeur-driven Daimler Double Six and whose mother drove an XJS.
It certainly made my father's Citroen CX look like a cheap little runabout.

Benoit
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 774
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, 16 March, 2015 - 20:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Frankly my first response to seeing the Shadow was "It's a bloody Ford Cortina. Why do that?". After the previous models that relatively boxy bodywork left me quite cold. Over the decades it's crept up on me (much like old age) and I quite like it now. Certainly enough to buy one.
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Bob UK
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Posted From: 94.197.120.211
Posted on Tuesday, 17 March, 2015 - 10:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Funny that Jan but my first thought of the spirit was Ford Granada.

The spirit has a heavy look. Where as to me the Shadow has a lighter look.

My very first experience of the shadow was 1969 dynamo problem.
I was forbidden from moving the car.
I got a job working for a shopfitting co. They did. Harrods and many others. With that sort of client only a RR is good enough. I chose the spec of one of the cars. Shadow 2 black with black leather and dark walnut burr. when I ordered it the salesman at HR OWEN Suggested a LWB Silver Wraith. So I ordered it. No division because the top boss drives it.

The boss loved it and his clients liked the extra rear room. The boss said the black made the car look like it was a royal car.

The dynamo worked the same as my BSA A10 motorbike. F D Earth etc.

I think the Shadow is about the best car RR have made. Every thing comes to pieces and a diyer can repair. The amount of electronics that have been added to later stuff is worrying because despite the reliability as electronics age they fail, its a fact. My jeep is 22 years old and the electronics are on borrowed time.
However the younger mechanics are very electronically savvy.

Also there's a computer chip circuit call a Raspberry Pi. 50 each. One of these has enough clout to run the whole car.

School kids get pii and build robots and PCs. So to get a pi to work say the climate control Will work.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3185
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 17 March, 2015 - 23:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


quote:

consider that you have to pay $55,000 for something like a new KIA.



The trouble is when some owners expect to maintain a Silver Shadow on the budget of a cheap car like a Kia. The closest to a Silver Shadow in today's market is a Mulsanne at $700k-$1,100k, and you would expect to pay at least $20k to maintain it each year. A Phantom at well over a million rubs it in. Then we hear of how to save $10 on a thermostat. Later the complaint comes that the motor has cooked by overheating with a bill of over 25k for a humble SY.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 152
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 06:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When I first saw a RR Shadow I didn't think it looked like any other car, but given that was a long time ago perhaps I did but have forgotten it but I really don't think I thought it looked like any other make and certainly not a Cortina or a Granada.

When I got a closer look at the Shadow later on the first thing that struck me were the gaps on the bonnet/hood, doors and boot/trunk. They appeared much narrower and more perfect than on any luxury American car.

The gaps on my 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood annoy me to this day to the point that I try not to have eye contact with those gaps. On the Camargue where the glove box front meets the rest of the dash, the glove box front wood does not run in line with the adjacent dash wood and this severely annoys me because I expect perfection. I am certain nobody else notices this.

I felt good when I first grabbed hold of the Silver Shadow driver's side door handle. It felt perfect. Then upon opening the door I noticed the front seats. No other car manufactures makes seats like that. The way the leather sits, is to me simply superb.

I think a great deal of thought went into those seats both front and rear. The front seat on a Lincoln Mark Three I find plain downright ugly and when I buy one something is going to happen to that front seat, its bland and slab and not in keeping with the class of the car at all. In Stalinist times, had the Mark 3 been made in the Soviet Union, the interior seat designer would have been put against the wall and shot, then again he might have been shot anyway.

I immediately noticed the first time that I sat in a Shadow that the seating position for the driver taking into account what the driver could see from that position, was spot on and felt good. Also, just the feel of the light switch made one feel good as did the very light feel of the electronic gear selector.

I also liked the fact that the dash board did not contain a pile of unnecessary clutter and that no idiotic gimmickry was present. What was essential was there and what was not essential was not there. I once had a 1983 Seven Series BMW. When it was new, you could adjust the front head lights from the drivers seat. The setup was from memory, made possible by vacuum along plastic tubes and other pieces of plastic. Needless to say after 17 years in Australia this brilliant setup just fell apart and finally presented itself as a tacky gimmick which detracted from the quality of the car. It put a sour grape in my mouth as to BMWs aspirations to hold itself up as a luxury car manufacturers especially taking into account the large amount of loot needed to purchase this marque new. They say that it takes years to gain respect and one second to lose it.


In short I think a lot of thought went into the Shadow and I see it as strange but also total good luck for me that today they are so undervalued. No doubt before I croak it there will be about 20 of these Shadows in my garage causing certain people to wonder if I had indeed gone mad while breathing.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 655
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 06:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir

Agreed - especially regards lack of gimmickry. However, the one thing the SY1 very definitely should have is an engine temperature gauge. I don't know what the engineers were thinking. The provision of one is definitely on my "todo" list. I have already bought a gauge. It is the smaller 1 1/2" type. I'm thinking of fitting it in place of the now redundant radio balance switch. It occurs to me I could fit it just below the radio along with an oil pressure gauge, to give symmetry to the layout. I'm not sure yet. The latter option would require boring two holes in the walnut which I don't much fancy.

Geoff
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 154
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 07:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes Geoff I agree, a temp guage (gage) is very useful but where to put it? Boring through the walnut would be mentally painful.

I think what I will do with the Camargue is set up a system that does not have a guage at all but sets off a buzzer when a worrying temperature has been reached.

That gets rid of two problems. The first being given the amount of lunatics driving these days and a need to avoid accidents, it is a pain to have to watch the speedo to avoid the ever increasing and wanton revenue grab by western governments world wide via the speeding fines.

The second you take your eyes off the road could be the second you needed to avoid a serious accident. So with the buzzer you have no need to be looking at yet another guage.

Secondly, with the buzzer you don't have to locate the guage anywhere on the dash and neither do you have to bore through the walnut dash.

I say ditto for oil temp and charging rate. The Camargue has a clock, and outside temperature guage (totally useless in Australia unless you live in Tasmania or the Snowy mountains) and an ammeter. Now why? If your alternator/generator is not charging no serious damage will be done, but if your engine temperature goes too high or oil pressure goes too low, your wallet is sure to cry yelps of pain and yet they are not in the Camargue.

I can slice the top off a Cloud daily but I could never bring myself to put a hole saw through the walnut dash of a Camargue or a Shadow, so its buzzers for me.
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Chris Browne
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Username: chrisb

Post Number: 190
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 08:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,
I think that you may find that your Camargue already has a factory fitted engine overheat buzzer as standard - the Shadow 2's certainly have one. The sensor is on the A bank of cylinders towards the rear of the engine just above the spark plug and the buzzer is behind the speedometer.
Kind regards,
Chris
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Brian Vogel
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Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1246
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 09:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I can't seem to locate anything that definitively shows when the overheating warning buzzer came on the scene for the Shadows. It may have been there from the start.

I do know that multiple other owners and posters on various RR forums have said that by the time the buzzer goes off the damage is most likely already done. I never understood the purpose of a so-called warning that is more akin to "this engine will has self-destructed" message.

Brian, who's often thought about trying to figure out if a sensor that would trigger a warning at a point that's well below critical, but still above normal, could be sourced and fitted
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Mark Aldridge
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Username: mark_aldridge

Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 10:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, I have removed the original radio and the separate cassette player on my Shadow 1 (1975),and replaced them with a Blaupunkt Toronto BT radio where the cassette was located. This unit provides CD, MP3, USB, hands free phone and radio.I have a veneered panel in the centre console in place of the original radio with a temp gauge and an oil pressure gauge in it. (VDO Electric units) The placing is not ideal, but better than nothing.
On my S1, Which has oil and water temp gauges but they are rather slow reacting, I have fitted an oil warning which comes on dimly at 25psi and bright at 15psi and a water temp warning triggered by the Kenlowe thermostat in the top hose which switches on at 85 oC which is plenty hot enough on this engine. A kenlowe type thermostat could be used to trigger a warning on any engine.
As an aside, MG is rumoured to have deleted the oil pressure gauge on the late 1500cc rubber bumper midgets because of the concern of owners at the plummeting oil pressure !!! The warning light comes on at about 5 psi ! I have a 20psi switch fitted to mine, although this comes on at idle hot.
Mark
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Richard Treacy
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Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3186
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 11:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


quote:

SY1 very definitely should have is an engine temperature gauge.




The early cars have them. Looks good, doesn't work. The sender is located at the rear of the B-Bank cylinder head, a lousy place to put it. The gauges invariably read high and the reading wanders. Such were the Customer complaints that the gauge was deleted around 1970 in lieu of the ammeter and the buzzer was introduced.

For the SSII it was reintroduced with the sender incredibly located on the thermostat housing as on MkVI, S-Series and all cars from 1977. Bravo, it works. What were they thinking in 1960 when they designed the cars ? On all SY1 cars it is best to fit or to relocate the sender on the thermostat housing - drill a hole and fit a Helicoil to suit. On cars without a gauge, it is customary to replace the ammeter by a temperature gauge.

By the way, my father had a 1971 Volvo 164 at the same time as the T-Series which we still have. The trusty Volvo bit the dust when my brother crashed it after 350,000km and 20 years. My father felt that the Volvo body design is rather similar to the T-Series/Silver Shadow, and both cars have the body built in the same factory by Pressed Steel.

R.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 657
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 13:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark

Your comments have definitely pushed me towards the dual gauge option as fitted on your car. My original idea of using the radio balance switch location was an attempt to "hide" the modification. I am now leaning toward the idea that you can't have it both ways - it's either modified or original. Not being able to monitor the engine bothers me so much I am prepared to sacrifice originality. I note Richard's point about using the ammeter location, but I quite like that instrument as well. Also, the same argument applies i.e. if you switch the ammeter for a temperature gauge the car is no longer original. I think the best course of action is fit the gauges, even if they do look slightly incongruous and enrol on an OCD counseling class.

Richard - Am I right in assuming you specified using a Helicoil, as the thermostat housing is made of alloy too soft to safely fit a sender unit. Could I not just drill a hole and cut a thread for the sender.

As always, your comments are much appreciated.

Geoff
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Mark Herbstreit
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Username: mark_herbstreit

Post Number: 122
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 - 21:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The neatest solution I have seen.

shadtemp
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
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Username: soviet

Post Number: 157
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Thursday, 19 March, 2015 - 03:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark, very tidy indeed, Any suggestions as to where you would put one on a Camargue. Also Mark does your Camargue have a hole in the forward section of the driver's side wood door capping. JRH 23682 does but I cant work out what originally went there. There is just this hole with furry black stuff to curtain whatever was poking through that hole. The switch for the electric side mirror is at the bottom front of the door. Have tried to find a photo on the net of that area on other Camargues to date but with no luck.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 453
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 19 March, 2015 - 06:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My Shadow 1

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Mark Herbstreit
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Username: mark_herbstreit

Post Number: 123
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Thursday, 19 March, 2015 - 21:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad. I suspect your electric mirrors are a later addition(possibly Jag?). It should have the manual remote in the hole in the capping.

camir

I think my Camargue was the very first with electric mirrors.

camir1
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 158
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 20 March, 2015 - 02:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark, thanks, you hit the nail right on the head with the first photo. In the second photo the hole in the wood is a different shape.

You may be right about the side mirrors being after market and maybe jag, but they look so bloody perfect on the car I would have never picked it myself.

I am wondering now what to do with this hole. I am thinking of fabricating a chrome cover for the hole and have the RR symbol similar to whats on the wheel covers etched onto the cover. Any suggestions? By the way Mark I think its supercool that you managed to snatch the Red Label Camargue off the Brits and bring it down under, no doubt some of the stuffy fat boys in the UK had a sook about that one. But you could have nicked the crown jewels out of the tower if you wanted to go one better.
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Bob UK
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Posted From: 94.197.121.185
Posted on Friday, 20 March, 2015 - 06:39:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

How about a small vase for flower. Or a clip for a nice ball point pen. Or chrome surround with 3mm Jack socket for head phones. If SS is used then it can be polished. Use 6 mm thick and round off edges and corners to suit the other chrome bits. Brass is even better with chrome plate.}

(Message approved by david_gore)