| Author | Message | ||
     Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 646 Registered: 5-2012 |
Not much going on at the moment so I thought I'd post this article. Not sure I agree with all that is said in it, but an interesting read nevertheless. http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/news/general/800024041/rolls-royce-silver-spirit-values-emerge-from-entry-level-shadows/ Geoff | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 117 Registered: 2-2013 |
Interesting article Geoff. I agree that Spirits (and Spurs) are undervalued but trying to predict the classic car market is like trying to guess a winning lottery ticket number. And then you get something like the Jag E-type market where their value has defineately risen over the decades but what does that really mean when now your have piles of these things on the UK market which appear just to stay there and not get sold - like everybody waiting for their pound of flesh - a bit like the Australian real estate market - wildly over priced but the estate agents will continue in desperation to talk the market up when in fact its outstripped common joe's ability to service the mortgage given the level of wages and those who can get into the market are virtually economic slaves to the banks for a life time. | ||
| Benoit Leus Prolific User Username: benoitleus Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2009 |
I agree that it's almost impossible to predict the classic car market. Respected car dealer Tom Hartley predicted last year that the Silver Shadow II would double in value in the next 5 years. If he's proven right this might indeed have an influence on Silver Spirit prices. As the article states, a later Spirit might be a better car than a Shadow, but its breeze block styling probably comes over as less "old world charm" to a lot of buyers. I'll just sit back and wait to see my Shadow doubling in value (or not). | ||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 236 Registered: 8-2012 |
Yes. 'Better car' really has nothing to do with the classic car market. If people wanted a 'better car' they wouldn't buy a car that was over 40 years old! Classic cars are all about styling and nostalgia, amongst other things | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 119 Registered: 2-2013 |
Bob, I think you are wrong. If people want a better car they SHOULD buy a car that IS over 40 years old. Well of course if you want reliability then cars over 40 years old are definitely the only way to go. If you want style, cars over 40 years old are definitely the only way to go. Now I am not talking about basket cases that have been left in a Queensland cane field to rot in the putrid humidity for decades I am talking about cars over 40 years old that have been gone through mechanically and brought up to scratch. Also, if you are looking for a car that will increase in value then cars over 40 years old are definitely on the money. The new cars are over complicated and full of electronic parts that have a great record of letting people down without any warning. Perhaps all these great little electronic devices are made in some place known for quality like China. Coil packs go on a regular basis lovely things that they are. Then when you look at the late model cars, they are just as interesting as watching paint dry. With the exception of the fibre timing gears on Holdens, the cars of 1950-1976 are a good investment and are reliable if brought up to scratch. I am starting to look for a Packard now and I hoping to get one that really guzzles the fuel. Yes something that I can call up my local greeny and inform him/her that I have a two ton car that is polluting the earth. Well if I lived in the city I would probably put the sucker on LPG. But I don't. I say to hell with the new car manufacturers I don't care if each and every one of them ends up in bankruptcy. I hate new cars Bob. They are all junk. I have watched the classic car market closely since the 1970's and what has happened is old cars in Oz that once brought you $50 are now on the market for seven grand and up. There is this attitude, that the old bombs needed to be replaced with some Asian piece of junk that looks like an insect. I remember being in sales one time and the company needed a new car for the travelling sales rep. The choice was between a XD Falcon and a Silver Monarch and the fool management patted themselves on the back for choosing the XD. What is the XD worth now? Well you have to pay to have the XD towed away and the Silver Monarch, try to find one under ten grand. I had the opportunity of buying an almost mint condition 1965 Buick Riviera for four grand in 1983. I had known this car since it was new. I kick myself that I didn't have the foresight to rob a till here and there to put that four grand on it because now the same car sells for 35 grand in the USA. You should never sell your RR/B Bob because if you live another 30 years you will be crying tears of shame, loathing and doom. These things must go up in value regardless of the problems of being able to get the right lubricating brake fluid etc etc. Yes definitely cars over 40 years old really have something that you simply can't buy today new for 40 to 100 grand. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1225 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir, As much as I love my older cars (after all, my daily driver is now 26 model years old - and I'm that figure times two) I simply can't agree with the assertion that all new cars "are junk." The reliability of current cars far, far, far surpasses what anyone could have dreamed of in the 1960s and 1970s. For the most part automotive electronics, in my experience and based on reading and research, will outlive me and most mechanical components and body work on the car. I've never quite understood why the electronics on RR/Bentley motorcars are as fragile as a gnat's wing when compared against what is available (and has been available, for decades) on the lowliest of economy cars. The ignition coils on my '99 Jaguar did give out far more frequently than they should. However, if/when they did, a less than 5 minute check with a code reader and a less than 30 minute roadside exchange would have me back on the road. The amount of guesswork involved, even by those far more experienced with "old cars" than I, is immense compared to newer cars. Brian, who'd take a Tesla S or a pre-latest-bland-styling Jaguar of the last decade in a heartbeat over most cars of the 1970s, even in excellent shape | ||
| richard george yeaman Prolific User Username: richyrich Post Number: 261 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hi The youngest car we have in our household is a Ford Focus C Max 1.6 T D we have had it for two years and nine months so far it has only given trouble once that was when it was just over 1 year old.Ihad to lift my wife Margaret who is blind and her friend Jennifer who has no legs at Belfast International airport we hadn't travelled much more than a mile and a half when the car went into limp home mode I had to keep the car going for the most of 20 miles to leave Jennifer home when we got there I stopped the engine and then started the engine it had reset whatever was wrong with it and the fault ha not reoccurred since this in my opinion is modern technology at its worst when you never feel confident in the car you drive I put my faith in the old school long live the good old classics. Richard. | ||
| Bob Reynolds Prolific User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 237 Registered: 8-2012 |
"Well of course if you want reliability then cars over 40 years old are definitely the only way to go." I think this must be some sort of joke! Cars in the 60s and 70s weren't even reliable when they were new! After 40 years, everything is wearing out and failing. It can be repaired, but that's usually only after it's failed and caused trouble. However, I do think it will probably be true that when modern cars are 30 or 40 years old, they will not be reliable as today's 40 year old cars, simply because the electronics have a limited life span and that will cause no end of problems. I do agree with your other points. Today's cars have no style or character at all (with a few exceptions). They all look the same, and you can't even tell what they are unless you can find a badge. Some are downright ugly and I don't know what idiots buy them. | ||
| Bob UK. Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.120.192 |
Good o. The shadow is also conning out of the shadows DHC rag tops are fast approaching £60k some say 75k which is a bit strong. Prices are moving up 5% for saloons, this year. so all good. my guess a nice saloon 15k in 5 years and rag tops 75k. The spirit saloon,a good carb version also 15k. RR cars of the sixty and seventys were very reliable once the pdi bugs had been sorted. My boss New shadow was good when delivered. And the first service all the oils were changed. Aston Martin and Jag were king terrible. It took me all day to find a dodgy loom splice which wasn't shown in the diagrams. Aston Martin V8 not happy with that engine. The sixes are quick wear and a 100k miles is likely to need overhaul. So RR quite good.  (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 763 Registered: 1-2008 |
I remember the classic car market in the UK in the late 80's when a barely rolling basket case of a Cloud could command £15K+ and still require at least 3 times as much to put into decent order again. Shadows and Spirits weren't much better. Even so a fair profit could be made if the rebuild was done carefully. At that time a well fettled E-Type might top £100K with a successfully raced model heading for 7 figures! IIRC a Japanese business man bought the 3 surviving BAT cars (not to be confused with the Batmobile) for around £8 million. 3 months later he had to withdraw them from auction as they couldn't even reach the reserve price of £3 million. Obviously the bubble had burst and a lot of chancers went bust. Since then I've seen the market struggle to move forward to any degree. On the whole it's been 3 steps forward and 2 back. Sometimes it's even been the other way round: 2 forward and 3 back! The only constant has been rarity. Although many cars of the 60's, 70's and 80's were made in the millions, very few have survived to the present day. Few would argue that the Rover P5B isn't a fine car in its own way, but it's no Rolls Royce or Bentley. Even so, in a similar condition, it can fetch as much or even more than a decent Shadow of the same era. As such only a true seer might be able to predict the future trends. Even so I wouldn't bet on his accuracy with my own money! In the meantime I'll happily spend virtually all my money on my Shadow secure in the knowledge that I'm driving the best motor car in the world! | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1561 Registered: 4-2003 |
I really am a pleb; I don't give a stuff about the value of my car. I just insure it to the hilt to avoid it being written off for a dented hubcap! I use it daily, there are lots of things need doing to it, the front seat leather is cracking and the finish is peeling off the sill boards. I love the old girl, never go anywhere without my phone, in case, and so many people simply stop and enjoy it also! | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.120.203 |
I don't really care about the value and mileage, the car goes nice job done. It's like my house worth a fortune if I sell then I am homeless. Besides I am not short of money. If I sell my car I would end up buying another RR. In time the Shadow 1 will be the best car RR have made. It still has a modern feel to drive and use, but is also easy to repair in that everything can taken apart and cheaply repaired using diy made bits. This is what I mean by SENSIBLE bodges. Later stuff tends to have bits that don't come apart. Typical example is the seat electrics very cheap and easy to fix and Robust. The New Ghost not so easy. The Shadow is completely diy friendly. The mistake that is made is diving in and not reading the manual first and also not understanding how the car really work and attributing bad science to rationalize what the repairer is thinking. Nothing is that hard or fiddley to do, just patience required. Even special tools are easy to make or get round. Only the rear brgs need special tools like 100 ton press. That's big. These are available as an exchange hub with New disc, problem solved. In any case any RR specialist will overhaul a hub and it's less than an hour to take the hub off. Once the yoke is off rest is quick and easy. I because of the ease of ownership will keep my car till the sun sets for me. Also apart from fuel costs the cost compares well with say a Audi A6 or a 5 series BMW. A Shadow at 60 mph is nicer than any Mercedes-Benz. My car has a sweet spot of 55 to 65. Which is just right and 18mpg on lpg which is excellent. 60mph is an easy speed to drive at no stress on the car or driver. Plus one can let the pick up speed downhill without exceeding 70 mph 80 is ok. Just right. Also the shadow is a useful car it also does shopping and traffic with great aplomb. Nice place for a cat nap. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.120.203 |
The P5B is spoilt by the engine. Because the 3 litre 6 is very much smoother and not that much slower. The six if made into say 3.5 litres, would have worked better. The 3 litre six is level with RR quality wise. That said a good P5B coupe is a excellent car that I would happily own. Love the dashboard. The brakes and handling are fine and not bad as some say. Like RR they like to be maintained correctly. if you fancy one don't dismiss a six until driven. There are some bargains about. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 137 Registered: 2-2013 |
SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITAL LETTERS BUT MY LAPTOP KEYBOARD HAS GONE FERAL ON ME AGAIN NO DOUBT BECAUSE ITS MADE IN CHINA AND IS ONLY 2 YEARS OLD. NOW HERE IS A BARGAIN SURELY. A 1992 CORNICHE DROPHEAD IN SA FOR A MERE $497,000 AND THATS NOT A MISPRINT. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT A CAR OR A HOME IS ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEBODY IS PREPARED TO PAY FOR IT. THE POINT OF THAT GREAT STATEMENT IS THAT WHILE THIS CAR MAY BE WORTH $495,000 THE SECOND IT IS PAID FOR, IT MAY INDEED BE WORTH LESS THAN A QUARTER OF THE PRICE ASKED ONE SECOND AFTER THAT PAYMENT HAS BEEN MADE. ON A BRIGHTER NOTE SPIRITS AND SPURS ARE HITTING THE MARKET FOR $14,000 AND UP. SOME ARE SAD VEHICLES NEEDING LOTS OF WORK OTHERS ARE REASONABLE CONDITION AT A REASONABLE PRICE. ONE THING THAT ALWAYS GRINDS ON ME IS A CONVERTIBLE THAT DOES NOT LOOK PERFECT WITH THE HOOD UP OR DOWN. I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY BUT QUIET A NUMBER OF CLOUDS WHEN THE TOP IS DOWN AND FLUSH WITH THE BODY THAT TO ME IS MUCH MORE APPEALING TO THE EYE THAN ANY CORNICHE WITH THIS THUMPING BIG BAG AT THE TOP OF THE REAR SEATS. JENSEN DID THE SAME THING. I THINK THEY LOOK BL***Y AWFUL. WAS IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR CREWE TO MAKE A CONVERTIBLE DURING THE TIME OF SHADOW 1 AND 2 WHERE THE TOP DISAPPEARED OR DID THE DESIGNER THINK THE BAG LOOKED ATTRACTIVE. THEN AGAIN MANY THINK THE CAMARGUE IS UGLY BUT I SEE GREAT STYLE IN THEM. PERHAPS ITS ALL SUBJECTIVE AND EACH TO HIS OWN. A BIT LIKE WOMEN I GUESS | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1239 Registered: 6-2009 |
Vladimir, I have to agree with you that, given the option between an disappearing convertible top, and a deck-stacked convertible top, the former is far preferable aesthetically. That being said, my experience (and a search of Google Images for RR Silver Cloud DHC) seems to indicate that disappearing style of convertible tops is quite the exception on RR & Bentley cars that came before the Shadow era cars. To get that hidden top, when folded, requires a great sacrifice in trunk/boot space, and my guess is that this tradeoff was probably not found to be satisfactory by Crewe's customers. It would be interesting to know whether this presumption has any basis in fact, but I have no idea who could confirm or refute it definitively. It could also be a holdover from landaulettes, too. The British do love tradition. |
