Posted From: 18.104.22.168
|Posted on Wednesday, 15 October, 2014 - 06:41: |
I brought my 1974 Shadow in 1989 25 years ago when I had hair and my own teeth and I didn't need glasses.
A 15 year old RR past it's first flush of youth was considered as a nice old banger in the UK.
Over the years I have repaired and restored bits. The car is 99% as it left the factory. The most obvious being the CD and radio. The not so obvious is lpg and kunifer brake lines.
In the last few years I have become increasingly aware that the shadow is becoming rare and especially chrome bumper version.
When I brought my car I had looked at 10 Shadow 1s all within 30 miles. Now any Shadow for sale locally is rare. Shadows are about as rare as Clouds.
Price wise a Condition 2 Shadow ( a car that looks and drives correctly) is at least £8000. Careful here because I see lots of nice looking cars that appear to be condition 2 or even 1 that have dodgy mechanicals. Cars masquerading as as 1 and 2s which are really 2 and 3s. An example was a Wraith Empress limousine with big chrome headlights, the car has been bodged restored. That car will sell because it has nice leather and paint and lovely big chrome headlights. The brake drums are overbored with thicker brake shoes and many other mechanical indiscretions. The new owner won't know until a few years and a few miles that brakes aren't right and when they go to do the Work they will find the rest of the nasties.
The prices of Shadows is following how Cloud prices soared in the 1970s. In 1968 my neighbour brought a six cylinder Cloud for £1000 which was the price of a new Ford or whatever. My Shadow cost the price of a new Ford or whatever in 1989. Notice that the price of a Cloud 4 door saloon is about the same price as any other RR 4 door saloon that was made before the Cloud. Exclude Phantoms and Ghosts.
So do bear in mind that when one is repairing a Shadow that any bodges will be regretted a few years down the road. Radical modifications such as a GM small block engine will haunt one. Would you buy a Cloud with a GM engine.
The Americans seem to restore vehicles by modernising them. I saw a Jag XJ series 3 on telly, instead of doing a standard paint job they added custom stripes and blingy wheels. It ruined the car. However another respray should put it right.
I am very mindfull of the quality of any work and parts I do to my RR, because when I am gone my family will want to sell the car.
But on the other hand I used to buy a banger fix it up ( bodge) get bored and sell after 6 months and do it again. It's only a car.
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 499
|Posted on Wednesday, 15 October, 2014 - 11:21: |
An interesting topic. It's so hard to predict what will happen to Silver Shadow prices over the next 10 years. When I make changes to my car I always keep the original parts, just in case. They can always be renovated and refitted.
I would take issue with your assertion that Shadows are as rare as Clouds. Surely, that cannot be the case.
Post Number: 178
|Posted on Wednesday, 15 October, 2014 - 16:49: |
No they're not.
But they soon will be, at the rate at which they are being broken up for spares!
Post Number: 175
|Posted on Thursday, 16 October, 2014 - 21:53: |
Some time ago Tom Hartley Sr (a respected car dealer) reckoned the Shadow 2 would double it's value over the next 5 years.
Somehow, I doubt it, but we'll see.
Posted From: 22.214.171.124
|Posted on Friday, 17 October, 2014 - 07:39: |
I done a Cloud verses Shadow sales shoot out. And.
43 clouds and 62 shadows. Which is close but no cigar YET.
I also doubt double in 5 years but 25% would put a £8000 car to £10000. And a £16000 car to £20000. Another 5 years and 25% puts the 8000 car at 12500 and the 16000 at 25000. Tip some inflation in the mix. Add 20%. after ten years. And the 8000 becomes 13750 and the 16000 27500.
Getting into Cloud price area.
If the Shadow is a dhc rag top then I can see 75000.
In 1983 I sold a 1965 Jag MK ll 3.4 manual overdrive in midnight blue red leather for £1200 which at the time was top.end for that particular car. Which I drove from London to Bristol return with no problems.
Of late the Shadow is becoming noticed. For Years no mention then the car media start talking about the Shadow.
The Shadow marks a division in RR style and history. If all the models from 1904 to date are lined up then at 1966 there will be a gap which people will ask where's the missing model between a Cloud and a Shadow.
The Shadow 2 was not meant to be. The upset in 1971 over the split from aero side delayed the launch of the SZ. The same happen with the Shadow.
The Cloud 1 was obviously down on power so the cloud 2 was made. Apart from the engine other bits got updated.
The Cloud 3 was not meant to be but because BMC pulled out of making a smaller Bentley based on the Austin Westminster. It delayed the Shadow. Hence the 1963 to 1965 Cloud. The best looking clouds are the 2s.IMO.
The Cloud 1 engine was a mistake because although good enough for a lighter dawn not good enough for a heavier cloud.
The Shadow 2 was a test bed for some of the spirit bits. I don't know why the Shadow 2 and not the 1 is tipped to double.
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 156
|Posted on Friday, 17 October, 2014 - 09:42: |
Bob, whilst the Cloud 1 may be a little underpowered, the engine is far quieter and smoother than the V8. I regularly drive my 1956 S1 from the Midlands to the east coast, and it happily cruises at 60-70 mph with quite adequate overtaking abilities and is equally at home on motorways and hacking through London traffic. I used my Shadow 1 as my daily driver for 12 years until I had the body restored and it seemed sacrilege to hammer it up farm drives and field roads on business again. My wife has a 1987 Bentley8, and my daily runabout and "office hack" is a 1983 Mulsanne which I recently purchase to replace the tired Spirit.
My point is that the build quality of these cars has steadily deteriorated and the S1 is in a different class to the Bentley8. The Shadow 1 is in my opinion the best all rounder albeit the most thirsty on fuel, and very undervalued. A 400 mile commute and business meeting were effortless in the Shadow.
Posted From: 126.96.36.199
|Posted on Friday, 17 October, 2014 - 10:59: |
I agree with your views on the 4.9 six. All straight sixes run smoother than a V8. The performance is adequate for the car when considering real life motoring. Although 0 to 60 in under ten seconds sounds good I don't drive like that I tend to go 0 to 30 in 20 secs and then 30 to 70 in 2 minutes.
However the car buying public get taken in by the numbers, and RR had to go with it. Especially if they wanted to sell cars in the USA.
I like the Wraith because it's got big chrome headlights and a six in line and 7 seats.
The tie up with BMC was about making a smaller car that was sub 1.75 tons with the same interior room as the Cloud. The end result was the princess 4 litre R and the Austin 3 litre. The Bentley version, Java or Tibet had stacked headlights and a Bentley grill and sloped rear lights like the later SY corniche. 4 doors. Also the 1958 Rover P5 got looked at.
Where it went wrong for the six was the ever increasing weight of the cars.
A properly set up cloud on the correct tyres was raced across France in the fifties and the story talks of 110 mph in places and opposite lock.
I also agree with the engineering in later cars.
I like polished well finished bits. The look is important to me. I like that grey colour of the alternator I like the fins on the regulator. I like the contrast of satin black and shinny aluminum. The hydraulic tank looks attractive with the labels. The screen wash set up on a SY1 is bad though. Cheap and nasty.
The car would work just as well with rough castings and no paint.
The newer cars have lost that quality made in England look.
I think the underbonnet area of New stuff looks all plastic and like a mass produced normal car.
If a computer is used then little design asthetics all end up the same. Why design a nice looking screen wash motor just buy in a std one. If I designed the car it would cost more for the customer who doesn't care.
RR cares about its customers not future owners 50 years later.
Notice that Jaguar avoided V8s by keeping weight down. The V12 was the only option when they needed more capacity. Maybe RR would have been better off with a V12. Maximum capacity for a in line six in a car is 5 litres. After that the engine ends up to tall or too long.
(Message approved by david_gore)
Post Number: 103
|Posted on Sunday, 09 November, 2014 - 17:52: |
I've had my Shadow for 5.5 yrs, a dream realised. this example is 1975 SRH19305. These are hard to find in Australia in good condition. Prices are a little more expensive than the UK, starting at around AUD$ 18,000 for a reasonable one. Expect to double that to get it right however.
I prefer this model over the Shadow 2. The 2 does not look right with rubber bumpers.,OK the steering may have improved and a few other bits, but nothing, for me anyway, replaces the look and feel of of Shadow 1. Personally I love the waft in the ride and the fact she leans through corners make it all the more interesting.
I keep her as original as I can, importing parts from the UK (darn site cheaper than buying from here thats for sure).
I love the feel of the beefy V8 as she takes me with ease through the Hinterland, sorry countryside for those of you in the UK?
I have noticed a slight increase in prices for Shadows here but Clouds do seem, to me anyway, a little on the expensive side in this part of the world.
BTW keep your chrome immaculate by using that old favourite WD40
Post Number: 7
|Posted on Monday, 10 November, 2014 - 10:33: |
I agree with Kevin Laden about the early shadows.I have had 3 of them over a 30 year time frame and at present have a 1969 T type SBH5495 that I am slowly getting into first class working order with the help of Philip Sproston from Excelsior Garage.He has just moved to Harden which is only an hour drive from me.While I may increase my collection this one is a long term keeper.Such a pleasure to drive,
Posted From: 188.8.131.52
|Posted on Monday, 10 November, 2014 - 11:47: |
I have SRH17668 1974. I prefer the chrome. But like the instrument layout of the 2. I think the split level is good but a 1 will do the same if set right and is tweaked a bit as the temp changes. The rack does give better steering but isn't as reliable as the box. All in all both cars are about the same as they are different.
I have had my car since 1989 and it soldiers on with a bit work every now and then.
(Message approved by david_gore)