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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.82
Posted on Sunday, 13 July, 2014 - 09:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chatting to a jag xj12 owner

He uses mobile 1 oil

He only changes the filter not the oil

His rational is that the engine uses oil about 1/2 litre per 1000 miles

He has done 30k miles on the oil and used about 15 litres for topping up plus top up for 4 oil filter changes

The engine holds about 8 litres so the engine has had twice that amount in top ups over 30k miles

Amother lad said that this is liable to wreak the engine because everyone knows that oil and filter must be changed together

I think the jag guy is right and the engine will be fine and his oil is not unduly dirty

Then added he changes gear oil every 10k miles which has just been done with the latest dextron it makes the gearbox changes nicer

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Randy Roberson
Prolific User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 241
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, 13 July, 2014 - 13:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Maybe; he's taking considerable risk for the price of oil.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 441
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 13 July, 2014 - 14:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

30k miles on 15 litres for topping up. This is the equivalent of changing his oil approx every 15k miles. Madness in my view, particularly on an engine as expensive as a jaguar V12.

Geoff
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.92
Posted on Monday, 14 July, 2014 - 06:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I calculated 10k miles

I do see where the guy is coming from because Mobil 1 will go to 10k and even maybe 15k

My car is on castrol and I go 6k however I LIKE changing my oil and filter it makes me happy

My car doesn't have a working petrol system and runs lpg only so my oil contamination is far less

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.88
Posted on Monday, 14 July, 2014 - 08:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have just been checking up on engine oil stuff

Jaguar recommends 10 to 15k all models

Weather the XJ12 is included don't know the engine is used in current models

Oil companies are reticent on miles and say refer to car maker

Car makers give a severe change miles as low as 5k and ideal as high as 15k

Ideal is 60mph for two hours

Severe is stop.start short journeys dusty hot freezing

In the UK 6k seems to be traditional and USA 3k

In the USA the feds are concerned about the waste caused by traditional 3k oil changes

10 million gallons a year

That is a lot

Shadows like oil with 1000 ppm zddp
Because of flat tappets

Synthetics have this in them
For turbos and or catalytic converotor use oil with low zddp

For others synthetic with higher zddp max 1600 ppm

Normal oils also have zddp

Zinc and phosphate are excellent anti wear and acid corrosion additives

Too much will foul plugs and more than 400 ppm will scrap the cat

Zddp can be brought as.a separate additive

Don't

buy correct blend of oil

Castrol do a 10/60 full synthetic with 1000ppm zddp

I shall fit it my car next change 43 5 litres

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bob Reynolds
Prolific User
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 115
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Monday, 14 July, 2014 - 16:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Don't buy correct blend of oil" ??

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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 893
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 14 July, 2014 - 23:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob R,

Based on spacing I read the above as:

ZDDP can be bought as a separate additive: don't [do it].
Buy the correct blend of oil.

I agree with the above as I interpreted it, but will add that the whole ZDDP "thing" is yet another of those oh-so-popular created crises that seem to arise like weeds in the collector car and gearhead communities. I've posted the following before, but it bears repeating again:

Reading through the API & ILSAC motor oil standards/specifications for current (API SN/ILSAC GF-5)oils and the preceeding specs should put anyone's mind to rest about the suitability of currently available motor oils for use in older car engines. On the API website, they explicitly state, "For automotive gasoline engines, the latest engine oil service category includes the performance properties of each earlier category. If an automotive owner's manual calls for an API SJ or SL oil, an API SM oil will provide full protection." [See: http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/service-categories]
For oils for gasoline-powered engines, each and every specification meets or exceeds the performance of all of its predecessors. This means that there has been a continuous improvement in lubrication performance and that oils meeting current specifications are far more than "adequate" for older engines.

API Materials:

Motor Oil Matters Guide (2013), "Which Oil is Right for You?" -
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/MOM_GUIDE_ENGLISH_2013.pdf

Full API 1509 Spec - 17th Ed - September 2012 (Includes ILSAC GF-5 Spec in Appendix Q)
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-oil-diesel-exhaust-fluid/~/media/Files/Certification/Engine-Oil-Diesel/Publications/150917editionfinal.ashx

Oil Licensing and Certification Technical Bulletin - http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/new/upload/1509techbull1complete.pdf


ILSAC Final GF-5 Spec:
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/ILSAC_GF-5_Dec-22-09_final.pdf


and, from the Mobil Oil Q&A Site:

On needing to Mix Oils for ZDDP Levels:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/ZDDP_Levels_Classic_Cars.aspx
I find it interesting that even on this "answers" page the statement is made that a
particular one of their oils, "already contains a higher level of ZDDP (1000 ppm) that
*could* benefit your flat tappet engine." [emphasis on that could is mine]. I have yet
to find a single manufacturer who states either "will" or "does," but instead couches
the statements in ways such that the preconceived notion is addressed.

On Zinc & Phosphorus Levels:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_in_Engine_Oils.aspx

On Purported "Removal" of ZDDP from Motor Oils:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Motor_Oils.aspx

Mobil Oil Product Table, including Zinc & Phosphorus Levels:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf


Brian
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.92
Posted on Tuesday, 15 July, 2014 - 05:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sorry I meant don't use additives buy the correct oil

The reason for the post was because the environmental protection agencys in Europe and USA are reducing the amount of essential additives because of the catalytic converter efficiency

The latest oils are SM and now SN


The Zddp in SN oil is about 400 ppm

To sort the problem engine designers have redesigned the cam to tappet area

The shadow cam needs zddp to survive

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.89
Posted on Tuesday, 15 July, 2014 - 08:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gas monkey garage

They had an engine rebuilt which within minutes wreaked the cam and lifters

They blamed the oil

I suspect that the lack of Zddp caused this

There seems to be anecdotal evidence [hearsay] that engines are being damaged by lack of zddp

Zddp is not a snake oil product like slippery 50 with added Draylon
The idea is the plastic coats the bearings which works well for frying eggs so it must be good for engines

Like Brian Vogel I am aware of the oh my god our old cars are doomed syndrome

The oil guys are aware of the problem and produce oils which have the required additives

Just make sure that the oil is the correct one and don't assume that a SN oil is ok some are some are not

I do not use additives unless the car makers require it RR do not use them so neither should the owner

The thought of bits of cam in me big ends is a nightmare

Don't get me started on "additives" as in snake oil

(Message approved by david_gore)