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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 424
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 17 June, 2014 - 12:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Folks

I was checking out the website howmanyleft and was surprised to see the figure for the number of Silver Shadows registered in the UK is 85. This seems impossibly low. The figures are taken from the DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority). For 2013 58 cars are listed as licensed for road use and 27 cars as SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification). Suspecting that the website was wildly inaccurate I checked out various other cars and found the figures looked plausible. Could this figure of 85 Silver Shadows be true? Maybe owners are "hiding" their cars? Can anyone enlighten me. I was expecting there to be several thousand still in use or registered as off road.

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/family/rolls_royce_silver_shadow

Geoff
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Bob Reynolds
Prolific User
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 101
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 17 June, 2014 - 16:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree. It does seem much lower than expected.

But when you think about it, how many Silver Shadows do you actually see on the road?

A lot of cars are being broken up for parts.
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 169
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 17 June, 2014 - 19:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have noticed that the asking price for silver shadows have started to rise probably due to the information that Geoff has stated makes you wonder where they have all gone.

Richard.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 427
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 18 June, 2014 - 00:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard

I have also noticed that, here in the US. Some traders are advertising at 50k, something I never used to see. Also a lot of cars are advertised at 20K plus. It may well be that there are far fewer of these cars still on the road than I first thought.

Geoff
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 865
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 18 June, 2014 - 05:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Basing any idea of valuation on owner (or consignment reseller) asking prices is highly problematic.

There tends to be a very strong tendency to believe that RR motorcars (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Bentleys) are worth far more than they can actually be sold for, at least in the United States.

Over the years I've seen people asking astronomical prices for Shadow series cars that were most likely to end up being used as a parts donor.

I, too, have noticed an uptick in the asking prices for Silver Shadows, but I think that has as much to do with some improvement in the economy as anything else. I'd want to know actual sale prices, which are much harder to ferret out, before drawing any inferences regarding the value of Shadows and their derivatives.

Brian
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 171
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 18 June, 2014 - 08:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian what I said was an observation of a rise in the asking prices of Silver Shadows across the board and if the figures Geoff has provided are correct 58 road legal cars in the UK that would make these cars very rare Vehicles indeed now I personally am not interested in buying or selling any of the afore mentioned only that I can keep SRH19529 on the road for a long time. Richard.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 868
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 18 June, 2014 - 09:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard,

My prior comment was not aimed at you or anyone in particular. The US seems to still have plenty of Shadows for sale and on the road. I shan't get into the operating condition of a good many of them.

I still stick by my statement that asking prices are a very iffy way of getting a sense of valuation on these cars. As several members of the RROC-US have been fond of saying, "Your car is worth whatever someone is willing to offer you for it, not what you hope it will sell for."

Brian
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.86
Posted on Wednesday, 18 June, 2014 - 06:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Shadows are going up in value in the UK very slowly

The advertised price does reflect the current value but all prices are usually negotiated down by the buyer

Bentleys in UK fetch 10% more because of the racing connection Bentley Boys oh rather what what

I don't see many shads

A shadow in good nick sells soon in UK

Some want any RR and are now going for the spirit because they are cheaper

Clouds were going for 500 in the 1970s 6000 in today's money

Last year a very rough cloud went for 20000 it had no redeeming features except one of the tyres looked ok

That car is now probably looking good with a 75000 price tag

In UK it is not a good idea to hide cars from sorn a car hidden for say 10 years would attract 10 years back duty which could make the hard to sell on the dvla will prosecute

58 left could be about right

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Hubert Kelly
Prolific User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 124
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Thursday, 19 June, 2014 - 04:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi all, I did a quick count of all the RR Silver Shadows for sale on one web site carandclasssic.co.uk to find at least 60 for sale in the United Kingdom, with this in mind surely its just a fraction of all Shadows in the UK?. On a web site in The Irish Republic there are at least 15 shadows for sale right night from good to poor state of repair. At a guess I assume the number of Shadows in the UK must be in the thousands??.
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 173
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 19 June, 2014 - 08:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Hubert I checked some on ebay not many had tax or MOT showing in the details year mileage etc to be on the records the car should be legal.
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Hubert Kelly
Prolific User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 125
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Thursday, 19 June, 2014 - 09:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,I am shocked to think that this statistic is true I guess. I never really thought of the car(my car) as being/or becoming rare. I think its time to buy an old one for spares again I guess?.
HK
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 174
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Thursday, 19 June, 2014 - 18:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hubert sadly that is exactly the outcome that many of these cars have had, add to this the banger race craze, The salvage yards breaking up good roadworthy cars for parts its not too hard to see why these cars could become scarce.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 432
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 01:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've found the error in the "howmanyleft" website. The raw data released by the UK DVLA, that this website uses, has a category of "missing". The label "missing" is specified when vehicles have not been allocated a model code, most likely those manufactured before 1972. The figure for "missing" is around 7000. This would include all Rolls Royces and not just Silver Shadows, made before 1972. So, the figure for the number of Silver Shadows will be much higher than that given by the website. The true number will probably never be known.

Geoff
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 405
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 03:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As a matter of interest I wonder if the numbers for Silver Wraiths are similar to Shadow numbers on the DVLA register. If you apply the ratios, there ought to be maybe 1 car on their records.......
Something is wrong with all these numbers.

Omar
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 433
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 04:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Omar

Wraiths are not listed, other than the new V12 Wraiths. I came across the website and thought it was interesting, however looking deeper into it shows the figures are a lot of nonsense. These figures are the ones produced by the UK DVLA. I don't know why they have released them. They are totally meaningless. They give a date of 1972 from which they imply the figures are accurate, but it is obvious they are not, even for cars manufactured through the 1980's. I don't know why they can't produce this data accurately since they have all the information of all cars registered in the UK. I should write them a letter of complaint signed "Outraged of Cleveland".

Geoff
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.89
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 07:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Total shadow cars made
38107

Includes carmargue 434 made
excludes Phantoms 47 made

4 door swb lwb SS1 21205 made
SS2 11134

The rest were coupes and ragtops

Those 60 cars advertised some of them will be in dvla data bases

The others will be in the trade

140 cars plus say a generous.50 for missed ones

200 cars tops is my guess

UK used to be awash with Ford cortinas all but gone

Half the shadows went to.USA

Rest UK with.5% other markets

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 09:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I do not have the most recent "Chassis Plate" to hand at the moment but, based on the 2001 Register, I would expect there are over 200 SY cars on the Register, over 70 SY2, around 10 SW2, over 40 Corniches and over 10 Camargues in Australia at the present time. This does not include cars owned by non-Club members.

Most of these cars are either fully registered for road use or are on classic car plates. It is worthwhile noting here that a significant number of Shadows have been imported mainly from the UK over the years.

Their loss is our gain also our climate is more conducive to long-term preservation.
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John Budden
Experienced User
Username: johnb

Post Number: 34
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, 20 June, 2014 - 13:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have a copy (undated and unsigned but it lists every model up to 2003) of 7 pages of "Rolls-Royce & Bentley Production Milestones". If it of interest I will scan and put up but for Shadow (only -not LWBs or Bentleys) the production was 16717 of which 15200 were estimated to have survived.
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.84
Posted on Saturday, 21 June, 2014 - 05:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

16717 tallies with my book
These are swb ss1

1712 T1s

2776 lwb ss1

No T1 LWB made

SS2 8422

SS2 wraith lwb 2144

T2 558

T2 lwb 10

Out of the SS1s 8500 approx were UK registered

Most of the T1s were UK because USA didn't take to the Bentley brand

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Kirillov
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.170.8.22
Posted on Monday, 23 June, 2014 - 14:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

How disturbing all this talk is about the number of Silver Shadows left in the UK. Surely the numbers are wrong. I am a bit annoyed by all the reading I have done on the Camargue. I have read every article on the internet and in hard copy that I can find. I have had my Camargue now for about 3 years and have had much time to go over it. There is much to do about the car being similar to a Fiat 130. I seen the similarity but its very faint. I think the entire Camargue bashing syndrome comes down to the "lets chop down the tall poppys" caper except this time its cars not people. Can we believe that a firm like RR made a lousy car? Ever ? I can't. I think that even old rusty Shadows should be preserved and repaired. The car industry today is in my opinion turning out disposable transport under the quise of enviromental dribble and safety waffle. Both the Shadow and the Camargue are art forms as well as fine vehicles. The interiors are second to none. As for the outside appearance of the Camargue I would be the first to say that the front is brutal. I often think it would look much better if the headlight assemblies were recessed into the front of the guard by one or two inches. I havent really worked up the courage to try it but it just might happen as I am never going to sell this car. Of course I hate the idea of altering the original design. But the side view and the rear view to me is perfect. Of course when the Camargue first came out it was evidently the most expensive car in the world. Here I think Crewe really went over the top, however to produce such low volumes in such quality was obviously an exercise in extravagance leading to possibly a loss of profit on each one made. The people that bought them new must have been haemoraging sterling pounds. Does anybody out there know how to retrieve a forgotten password.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 23 June, 2014 - 16:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vladimir,

I suggest you send an email to the Administrator of this Forum to see if there is a way to resurrect your membership.

admin@rrforums.net

As far as your password goes, the easiest way to create an unforgettable password is to use your car details to create your password
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Bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.92
Posted on Tuesday, 24 June, 2014 - 06:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The carmargue was designed by pinafarina as was the 130 about the same time too.

The Carmargue is rare because it has no obvious advantage over the corniche and cost more

I have only seen one

Most find the front end a bit off

Designing cars around the RR rad shape is what catches most designers out

(Message approved by david_gore)