| Author | Message | ||
     David Michael Leedy Experienced User Username: dleedy Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2011 |
I bought my 1975 Silver Shadow a few years back...The front power windows, other than the passenger side moving slowly, they have worked fine. The rear windows never worked and I have never attempted to lower them as I believe the wires to the motor were disconnected due to electrical problems? I have heard stories about problems with window units, especially when they have not been used for a long time. I'm sure I will need to replace them but was hoping someone had experience with refurbishing them...Is it possible? Any info would be appreciated. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 591 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, The first thing you should do is to read the Window Lift Improvement Article by Richard Treacy. You may or may not wish to implement this for your rear windows, but it's worth reading whether you do or not. You're going to have to remove the door panels to see what's going on inside the doors no matter what you do (unless you do nothing). There is nothing at all complicated about the motors themselves and they can be refurbished. Generally you are going to want to make sure the motors themselves work, that the plastic coupling between the motor and the window transmission is intact and there's sufficient grease in that area, that the transmission itself is not frozen up (unlikely), that your chain is well lubricated, and that the brake solenoid is releasing the "brake fingers" when you hit the window switch. It is also possible for the motor brushes to get stuck in their sleeves after long periods of inactivity. Brian, who also suggests you do a forums search on windows, as this is very well covered territory in these parts | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 502 Registered: 1-2008 |
You have to bear in mind that the electrics to all the windows and door locks go through the switches on the driver's door first. This means that any breaks in the wires going through the flexible 'pipe' between the door and the pillar will stop that relevant motor working. After so many years and thousands of flexing of these wires it's hardly surprising that some of them may have broken. I found several on my '76 SY1 and replaced them all. Unfortunately I did it 'quick & dirty' with whatever wire I had to hand, so most of them need doing again. You will need some kind of self-powered continuity meter to check each one in turn from each door switch back to the joining block just behind the trim panel at the side of the footwell. Once you have identified the broken ones it's a lot simpler to replace them than might seem the case. You have to be slow and careful! If you don't have the range of colours to identify each one you should make small labels with the name of the device (including up/down for the windows and open/close for the locks) in advance. At first look it might seem impossible to thread the new wires through to the car, but there's an easy way of doing it: After checking that all the micro switches are still working detach the connector from the switch and the wire. Solder one end of the new wire to the old one and simply pull the old one through while the new one follows it. Now you can cut the new one to length and solder connectors onto each end (don't forget the labels), replace each end and then go on to the next. Pay special attention to earths as they can be a significant cause of poor operation of any electrical circuit. If any of the micro switches have failed they can be bought from most eletronics suppliers - eg. RS Spares - or the 'usual suspects' for RR/B parts. Sorry, but I don't recall the correct replacement part number although I can say that the precise model is no longer in production. Fortunately a local outlet that I have used for over 30 years had a close match in stock and supplied me with around 10 of them (including postage) for little more than RS Spares and others wanted for one! | ||
| David Michael Leedy Experienced User Username: dleedy Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2011 |
Brian, Jan & All: I Cant tell you how impressed with the comprehensive responses received from my inquiry. The Australian Rolls Royce Forum is a fantastic resource and I am honored to be a part of it. Owning a Rolls Royce can be considered a challenge, in addition to an obsession, but having like minded people to discuss the tribulations and resolutions is a gift. Thank you so much. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 290 Registered: 5-2012 |
David When confronted with the same problem as yourself I took the path of stripping the whole door, re-lubricating all the parts, re-assembling them and checking out the wiring with a meter. This is really not a difficult job. After close on 40 years the grease in the gearbox will be like sticky soap. It is really worthwhile taking the opportunity to refurbish the entire mechanism. You may well find, as was the case in my 74 SY-I that no parts need replacing. Freeing sticking brushes in the motors and re-lubing the gearboxes may be all that is required. If you do need parts you can use some cord to tie the window up so you can still use your car while you are waiting for the parts to be delivered. (After taping up any exposed wires) Removing the door cards and winding mechanisms is well covered in the workshop manual. The basic sequence is disconnect the battery, remove the door card, then the door lock push button, the wood trim and peel off the plastic vapor barrier. The winding mechanism is in three parts - the gearbox/chain drive, motor and brake solenoid. Remove the solenoid in-situ to facilitate easier removal of the winding mechanism then remove the top plate and leather strap that secures the top of the chain drive to the door. Tape the window so that it will not slide down it's runners and remove the bolt that secures it to the chain drive. Finally undo the two bolts located at the bottom of the door. Tilt the mechanism to the rear of the door and carefully remove it. (sorry about all this - got carried away, but it does demonstrate that re-furbing the window winders is not rocket science) For the reason Jan mentioned you can get reduced voltage at the motor, or none at all. I found on my car that re-lubing the gearbox and chain gave more than satisfactory results except for the rear passenger door farthest from the drivers door. I implemented RT's mod on this door. If you are not familiar with electrics RT's mod may seem a little daunting however the principle is straightforward. The motor is replaced with the input side of a relay and an external power feed is applied to the output side of the relay. It is usually found that the heavier duty wire that powers the cigar lighter still carries sufficient amperage to fully power the motor, which negates the need of running a new power lead from the fusebox. If you do go ahead with this make sure you do not snag and crack the window when removing the winding mechanism from the door. The other point to remember is, if using RT's mod, to use the existing earth wire for the return from the input side of the relay, otherwise you will lose the functionality of the isolator switch on the drivers door. Remember to take loads of photos and to label wires as you disconnect them. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 593 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff (or other SY-One-Series Owners), I'm curious if there is something different about how the wood door caps are configured on your cars than my SY-Two-Series. I have never found the need to remove the door caps because the leather covered door panel simply drops out from below the "holding ledge" on the door caps on my cars. Is the interface between the door caps and the door panel significantly different between the two series? It doesn't look all that different, unlike the dashboard. Brian | ||
| Geoff Wootton Prolific User Username: dounraey Post Number: 292 Registered: 5-2012 |
Hi Brian It appears that in this particular instance the door card / wood cap configuration is the same. The door card simply drops out from below the wood cap in the same way as on the SY-II. The reason I said the wood door caps need to be removed is to gain access to the leather strap that secures the top of the chain drive to the door, as part of the procedure for removing the winder mechanism. The reason I think it is a good idea to do a complete overhaul when repairing the windows is that if you replace the motor only then your replacement/refurbed motor is constantly being overloaded by having to drive a stiff and sticky mechanism. Much better to do the whole job once you have got the door card off, particularly as it is so simple. Incidentally, the leather strap on my drivers door had perished allowing the top of the chain drive to float free. I made a fresh one up from an off-cut from a local leather supplier. Does the SY-II use this support method at the top of the door as well? Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 594 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, To tell the truth I don't know this for certain, but I suspect it does. When I ripped the motor/transmission/brake assembly out of the one back door I left the guide rails and chain in the door and swinging. I could tell they weren't bolted down to anything at the top, but because they didn't fall I could also tell they were suspended somehow. The two rear door panels remain off, as does all the chrome trim on all the doors. I want to replace all the speakers in the car and didn't want to have to take everything apart again to do so. I may have to take one of the door caps off just to see what's what up there. Brian |
