| Author | Message | ||
     Gavan Evans Experienced User Username: gavan Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2006 |
I removed my key from the large set I carry around so that I don't damage the cylinder by the weight - and promptly lost the key! Does anyone know who I can contact with the chassis number to my 72 Shadow? I'm in Melbourne. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1451 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ah Gavan - You have picked the scab off a rather nasty sore. If the car had ever been to York Motors in Sydney a record of the key and in fact a duplicate key would have been available except that York Motors when taken over, was filleted and disposed of to Melbourne, the recipients, or the carriers, or God, simply threw the considerable stock of keys in that weeks trash carrier! Can I inject the unhelpful barb to the effect that I cannot believe you would not have taken the precaustion of having duplicate keys cut when you acquired the vehicle. The original build sheets for the car are available from the RREC in the UK who as agents for the Rolls-Royce Foundation, will copy them for a fee and despatch them to you poste haste. Hopefully, the key number is still on the original invoice for the car. The Lady who works this magic and I joke not, imagining a needle in the veritable hay stack that she administers, is Barbara Westlake. She can be called remembering that London is about 9 hours behind us, on 0011441327811788 or her email address is barbarawestlake@rrec.org.uk. I prefer to call herso that I can give her my credit card number which I do not like to publicise on the internet and give her my email address. The documents usually arrive in a couple of weeks. You should budget on about AUD 80. Along with getting duplicate keys cut you should have ordered the build documents since they are a great record for the car and great material to ponder and argue over on cold nights by the fire with an understanding friend and a good single malt! They are also very persuasive documents when you may come to sell the car! The possibly practical and very effective solution is to get a well established locksmith who can poke his magic probe into your ignition key lock read some figures and go away and cut you a new key (preferably 2 or three). The ideal approach (in my opinion) would be to remove the entire switch box, the procedure for which is covered in Tee One Topics, remove the ignition lock and take it to your locksmith for overhaul and manufacture of some new keys. Just to confuse the issue further, do ensure that the ignition key combination and the door locks are the same and remain so. So often I see cars with one key for the door and another for the ignition one or the other with a gross 'vee' files in the end to remind the driver which to use to get going!! I assume you have a handbook for the car which you have read, In which case you will know that the car was originally supplied with two pairs of keys. One set were 'master' keys that opened every lock including the glove box (where did that term come from?) and the other opened only the door locks andthe ignition switch. The latter set were known as 'valet' keys and allow 'the fellow' outside the Dorchester to be given keys to park the car but not pinch your tiara stored in the glove box! Apparently the difference in the two keys was the thickjness of the blank so my very favourite locksmith tells me. And these blanks are still available. Hopefully after all this spray you will get the lock system sorted out, finished up with master and valet keys and give sets of them to your wife/partner/doctor/solicitor/ confesser as appropriate so that you can not worry further. Lastly, since you have obviously been chastised over operating your Shadow with a large bunch of keys hanging on the switch box you will want to know that the Factory foresaw your problem and supplied a very nicely moulded rubber key fob suitably monogrammed with the appropriate Marque logo! I don't apologise for this long answer but it just may activate some appropriate brain cells in other owners and save our cars!! Good luck !! PS This operation on a Toyota Camry with electronic gizmos will cost you $3500 I am advised!! | ||
| Brian Vogel Prolific User Username: guyslp Post Number: 140 Registered: 6-2009 |
Gavan, Also be sure to check your Owner's Handbook if you have one. Mine came with a plastic cover and at the very back was a plastic pocket with a card that listed the original paint colors and several other things, including, I believe, the key code. I will warn you, though, that having keys cut by key code for cars as old as ours, and with wear on the locks/ignition, does not always immediately result in a functional key. Often a locksmith will have to do a bit of tweaking after the fact. Brian | ||
| Bob Reynolds Experienced User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2012 |
Flying Spares and Introcar will cut keys if you give them the chassis number of the car. I bought spare keys from both of these firms, but as Brian says, neither of them fit properly without a good deal of wiggling about. And yet they look identical to the original key when placed side-by-side. | ||
| Bob Reynolds Experienced User Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2012 |
The answer is, of course, to fit a remote-control to the central locking system and throw the keys away! These can be bought off ebay for less than the price of a replacement RR key! | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Grand Master Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 349 Registered: 5-2007 |
Not quite as easy as that Bob; opening the doors maybe but starting the car! I've just installed a remote central locking unit - just 3 wires on the passenger door switch circuit (more room for the black box unit thingy on this side) - and this does indeed solve the problem of old keys snapping off in the door locks or the boot - I've experienced both !! My advice here is to go for a simple 2 button remote - you run one extra wire (connected from the unlock wire) to the glovebox boot unlock switch (handily on the passenger side) and all five locks work at once; ignore all the extra stuff about flashing the indicators, opening the windows, making the bed and doing your tax return - the central locking circuit is both elegant and robust; it is well designed and you want to interfere with it as little as possible. Literally 3 wires (and three standard 5-pin relays) to be connected to the existing circuit with Lucar connectors and if the unit fails the door switches still work on original default. Bill's note about a key that does both -- doors & ignition -- (plus the glovebox) is intriguing. The detail that the only difference is the thickness of the blank is priceless. Gavan's best option is definitely to get a set (or three !!!) of the originals; there are locksmiths who have or can order the blanks to make duplicates in Australia. | ||
| Brian Vogel Prolific User Username: guyslp Post Number: 141 Registered: 6-2009 |
Two small bits: The difference between the master and valet keys (leaving aside the shape of the head on the key) is not in the thickness of the blank but instead the amount cut out to create the topmost and bottommost grooves on the right side of the key if it's held with the teeth facing the floor. The valet key has a somewhat thinner top groove and a significantly thinner bottom groove. This prevents it from being inserted in the locks where wider "slide guides" are used: the glove box and the boot/trunk. Having recently had additional sets made for a new-to-me SY series car, one shouldn't "wait forever." The key blanks from several companies that make them have now been "obsoleted" since these type of locks have not been in production for quite a while. My locksmith had to order NOS blanks from within the "locksmith network" since they're not available from the actual makers of blanks anymore. The clock is ticking on the arrival of "made of unobtainium" time. Brian | ||
| Gavan Evans Experienced User Username: gavan Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks very much for the replies. I do have the original key, somewhere, but can't find it. I also have all the papers and went to the RREC in England, met Barbara and have photos of my then 2 1/2 yo son with AX 201. Unfortunately, the key number isn't listed, but I'll double check. | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 132 Registered: 6-2005 |
Here is a photo of the two keys. The owner's key on the left, note the wider right hand slot.  | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1452 Registered: 4-2003 |
All very helpful. Brian thanks for clearing up the thickness bit that I dropped casually. Given the vernacular of our locksmiths and my hearing my message was the thickness of the key. Clearly John Kilkenny's picture shows your description. And to Jeffrey - clearly I left a question mark out. I confess that I have meant to compare the keys for my Spur but have not got around to it but did notice that the 'difference' in thickness of the blank was certainly not apparent. I was not aware that Flying Spares could provide keys but it is good news. As to wiggling I suggest this is again worn tumblers being operated by a new key. The lock overhaul then is the answer. And for Gavin. The set of build sheets I have is for my S2. The key number is shown on the invoice from Bentley Motors to the shipping agents under accessories.. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2719 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, you will know Class locksmiths in Wollongong Street, Fyshwick. They carry all postwar blanks until the 40,000-series SZ cars, and will adjust them to be wiggle-free. They have partner businesses in Sydney etc too. Blanks for the earlier cars are no problem, but for my Continetal R (42,500-series SZ) Class can't help so I have ordered extra spares from Introcar at 25 quid each – not bad. The remote key was a little more expensive, but at least I have a few now. Incidentally the valet and master keys are all of the same thickness. Just one channel differs, and copies of masters and valets may be made from either type. Often a car will have a pristine valet key, and it may be best to make a copy from that. I always keep the original keys in a safe place and only use the copies. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2721 Registered: 4-2003 |
In John's picture you will see the different channel size at the top right. If he were to photograph the keys turned over, then you may see other differences in the channels. RT. | ||
| John Kilkenny Prolific User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 133 Registered: 6-2005 |
Nope, both the same  | ||
| Brian Vogel Prolific User Username: guyslp Post Number: 142 Registered: 6-2009 |
Also, two more documentary photos. The valet key is original but the master key is a copy of a copy. Heaven only knows where the original Yale key is now.  | ||
| Brian Vogel Prolific User Username: guyslp Post Number: 143 Registered: 6-2009 |
Now, the flip side:  | ||
| Jordan Devine New User Username: jordan_devine Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2007 |
I've got 2 driver keys and one service key. The Yale original key has a period keyring, and the Yale service key has a Bentley Sydney keyring. My second driver key is a copy, a Silca key with a modern Bentley keyring. The copy key requires a little jiggle for the drivers door, and no jiggle for the ignition. The Yale driver key is silky smooth.  The part number a for blank key is UB70981 and comes in the packaging in the picture. I think I'll head to Class locksmiths in Fyshwick this weekend to get another backup. I also need a spare key for my 15" alloy hub caps, so hopefully they are available in Fyshwick as well. I'll let people know. Blank keys are available from ebay, prices are a bit funny - from $11.77 per key to $345.95. Some sellers do try it on! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2722 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Jordan, When I was last at Class I had wheel cover keys made for a 1989 Turbo R. That was back in May, so I hope that they have all the blanks still ! Ask for Graham. RT. | ||
| Jordan Devine New User Username: jordan_devine Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2007 |
Thanks Richard. Guess where I went today, Class Locksmiths in Fyshwick, Canberra.  Graham was not there, but the young boy Thomas knew where the RR&B keys were. They had a few driver keys in stock, as well as the key for my spare set of Turbo R 15" alloys, not the 18" Conti T wheels currently on the car. And the cost? Much better than $345.95 from ebay, $8.50 for the driver's key including cutting, and $7.50 for the hub cap key. I got 2 of each.  Here they are, an ilco key for the driver and a Silca key for the wheels.  Yes, that is a ridiculously large 'B' keyring. It matches my yellow wheels. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2723 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jords, As you are now aware, I mixed up the streets. Class Locksmiths are in Kembla Street not Wollongong Street next door of course. Sorry. R. |
