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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 05:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Has anybody seen this on youtube?
This conversion surley must have cost considerable funds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagEVkeuoNE

cheers
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Hubert Kelly
Experienced User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 07:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Robert, I have watched this clip several times, I like the ideal, but I definitely wont do it to my current Shadow (1968). A guy about 30 minutes from me, had planned to put a 3liter bmw engine into a 1978 shadow, I have no ideal how it went. Id buy a conversion(diesel) if the price is right.
HK
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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 07:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Hubert,I am of the same feeling,like you I wouldn't do it either.One has to appriciate the problem solving and engineering thats gone into this type of conversion.Like one of the comments said. "You won't hear the clock ticking in this One"
cheers
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1131
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 09:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I do not think this is a silly as it sounds especially if one of the modern Eurodiesels is installed. Diesel "stink" is a thing of the past now low-sulphur fuel is mandatory and the modern diesels do not smoke, clatter or shake like the traditional diesel of times gone by thanks to sequential fuel injection and more sophisticated engine management systems.

The VW/Audi large turbo-diesels would be worth evaluating as potential replacement engines. The fact that VW own Bentley gives a distant family connection to ease concerns about losing heritage with a replacement engine
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Bob Reynolds
New User
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This is hideous. Sounds like an old tractor. Completely destroys the principle of the car.
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Niclas Olovsson
New User
Username: nicce

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2011
Posted on Friday, 24 August, 2012 - 07:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I must admit that I am a bit baffled, considering the effort and cost to do this I can not understand why they used a such old diesel engine, it sounds like a pre-commomrail engine from a lorry or tractor... ...or the clip is very old...
(I assume that breaking system and drive train has been properly adjusted and we are not seeing a engine in a stationary Shadow...)

Cheers, Niclas
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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 25 August, 2012 - 06:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree David.. the new diesels are much more refined than than the old knocking stinky traditional ones.I have always had a niggling concern that modern diesel engines just arn't as durable as they once were, even with proper servicing.My brother, a contractor at the mines has a fleet of new diesels some Toyota some Mazada all are twincab traybacks, all with verious kilometers on the clock and all have let him down. He tells me the engines age very quickly and start to leak,shake and the turbo's well thats a different story.His most reliable is a 1992 non turbo Hilux diesel that travels 600 kilometers a day 5 days a week most weeks,and has 660.000 Ks on the clock, but she has always been the old smelly type diesels.

I just love the old 6.7 V8 and its lazy quiet way it gets the job done

cheers
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1132
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 25 August, 2012 - 07:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert, I have a 1993 4runner with the same engine - the only serious problem is that the cylinder head is prone to cracking between the valve seats around the 250,000Km mark. It is not an engine I would ever consider putting in a R-R/B vehicle under any circumstances but I can see future circumstances where a major engine failure and unavailability of R-R/B replacement engines will result in serious consideration of alternative engines.

The question will be is it better to install a non-standard engine to keep the car on the road or sell it as a "donor" parts car.
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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 40
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 25 August, 2012 - 08:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

hi David

Its sure "food" for thought in years to come.


cheers
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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 41
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 25 August, 2012 - 06:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sorry for the short post..
had to run off to work pronto...
Yes l guess when parts that are "now readily available" become unobtainable, these options will sure keep these classic's on the road.

cheers
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Hubert Kelly
Experienced User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Saturday, 25 August, 2012 - 08:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi everyone, lets just say for the argument sake, one were to put a diesel(modern engine) into a Shadow. In relation to the braking system and height control system, will a master cylinder cylinder off say a DS420 LIMO be good enough to meet braking needs?. Will a pump system similar to the air suspension on a Range Rover be adequate enough to work the height control rams?. The space for the master cylinder looks limited under the hood.Its a project I might consider when I win the lotto.
hk
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1133
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 26 August, 2012 - 08:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A simple belt-driven standard hydraulic pump with a flow divider operating as an intensifier to provide the necessary high pressure will replace the camshaft driven pumps on the V8 engine regardless of the engine replacement.

Basic well-tried and proven hydraulic technology.
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Hubert Kelly
Experienced User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Sunday, 26 August, 2012 - 08:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David, thanks very much for explaining that, in my own mind I thought the brakes and height control system might be the biggest problem.
hk
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 381
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 30 August, 2012 - 09:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Some 20 years ago I had an XJ12 Jaguar which had a diesel engine fitted. The V12, 5.3 litre lump had been replaced with a straight 4, 3.3 litre normally aspirated engine out of a fork lift/dumper truck mated to a 4-speed manual gearbox. Although it ran well and cost far less to run it had to go as the local plod used the lack of a second exhaust pipe as an excuse to stop and harass me. On one 5 mile run I was stopped twice with the second lot admitting that they'd heard of the first stop over their radio!

However I've heard of a (?urban myth?) bare Rolls chassis being driven around the Crewe facility which is allegedly fitted with a Rolls Royce designed and made diesel engine. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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James Feller
Prolific User
Username: james_feller

Post Number: 224
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, 31 August, 2012 - 09:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

as a matter of fact Jan, I heard this too wrt to RR looking at diesel technology in the 70's. I have read that while they investigated it it of course was deemed 1. inappropriate for a RR as in the clattery noisy and the smoky exhaust most diesel powerplants suffered from back then and 2. a more human concern as RR thought owners of their cars refuelling over with trucks and lorrys in smelly oily forcourts of fuels stations was not something their customers would appreciate....
as we know this has all changed now and diesel technology is amazing. We have a 4.4 twin turbo Range Rover that goes like hell and has immense power and torque, like nothing ive expirenced, the weight of the Rangie to this powerplant is nothing and the 4wd will outperfom most cars. The benefit is very high fuel effecincy and the engine is smooth powerful and quiet, not to mention makes a faboulous V8 growl! they only time and I mean the only time you would pick the engine as a diesel is on first start up from cold, yes its a bit clattry but only for a second or so....so it sounds like a crewe V8 starting from cold...as we know till the hydualic pumps on our 6.75 V8s get oil and up to pressure our V8's also are a 'little' clattery...
Would I swap to a diesel in my crewe cars...no... but if I had access to the Land Rover/Jag 4.4 twin turbo V8 ONLY then would I perhaps think about it.

J
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1134
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 31 August, 2012 - 06:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The story of Rolls-Royce's experimentation with rotary [Wankel] diesel engines is in the following thread:

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/9055.html
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Hubert Kelly
Experienced User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Saturday, 01 September, 2012 - 01:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Speaking of diesel powered engines in a Rolls Royce, could a Shadow run on the old, TVO mixture of petrol and paraffin?
hk
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 382
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Saturday, 01 September, 2012 - 02:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It probably could, but it would pink like buggery without major changes to the timing and perhaps a different grade of spark plugs. 40 odd years ago I worked for a car breakers which owned a Ferguson (?little grey Fergy?) tractor meant to run on neat paraffin, but it was usually run on neat petrol for 2 reasons:
1) There was usually a surfeit of petrol to hand in the fuel tanks of the cars brought in for scrapping/breaking (I rarely had to buy any as I got any extra that was going)
and
2) The special (?) spark plugs were several beer tokens each when 'ordinary' plugs could be had for GBP1 for a set of 4!
However, here in Blighty paraffin is now more expensive than petrol at GBP1.50/litre and more while petrol is GBP1.30-1.40
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Hubert Kelly
Experienced User
Username: h_kelly

Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2012
Posted on Saturday, 01 September, 2012 - 02:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Jan, it was something I just wondered.I have no idea how much paraffin is this side of the pond?. Kerosene is about 80 cent a litre, with petrol 1.60/1.70 per litre.
hk
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Tim North
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.163.1.179
Posted on Saturday, 01 September, 2012 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Petrol/kerosene; the same thing to all intents and purposes.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 142
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 08:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Petrol (gasoline in the USA) and kerosene (paraffin in the UK) are most certainly NOT the same thing to all intents and purposes !!!!!!!!!

Peter
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 143
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 08:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Further information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene

Peter
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Peter Talbot
Prolific User
Username: squerryes

Post Number: 144
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 08:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The little grey Fergie tractor (of which I have fond memories) had a split fuel tank, one tank for petrol and one tank for TVO (tractor vaporising oil). TVO is NOT the same as neat paraffin/kerosene as it is a mixture of paraffin with back added aromatics. The little grey Fergie was started on petrol then switched to TVO when the engine was hot. It was vital to change back to petrol a some time before stopping the engine or one was faced with the task of draining and flushing the fuel lines as the engine would not start on TVO.

Peter
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 383
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Anyone who rode on any of the (now defunct) hovercraft from London, Dover, etc would be able to tell you that they stank of paraffin/kerosene as that is what their engines ran on.

Although the Channel crossing was about the same duration as the Chunnel railway it wasn't as comfortable - especially in bad weather. Unfortunately they needed the financial support of selling 'duty frees' to be economical. The day EU law changed in that regard was the day they were taken out of service and scrapped or sold off.

Interestingly most of the earlier space rockets, Saturn series in particular, were powered by hundreds of tonnes of kerosene and a similar amount of LOX. This continued right up to the Shuttle series for the main engines, although the 'lift motors' were solid fuel rockets simply strapped onto them.

Had Rolls Royce designed them I'm sure they would have been more elegant, but MUCH more complex!
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Tim North
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.163.1.179
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 04:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oops. Meant to say paraffin/kerosene the same!!!

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 385
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, 02 September, 2012 - 07:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just remembered: Many years ago I had a Moggy Thou Traveller (Morris Minor Estate) that I ran for a while on a 50:50 mix of petrol and paraffin. Even with the full leaded fuel of the days it would pink if pushed too hard. Fortunately the 1098cc A series engine was very forgiving of fuel quality having been originally designed just after WWII when petrol supplies were dicy at best.

No matter how impecunious I may be at times it's not something I would be tempted to try in my Shadow.
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bobuk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.127.20
Posted on Monday, 27 May, 2013 - 07:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have just come across these posts
Here are my expert views ( 50 years of car work )

Kerosene parrafin or ERK cannot be used in road diesels because of no fuel duty so in UK only derv can be used in diesels at 1.40 per litre
petrol is 1.32.

The tax man will prosecute in the UK and people have ended paying back duty going back years and they will sieze the car

The comment about durability of modern diesels is correct because when the common rail systems gives trouble then any possible savings in fuel costs have just been well and truely spent plus probaly a bit more.

They only reason to fit a diesel is to save money.

All diesel have sequential fuel injection-- you must put the feul in the right cylinder at the right time ---- Dave

The extra problems of the brake system make this a very expensive conversion which would buy a lot of petrol.

I had a Citreon 1.9 Diesel and it was really good I sold it to a work mate he killed at 250,000 miles This car had a rotary pump not common rail.

Strangely when I work for the Police the same engine fitted to Peugeot 306 police cars used to blow the head gasket every 50,000 miles however peugeot gave us free parts to keep the fleet buyer sweet, we had 20 cars so they could ill afford to upset him.

If my engine (17768 matching the chassis no ) were to go bandy then I would either fix it or maybe change the engine for like or GM 350 V8 or maybe a petrol V6 as long as it makes 250 ft/lbs of torque

The brakes I would use a citreon 7 piston swash plate pump form a french spec DS.( not the UK spec because those had less hydraulics than the french one.

One would supply both circuits

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 477
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 29 May, 2013 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As long as you avoid the newer common rail or DI diesel engines you can usually run on high %ages of ordinary cooking oil - liquid veg only of course. I've owned several (and still own 2) of these old type diesels which I run almost exclusively on a mix of waste veg oil, used sump oil and used ATF. After coarse filtering I add 5-10% unleaded, allow to settle in 220 litre drum for a couple of weeks and finally filter through 2 water filters at 20 and 5 microns. The caveat is that the injector pump has to be a Bosch or one made to the same specifications under licnece from Bosch. The Lucas ones have a 50% or more probability of leaking and/or failing due to poor attention to detail or production control.

A Toyota 2.2 litre turbo charged engine in a 1.6 tonne people carrier can tow a 1 tonne caravan for hundreds of miles at the full legal speed and still return 25mpg and just over 30mpg running solo at higher speeds. Around town this will drop to the same as towing at motorway speeds.

In case you're interested, the UK government have made it legal to use veg oil as a fuel (fresh or waste) up to 2,500 litres per year. However if you go over this limit you will owe the revenoors the duty on every litre so used and/or produced!
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George Constantine
Experienced User
Username: theo

Post Number: 26
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Monday, 27 November, 2017 - 05:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

why does a 1982 rolls royce silver shadow run cold
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Larry Kavanagh
Prolific User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 113
Registered: 5-2016
Posted on Monday, 27 November, 2017 - 06:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Maybe the engine temperature sensor switch is malfunctioning or the thermostat has been removed. Best way to check engine temperature is with a laser thermometer, if it shows that the engine temperature sensor is reading wrongly then replace the sensor. Never drive without a thermostat. Post any technical questions in the relevant technical section for better chance of assistance.

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