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chrisespiritu
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 66.90.129.179
Posted on Wednesday, 30 July, 2008 - 11:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If anyone knows a way to manualy open the trunk (or boot) we need some help. the only key we have is broken into the trunks keyhole. tried to get a locksmith to open trunk but they couldent get the key out. next step is to possibly try to hotwire the car to another battery to get some juice to unlock the trunk. but we're really hoping to find an easier way. please contact me if you can help. thanks

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
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Username: david_gore

Post Number: 813
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 30 July, 2008 - 17:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If you have to "hot-wire" the car, the best place to do this is to connect the jump positive lead onto the "Hot" terminal of the starter motor where the positive lead from the battery terminates and connect the negative lead to the chassis through a rear bumper bar mounting bolt.

Usual safety warnings apply, make sure the area is well-ventilated and no petrol/other combustible liquid fumes are present; do not wear rings or other jewellery on your hands; insulate the bare metal around the "hot" terminal if at all possible and use insulated rather than bare metal clamps to minimise the possibilty of short circuits. If you get a short, it will be scary, very hot and capable of considerable damage.
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 182
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 30 July, 2008 - 19:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris , the amount of power you need to open the boot is quite small.

I'd go for the fuse box and put a lead to battery side of the interior light fuse. -ve to a good earth. the handbrake shaft you pull out. Press the boot unlock button.

When you get in there, you can remove the lock and
Once the lock is apart, you can push the key out from the back, so don't damage it!
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Bill Coburn
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Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 994
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 30 July, 2008 - 20:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris unless the boot is full, consider pulling the spare wheel out, push out the tyre inlation plug in the boot floor and using a 7/16"A/F spanner undo the lower boot latch by feel.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 772
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 05:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We use a slave battery and connect with a plug into the cigar lighter socket.
But others work but may take longer!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 814
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 10:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Pat,

Good suggestion and I would run with this first - if there is a dead cell in the battery it probably will not work requiring the brute force and finesse of a heavy duty jump start connection.

What has your experience been in this situation?

Kind regatds
David
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1415
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 11:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This is surely standard issue for any home workshop. Just plug it into the lighter and go. Fused at 30A, and electrically current limited to 25A, these things will charge a flat main battery in 15 minutes enough even to start the car. They are ideal for a kid's inflatible swimming pool too, and cost very little. LEDs show the state of charge. With its 15AH Li-Ion basis, It will not only recharge that flat main battery through the lighter socket, but recharges itself from the lighter socket with a charged main battery or while driving the car, or from the mains.

RT.
Standard Helper Battery
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 183
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 16:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, I've seen a few people try the power pack, but never start a completely flat Rolls with one. It would probably be enough to open the boot though.

I've done many powered directly to the fuse box. I should have said that you do not need to use jump leads for this, just use two pieces of normal wire. (In case you don't have a cigar lighter plug, to do it Pat's way)

If you have a trickle charger , you can charge the battery the same way, although I'm wary of charging batteries in locked/closed boots etc.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1417
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 17:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul,

A friend's Turbo R had a dead flat battery a few weeks after the alternator had failed, so I bunged in a new set of bearings, diodes and regulator for him. It started after 10 minutes on my power pack. Best not too fool around in the fusebox with loose aligator leads: do it the safe and simple way. A power pack is cheaper and more convenient than a slipup.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1418
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 17:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh, and I do feel fine about charging the battery with the boot closed for a short while. I don't drive around for hours with the boot wide open just because the alternator can deliver 140 amps. Wouldn't the roads look funny if we all drove around with the boots strapped open.....
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 995
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 19:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I suppose this is not uncommon for forums, but what is Chris doing? The solutions offered are interesting, so much so that I am going to pop them in Tee One Topics, when the different views are sorted out.
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Paul Yorke
Prolific User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 184
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 20:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes Richard, that would look odd - perhaps you are suggesting that everybody should tow their cars around with the air conditioning on to dispel explosive gasses when charging batteries. Now THAT would be odd - Or maybe they should build a garage with fans at one end and extractors at the other to simulate the air movement of your car driving around.

I find it so strange, the analogies you come out with, - I must be too isolated on this little Island to even imagine the 'funny' leaps of logic that you come out with.

Perhaps it would just make sense to open the boot???

Somebody would have to be a real prat to fly in the face of the worldwide knowledge that "lead acid batteries give off explosive gasses when charged". To advise others to ignore this fact would be idiotic! With a nice source of ignition placed in the boot in the form of a boot light switch, maybe you should get a job with Al Quaida!

I sincerely hope you never have a battery explode (or rather implode, then explode) in your face because you are charging it in a confined space. I've seen what happens and would not recommend it.
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 185
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 20:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill, I was wondering what happened to Chris to. Hope he hasn't locked himself in! :-)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 773
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 22:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David and all, The dead cell and dead flat battery that has been flat for weeks. I have always found will not take more than say a 5 to 8 amp current at the start if you are lucky enough to get that high discharge.
Of course if the battery is going to recover then the amps will rise over time,
this would give more than enough time to carry out the unlocking of the boot etc.

Hope this makes sence,if not please Ask.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 996
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 31 July, 2008 - 23:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In reply to Paul. All very topical. I saw advice somewhere on the Web that if somebody locks you in the boot, kick out the tailights and wave your hand out the hole. Someone is bound to see it! This will come in handy I just know!

Tee One dealt with a jammed lock - empty boot years ago with my suggested spanner through the boot floor which nobody here has even acknowledged!! Oh well, the problem there was a 1/4" nut had somehow got into the latch mechanism and jammed it!

But hats off to our faceless web man who on our recent Westward trek, he in his father's ancient T Bentley and on arrival at the umpteenth hotel for the night the boot lock was inoperative. I was consulted and of course offered the floor access suggestion. This was ruled somewhat impractical as his Father had achieved a world record cramming contest in the same area!

Our faceless one then by a careful analysis of where everything was (it had the early pivoting axled lock)carefully drilled a hole in the lid behind the number plate poked a skewer in and unlocked it to tumultous cheers!
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 774
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 01:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill C you say:
"Chris unless the boot is full, consider pulling the spare wheel out, push out the tyre inlation plug in the boot floor and using a 7/16"A/F spanner undo the lower boot latch by feel".

Well unless I am going ga ga the boot trunk has to be open to get the spare wheel down first.
It seems that the hole in the wheel does not lign up with the centre of the boot floor hole.
If it did I far I know the shadow boot mods and later models had the plastic shroud that make the two 7/16 lower catch fixing bolts impossible to undo.
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 187
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 05:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill, you are correct , if it was a jammed lock as yours was, that's almost the only way in. ( Unless your boot lock has not been modified . . . but I will not share that on here! )

Pat, you can get the spare wheel down and out, but not easily :-( . But I suppose that is a good thing :-)

Bill, a car with no key and a car with central boot unlocking is another matter all together :-) Doing it from inside the car takes about 2 mins to do - and no dirty hands or crawling around under the car is certainly a bonus!
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John Kilkenny
Frequent User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 64
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 10:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A battery being charged will not start gassing until about 90% charged by which time the charging current will be greatly reduced and gassing minimal.

However it is probably a good idea to leave the boot open when an external charger is being used even though the boot light is wasting half an amp.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 815
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 11:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

To avoid scrolling problems with your large image size in your last post; I am removing your post and re-submitting it with smaller images [just resized your images to 640 x 480 pixels [5.42cm x 4.06cm].


Thanks Paul. Patrick you are not alone in your appreciation. The approach is to unbolt the carrier at the bottom of the lowering spindel and drop the lot on the floor. Pull out the spare wheel put a potato sack on the carrier for comfort punch out the rubber plug and grope! Apparently later designs have introduced anti-Coburn measures but as they say where there is a need???}

BBC 1

BBC 2

BBC 3



(Message edited by david_gore on 01 August 2008)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 816
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 11:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Pat,

Re the dead cell problem in a flat battery [i.e. full short from plate collapse] - I have had a couple of these over the years and could not start the cars with a full-size, fully charged jump battery unless I isolated the dead battery first by disconnecting one of the leads. If a dead cell proved to be the case for Chris, disconnecting the battery would be required before any jump start power source would work - they work fine with an ordinary flat battery but not with a battery with a dead short internally. In this case, the battery feed on the starter motor would have to be disconnected to isolate the battery in the absence of Bill's access technique.

(Message edited by david_gore on 01 August 2008)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 775
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 14:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David.
With one full short within a battery cell that has 5 good cells will leave a battery with ten volts.
OK it will take an instant discharge and gas profusely if connected to a slave, but not enough to stop opening the boot catch with the seleniod in the first place with ten volts.

A good slave battery and jump leads well connected are needed for starting any car without its own battery.
A SS more so due to the distance of supply from battery and amps needed.
David re: the disconnecting the main feed to the starter,I have a feeling that other circuts may still be connected but I may well be thinking other types outside the box.
Phones maybe!

Bill the good living is showing!
great pictures!
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Paul Yorke
Prolific User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 188
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 16:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, I've had that problem jump starting cars with 'dead' ,not flat, Batteries many a time as well. Funnily enough I Had an SII yesterday with a brand new Varta Lead acid battery and an existing Yellow Top gel Auxiliary battery. Wouldn't Jump, wouldn't charge as expected (very low draw), Checked the connections, earths, etc, disconnected the Aux battery, still wouldn't even turn over. Used a vehicle instead of a slave, still wouldn't turn over! undid the battery earth and BAM, straight away. A brand new Varta, who would have thought?

I've never had a problem jumping the boot CDL at the fuse box, no matter how bad the battery was.

If for any reason, somebody is having that problem on a Shadow, they could Hybrid Bill and my idea and reach in and undo the battery butterfly nut instead.

Bill, "Good living showing" be damned - I hope I can mange that when I reach your age! (I'm just wondering where to get and keep a potato sack :-) )
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 189
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 01 August, 2008 - 16:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

PS -

John K - what about a battery with a damaged cell, this cell will gas readily on charging and discharging.

ALL with later cars (especially 1989 on), - Don't be tempted to boost charge / boost start your cars. Damage to electronics occur when boosting batteries connected to the car. Even when jump starting a completely flat car, leave the slave connected for at least 5 mins before and 5 mins again once it is running. If you can, it is far better to trickle charge and come back later.
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John Kilkenny
Frequent User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 65
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Saturday, 09 August, 2008 - 13:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul Y - Single cell faults usually show up as low resistance caused by insulator breakdown, or high resistance due to corrosion of internal connections.

In either case it will be pretty obvious that the battery is faulty and needs to be replaced.

Because a low resistance cell will reduce battery voltage, the alternator will try to correct this, but gassing will occur in the good cells not the faulty one.

With an increased resistance cell the battery voltage may be OK for low loads but cranking power will be reduced or insufficient. Gassing will generally not occur.

Because many of our cars are not used regularly, normal self discharge will lead to increased sulphation, an irreversible change to the plate coating which reduces charge capacity and eventually causes battery failure through clogged or distorted plates.

For this reason it is important to maintain the battery in a charged state, either through regular use or a trickle charger.
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Frequent User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, 09 August, 2008 - 18:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I can highly recommend the CTEK CS7000 trickle charger as fitted to some of the later Bentleys - although the Bentley branded one is (much)more expensive and will set you back an extra AU$170 for the customised plug. Which incidentally the factory mounted in the Fuel Door. One hopes they knew what they were doing with that one...mine is in the boot of the ('74) Shadow.

The CTEK branded one comes with a range of extra plugs - including one for the cigarette lighter for around $25 - a useful extra to have had in cases like this one.


You just connect one end of the permanent connector to the positive terminal nut and one end to the chassis and leave it in the boot. When you want to charge you just plug it in - no mucking around disconnecting the battery.

It works by monitoring the battery with a regular pulse and has a range of automatic settings which provide optimal power according to the battery's state. This apparently (it is claimed) minimises the possibility of gassing.

There's lots of info out there on Google about why is this is a genuine advance in battery charging technique attested to by various automotive bodies...trust whom you will (or not).

Jeff

(Message edited by jefmac2003 on 09 August 2008)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 777
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, 09 August, 2008 - 19:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Johm K.you say Because a low resistance cell will reduce battery voltage, the alternator will try to correct this, but gassing will occur in the good cells not the faulty one.

Regarding the running up of the engine with a flat battery or damaged type cell, would it not be best to check for the cause first?

The topic was to be able to open the boot with a flat battery!
Not run the engine with possible self distruction of other electrics.
On types of single cell failures with most modern type batterys the failed cell will gas profusely before the other cells reach a overcharged state.
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John Kilkenny
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Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 66
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Saturday, 09 August, 2008 - 23:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Patrick,
You are right, we are off topic.

Regarding the low resistance cell, Ohm's Law tells us that as the resistance decreases the dissipated energy also decreases until for a resistance of zero (i.e. a short circuit) no energy at all is dissipated and the other cells will receive a higher voltage.

I agree that in the case of a flat battery it is preferable to first determine the cause, but if the cause is not obvious (eg interior light left on) a lot of us would just put it on a charger.
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Paul Yorke
Prolific User
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 191
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 10 August, 2008 - 04:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

John K, Oh Ok.

I always assumed that when I was using a high load discharge tester on a battery and watched the cells for excessive gassing, it was the single cell bubbling profusely that was faulty, not the other five.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 778
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Sunday, 10 August, 2008 - 08:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul I agree re: "I always assumed that when I was using a high load discharge tester on a battery and watched the cells for excessive gassing, it was the single cell bubbling profusely that was faulty, not the other five".

Or if the battery was on a high charge to start with and one cell was gassing then that confirmed the cell had failed.

The electric milk floats with many banks of batterys with each cell interconected externally it was common practice to bridge the failed cell and carry on untill another one failed months later.
Now Bob will fill in on them!
Now we are completely of topic.

(Message edited by pat lockyer on 10 August 2008)
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Paul Yorke
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Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 192
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, 10 August, 2008 - 18:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pat, didn't they melt out the bubbling cell and nick a good one from the old battery sitting in the corner? Or was that OVER dedicated cost cutting?

Getting back on topic . . .

What's happened to Chris? ? ?

A: Shouting for help in his garage, still laying under his car with his arm stuck in the spare wheel hole.

B: Dropped his jump battery on his toe and is stuck in hospital.

C: shorted out his leads, set fire to the car, in the garage, attached to his house, with his computer in, and burnt them all down?

D:Decided to forget about it completely and leave the car there for his descendants!

Hmmmm , I wonder.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 819
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 11 August, 2008 - 17:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I suspect option D however I am very appreciative of Chris's original request as it has resulted in a very interesting and informative discussion from our contributors.

I am awaiting the next issue of "Tee One Topics" with great interest to see how BBC summarises the contributions......[Bill, I hope you will not confine this to "Praeclarvm"]
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Bill Coburn
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Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 08 October, 2008 - 22:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David, In the gallop of time I lost track of this other than to worry about what happened to Chris. Having been recently somewhat chastised for my attitude to the casual enquirer, I have been hunting through the memory banks to recall this very case remembering 2 weeks of input from a brace of people and never hearing any outcome.

At the risk of another birching can I mention a bit of new information I have acquired but which you all know and that is the web phenomenon of trolls. There is a Wikipedia reference which is most informative and I wonder about these people - perhaps as suggested in David Gore's last remark there is some merit in having these catalysts to encourage contributrors to share their thoughts on problems. We are I say without a skerrick of shame the only worthwhile activity in the whole movement. All this coffee table book production and philosophical reflections of the intestinal by-ways of Sir Henry do absolutely nothing to prolong the life of our cars.

But still it is nice when you get the original enquirer to come back and say thanks guys that was a help! Sigh!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bob uk
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 80.6.168.241
Posted on Thursday, 09 October, 2008 - 01:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A dodgy battery can,will, maybe--- damaged other stuff.

The alternator will go on overtime, the starter will struggle and wiring to the starter will get hot etc.

And any car that does not start is a waste of space.

A battery for a Shadow is about £50 so I fit new as soon as any sign of less than good appears.

Also every vehicle I have has a spare key. Not that it is much good if the key is broken in the lock. Also stiff locks are a no-no.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 839
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 09 October, 2008 - 10:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bob,

Welcome back after a long absence.

Kind regards
David

(Message edited by david_gore on 09 October 2008)
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jake w
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 90.207.168.189
Posted on Monday, 17 November, 2008 - 20:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

great just pushed the rubber bung out of my 1982 silver spirit and got the keys out that i locked in the boot, thanks a million

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Craig Knight
Experienced User
Username: grum_ck

Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 - 09:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Iím not sure what happened to Chris, but Iím glad this post was here.
My Bentley has finally landed in Melbourne (shipped from England). Unfortunately, it would seem that even after I asked them to turn the battery switch when they packed the car, they failed to do so. The people I spoke to said they know about the battery switch, but failed to tell the last person to drive the car!? Unfortunately it was after the car had shipped that Richard Treacy told me how he had put a big sign on the steering wheel with instructions, very clever and good advice.
So the car has arrived with a flat battery, and they are unable to open the boot, IĎm guessing the alarm was going off half way across the ocean.
I have sent this information through to the shipping agents because they donít have any idea what to do (I got a message saying boot wont open, car wont role etc). It seems it is difficult to find these booster packs in Australia, but I have been told they have rigged something up. Iím trying to get details of what was done.
So thanks for another piece of useful information.
Cheers.